14 Dec 2025 05:36:01
Missed the levels debate yesterday but found it very interesting (without the need for insulting others opinions). In my opinion the championship may be a higher level than the SPL as a league but not a higher level the Rangers or Celtic. Hence why so many championship players have failed to cut it at either club. It's not so much level playing at but level of the club itself. Obviously being stuck in our league with no promotion out of it means we'll alway be in that "level" but doesn't mean we're that standard any more than if Real Madrid were somehow parachuted into it. The old firm are a higher level/standard which is why they always win. A better comparison would be to compare with Europe to see our "level". Rangers regularly make into later stages of Europa league competing well even against clubs just below elite of the top leagues. Even last year getting to quarter finals again.
That for me shows our level and standard we should be looking at.
Obviously this season we haven't because the board took the similar view of even some of our fans that the championship is better than the SPL so they must be a higher level than us. Rothwell being the prime example. Thankfully now they were forced to apologise and sacked those responsible for this lazy underestimation of the level of our club.
Sorry for the long complicated explanation but I hope it makes sense and shows why so many championship players have failed up here to reach the "level" needed to win or even challenge in our league and why so many leave and still do well down south.
That's not to say championship players can't play at our level just like many make the step up to EPL but purely being good championship players isn't good enough.
14 Dec 2025 08:26:06
Agree with the vast majority of your post Kaiser, but for me the fundamental problem is that Rangers and Celtic are subject to he ceiling in Scottish football (hence why they haven't gotten themselves out of sight, there only so far they can go).
And sadly for a long time, Scottish football relative to other smaller countries in Europe has been on the decline. I genuinely believe in 10 years Rangers and Celtic won't be Europa league teams at this rate and other countries around the world will overtake Scottish football by a mile.
The system whereby we need almost all 42 teams in the leagues to make impactful change is flawed and will see us never progress as a nation. can't even get a couple of colt teams properly up and running.
Sounds very doom and gloom but it's just my take on things. The fact we have teams playing on plastic pitches at the top of our leagues is bonkers and the officiating is amateur level to be honest.
Anyway, this a conversation at a wider level but the focus is on Rangers being at the very least the best team in the country. For what it's worth, my view on the upcoming transfer window is we should be signing experiences pros that have been about and can handle the pressure of going for a title.
14 Dec 2025 08:33:53
2 excellent written posts Kaiser and Scotty ?
And agreed with both of you.
14 Dec 2025 08:44:05
Two very good posts.
14 Dec 2025 09:17:04
Thanks guys. I agree Scott it going to be hard to get back esp with new Europe format dropping our runners up to conference level in favour of big league. Hopefully as out owners learn from mistakes, along with challenge from Hearts and even Hibs new ownership and dare I say it if Celtic board listens to their fans then hopefully there's hope for the future.
If only the SFA would care too.
14 Dec 2025 09:24:31
Can't argue with them tbh!
14 Dec 2025 09:24:40
two good posts. I would ask and add that we have had players from decent teams in the EPL also come up here and not succeed. that doesn't mean that the SPL or Rangers and Celtic are better than those teams or that league. It does just as you say mean the demands are different. I am not sure any team is expected to win every game down South and that I see as the difference.
players don't adjust to fan and media reaction to losing against team who see every game against us as a cup final.
Also you could add the pace of the game is much faster up here so some players struggle. that as well does make our league better or those players bad.
14 Dec 2025 09:59:28
I would agee that the Championship is a better league in terms of being competitive but the standard of player is not levels up. Many players have failed in the SPL who came up from the Championship and who were doing well down there. If you flip it though, a lot of average players who started in the SPL went on to do very well down there. Mikey Johnston, Ross McCormack etc etc etc. Again thus proving the Championship is not levels above the standard of player required to be successful in the SPL. Often players choose the riches of down south and not football reasons over us. If we could offer the same money I guarentee they would sign for us.
Even the argument that they have never experienced the need to win again proves that mentally these players from the championship which is full of small clubs are not good enough to play in an environment where the pressure will either break you or make you. We need players with a mentality where pressure gets them up in the morning and excites them. It is an arrogance from down south that they can come up here and stroll it. Then they quickly realise that this is Rangers and they opt again for the comfort of the Championship. It is about levels and Rangers is a level like no other.
14 Dec 2025 10:16:24
Good points Angus. Part of it is realising it's different, not better or worse. Unfortunately many come with a Barton like attitude that they'll stroll it up here and get a shock whether it's the demands, quality or physicality. The championship is said to be one of the most physically demanding yet Rothwell being the main example of discussion has looked completely unfit since he came.
Was it perhaps again an attitude underestimating Scotland. Remember immediately on signing he started talking about playing for Scotland because he was at Rangers. And don't u think Leeds fans he had, among others clubs are incredibly demanding which is why so many managers are sacked quickly down there too. So more needs to be done to find attitude as well as ability. And that's the challenge.
14 Dec 2025 12:16:10
Interesting debate, agree that normally Rangers and Celtic are going to be better than most Championship sides but I wonder if our top 6 are on a par with them?
For example, if Rothwell et al are good Championship players and can't perform against SPL players surely that suggests that the players here are just as good and therefore the league?
Rangers should be of quality of low/mid table English premier club.
14 Dec 2025 13:22:06
Charlie's lad you have mentioned Mikey Johnston being a success down in the Championship but being a failure up here so I checked. he has scored 5 league goals and 12 assists in the last 2 seasons (60 games) in championship.
Whilst at Celtic he scored 9 and had 7 assists in 61 games. so the return was around the same really. so does that mean the leagues are similar standard?
14 Dec 2025 13:28:04
Kaiser I think Barton is a poor player to use as an example as he thinks he is the best just overall and that he knows better. But he is just one of a few who came up and failed who would be better level: Roy and Robbie Keane, Aaron Ramsay and Niko Kranjcar to name a few. Yes potentially at the end of their careers but most would seem to have the mentality to play in OF.
so is it the pace of the game which creates the issues. I often wonder if that pace and speed of thought required allows Scottish players to play in leagues with a slower pace of build up such as Italy. does the thinking time they have suddenly seem longer perhaps in the same way players form down south don't get the time they are used to.
14 Dec 2025 14:33:32
Angus west brom fans love him and he is a key player for them that's why they made the move permanent. When he first went on loan down there they were raving about him. Up here he was considered bang average. I would agree that the players are of a similar standard from both leagues and that championship players are not levels above SPL players. I think that's why championship players struggle to stand out up here. I would also agree that our league is faster and more physical which is another reason why these players struggle up here. There is also the mentality issue to cope with pressure that championship players struggle with.
We need to address how we identify players. Its been an issue since we got back up the leagues. I think its why people want to recruit the best Scottish players, we have a different mentality and are more physical than most. We have to look at players who play in a similar environment abroad or have similar characteristics. Statistical recruitment may look good on paper but without those characteristics to back up ability then more often than not it will fail.
14 Dec 2025 15:15:07
I used the Barton s the extreme example but to illustrate the point of players thinking they would stroll it here. He's certainly not been the only one and think while not as bad Rothwell for example showed a similar attitude for the reasons mentioned.
Obviously it's only one of a number of issues but shows the importance of getting the right men in who won't underestimate the club by lazily just looking at English league and expecting success like before.
14 Dec 2025 15:50:02
Charlie I think u make a lot of valid points to the debate. The Mikey Johnston example is an interesting example, and why looking purely at starts can be deceiving. Similar numbers but took years to reach that many games at Celtic because he was only a fringe player whereas he's became a mainstay in the Baggies team quickly.