10 Sep 2025 12:24:05
Ah Angus is back ?
I get your point, but there's another side to this. Players aren't robots.
if there's a genuine issue with the manager's approach, tactics, or man-management, and their seems to be?
Players should be allowed to speak up.
A dressing room only works if there's mutual respect both ways. Saying just obey the manager no matter what is easy to say, but in reality it can lead to resentment, poor morale, and even worse performances which we're seeing so far this season.
Look at the Liege situation you mentioned yes, Raskin didn't handle everything perfectly, but clubs also often use sly tactics when a player won't sign a new deal. That doesn't make the player automatically wrong for standing his ground. Does it?
The banished him to the B team approach is usually the club's power play, not necessarily a fair reflection of a player's professionalism.
As for now, if multiple players are questioning what's happening, maybe it's not just "disruption" maybe it's a sign that something deeper needs addressed. Last year when Tav and Butland were getting flak for going to the board, it wasn't about whether it was right or wrong, it was about who the fans liked more. Same principle applies here: either you think players should have a voice, or you don't but you can't move the goalposts depending on whether you like the player.
At the end of the day, a good manager earns authority by convincing players, not just demanding obedience. If things are breaking down, that's as much on the manager as it is on the players.
10 Sep 2025 13:40:19
Aye jim it's Raskin's fault lol.
10 Sep 2025 12:54:07
Agree Mark44. Wrong man and the new owners will find out the hard way. As will the fans.
10 Sep 2025 12:59:07
I agree Mark!
Think it will only be a matter of time.
10 Sep 2025 13:00:32
If the issue with Raskin was the only problem with Martins tenure as manager then we might cut him some slack. Looking at what he is doing, purely as a fan, I can't see anything that he is doing right .
10 Sep 2025 13:01:34
Yep, I'm all for giving people a chance, Mark, however I just don't see this guy being able to turn it around. Hope I'm wrong of course.
10 Sep 2025 13:03:09
The Liege situation is very different to what's happening now. Some clubs banish those that don't sign to try and force them out and can cause issues, others accept players choice to honour contract and play them like Dundee with Cameron.
10 Sep 2025 13:59:15
Wslgers never mind if we can't see anything he's doing right, he couldn't tell us anything he's doing right when asked.
10 Sep 2025 14:04:04
Again i'm not a RM supporter but have been a manager for more years than i care to remember, went from draconian management tactics back in the day, if you didn't like what i said get your jacket, to the modern day approach of consultation and collaboration, however there usually involves a common ground that requires some give and take. that being the case and managers and players know it then you ask for more than what you really want hoping that then you eventually get to near where you wanted.
however their comes a time where you are trying to instil certain philosophies that there is no real discussion, its simply this is the direction we need to take, you are either on board or not. ofcourse you can listen to see if there is easier way to get staff on board but ultimately as a manager (bearing in mind his ideas were part of what got him the job) you have to manage change within the team and dissent from within comes with the territory.
10 Sep 2025 14:30:56
Geesadodothat, Good post mate, yes you can question the manager but at the end of the day you need to play the game the way he wants to play, you maybe think it's wrong but that call isn't yours.
10 Sep 2025 14:42:37
My Star, what if the players know Martin's tactics, fitness levels in coaching and his people skills are rubbish?
These players, during the international break will have been very well coached. They are now returning to Martin and his set up.
IMO, this guy is never a top level coach.
10 Sep 2025 14:48:51
Stig not back but watching. I tend to have a different opinion and was fed up with the grief it got. I am actually indifferent on Martin as a manager as I have only had 11 games to see what is happening. however I think the club needed to reboot from ground zero as the players had too much power and weren't performing as was expected.
also at some point we needed to give a manager, any manager, some time to do that and perhaps go through a bad period where it wasn't going as we fans expected.
My main point was that Martin is given the blame for the Raskin situation, Aasgard, the players we signed, players not being able to pass the ball 5 yards, anything. this isn't the case and there will be blame on both sides.
at least Raskin now appears to have accepted he needs to come to the table and discuss but what he needs to realise is that he isn't in control here and gets paid a good wage to perform for us as he is asked to; not as he chooses to.
that won't be popular as Martin is seen as being the whole issue but it needs to be pointed out at times. that was all.
10 Sep 2025 15:02:24
Mark I agree mate, but that doesn't matter as you work under the managers orders or you won't be playing mate. It's as easy at that.
10 Sep 2025 15:07:01
Kaiser. I think Martin was making a point to some within the club when he didn't answer. it was said on here that there was an issue in an earlier meeting so Martin said it was for those in the club to say what was being done right. It could therefore be to make a 'political' point within the coaches etc.
If he is such an egotist then I am sure he could have listed a lot which was right if he wanted. we might not agree with any of it but would you not expect someone with such a huge ego not to be able to say what he thinks he is doing right.
10 Sep 2025 15:07:09
Speak a lot of Sense Angus ??.
10 Sep 2025 15:14:46
Angus get back on more regular mate or them that are have personal attacks on you will have won, you are one of the best posters on this site and do not let they fools chase you off mate.
10 Sep 2025 15:18:06
My star, with the appointment of Martin, the club has put themselves in a very difficult position.
As I've said in my above post, this guy is never a top-level coach.
BTW, I take your point about listening to the manager.
10 Sep 2025 15:32:39
Can you explain how Raskin knows how we should be playing. I see zero qualification from him or any other player we have to decide how we should play.
If a player and a manager are having issues it's on the player because it's literally his job to follow managers instructions. The player does not have the qualifications or authority to do that whereas the manager 100 percent does.
The manager will ultimately be held responsible for the results, not the player who will get another clean slate when that happens.
10 Sep 2025 15:58:16
Angus there's no doubting u being a Rangers fan and right to share your opinions same as all. Personally I Do believe Martin is at the root of just about all the problems. This isn't just based on what's we've seen since his arrival but on what I saw from him and his attitude before joining. When PC left the one name I said I hoped we wouldn't sign was Martin because of all the reasons we see being repeated. Wanting to completely rip up the squad, falling out with players, playing players out of position, a rigid philosophy that rarely if ever works unless with elite players, calamitous self inflicted mistakes, poor fitness, confusion, a general style of play I just don't want to watch. Not including issues I never knew about that EHL has explained coupled with just a really annoying arrogant smugness I find real hard to listen to are all issues of his making and many could see coming.
10 Sep 2025 16:07:09
Agreed again Mark, but we can't just blame him for everything, even when we want to.
10 Sep 2025 16:19:47
Who personally attacked Angus Star.
10 Sep 2025 16:31:08
Not so sure they get much coaching on national duty? Probs meetings on tactics, and general top ups for fitness, is about it.
10 Sep 2025 16:31:52
It's fine saying that, Star, but if the instructions are overcomplicating things or don't make sense, then players should be able to ask for clarification.
It's also been mentioned that Russell doesn't want players from past regimes, and that he wanted rid of Raskin – something the hierarchy blocked, along with his plan to send Curtis out on loan.
If the hierarchy are stepping in to stop him from making such drastic decisions, and Martin himself is being told to sit down with Raskin, then that speaks volumes.
Star and Angus – what are your thoughts on what I've just said? I'd be genuinely interested to hear your take.
10 Sep 2025 16:35:04
No one fork. Being a football manager is nowhere near the same as managing anywhere else so can't compare that in my opinion.
No one is blaming Martin for everything but he is the main cause of our problems start of the season a blind man can't see it and there is only one man on here that hasn't called for him to be sacked in Angus which no one should have a problem with but the folk agreeing with him here need to look in a mirror as they have called for him to be sacked.
Angus we can't just give any manager time tho as that can set us back years mate.
10 Sep 2025 16:45:03
Stingo, You still play under the manager's orders or you don't play mate, hierarchy isn't choosing the system though.
10 Sep 2025 16:51:33
With regards to the improvement questions Angus, yes I heard rumours it was a pop at someone within the club, tho why not handle it internally rather than through the media? I actually thought the manner of his response and way he spoke reflected his ego and arrogance as if, "I don't need to explain myself or give an answer to you".
Perhaps a better way to respond to his critics would have been, like Thelwell when asked the same thing, would have been to attempt to point out areas that they are working on and can see improvement in. However he couldn't do that as he hasn't improved any area of the team.
10 Sep 2025 16:37:50
Fork, He said he got personal attacks on the discussion page, plus the fact I can see them mate.
10 Sep 2025 17:03:46
Kaiser could the revamp be down to what the owners and Martin agreed as they saw the player power issues in the past with a squad who weren't successful?
His man management skills were lauded by previous players and even Kris Boyd.
Players being played out of position is something that has been claimed against every manager we have had by fans. Aasgaard has been played LM and AM which is where he played for previous team and for Norway. Souttar has started on right of Djiga recently. Raskin is a number 8 who was converted to a 6. last Belgium game he played on left of a double pivot; supposedly he can't play on left. so all managers play players slightly differently. Raskin's issue is he wants to play on pitch his way, McCann has said as much.
players have made bad mistakes (Djiga? Aarons? ) Martin's style gets blame and whilst I can see that I expect the players not to make those dreadful mistakes.
I say again League 1 players in England can play his style but our players cant. I ask why that is and can't come up with an answer other than the players choose not to; or it takes time for all teams to learn them. the fitness thing all seems to be down to how Rothwell is and the different style for the OF.
so in short I can see the issues you mention and how Martin could be to blame but there are far too many unanswered questions which I can see points blame elsewhere.
also no-one on this forum knows what he is being asked to do and where the end point is. I would like to know that but doubt it will be explained until we get to the end and I would also like to see where it could get to. if it isn't Martin then I think e may need to let one manager get more time and I just can't see that happening.
10 Sep 2025 17:08:01
Fork there has been no abusive posts to me but a few were accusing me of stirring it when I wasn't and just giving my opinion but sometimes I was frustrated. Simply I just got fed up providing the other side of the anti-Martin posts as it seemed pointless. as every post seemed to be on those lines then I wasn't posting. simple as that really.
10 Sep 2025 17:17:04
Well same rule applies then to the manager Star
You don't get results out of the players playing to his system that they find uncomfortable or complicated, manager loses his job and rightfully so.
And only himself to blame.
10 Sep 2025 17:29:25
Stig third post which isn't bad for someone not posting ?.
so again I can't understand why League 1 players can play this style but our team cant. I think some may choose not to and the whole system falls apart then. no-one has been able to answer that question for me. if they play it and the style fails then great but the way we are playing doesn't look like what he played during Championship with Southampton; MK Don or Swansea.
Martin wants to play a certain philosophy so needs players to play that. The owners/ Thelwell/ Purdy must have agreed this whole process.
if Martin wants Curtis out of the club why is he playing him? why has he publicly praised him. the two elements don't make sense other than to create a greater furore
is it Martin being told to sit down with Raskin. the quote I read was Thelwell saying that when Nico gets back they would all sit down to explain to Nico what was expected of him. to me that reads that Nico needs to toe the line and not Martin which seems to be what is alluded to.
so Stig tbh I don't know and no-one on here does either. The owners obviously have a plan which involves Martin and the fans don't want him so I suspect there will be a lot more stories out to destabilise that which only affect the club. every time we draw it will happen. and with the next manager, and the next unless they start by winning and continue to always win. as soon as they go on a poor run we will ask for their heads.
10 Sep 2025 17:47:16
Stingo you ain't getting it mate, a player has got to play to his manager orders or he is not playing, another player will.
10 Sep 2025 17:56:31
Go away stalker, you know I'm not interested in having anything to do with you, I have seen enough of the way he wants to play the game ok Coldo from the darkside.
10 Sep 2025 17:58:43
No worries Angus good to see u popping in??.
10 Sep 2025 18:13:08
Sorry, but if your defensive midfielder doesn't have a bit of fire fight about him, you have the wrong man in your team.
A manager's job is to manage characters, said this ages ago. Martin wants love, peace, harmony, all that hippy dippy balls when spl football is about battling. i know what type of character i'd want in there.
10 Sep 2025 18:03:23
Angus u may well be right with regards to some of what's happening. However my dislike for him and his style went long before he arrived and can see the exact same issues happening. Last few years I've spoke of him as example of what I hate in modern football and now we're stuck with him.
Man management? 3 pundits can sit down with Raskin and get him playing so well he starts for Belgium despite issues and feel he should be starting Martin can't? Other managers I've thought should go after a while because of poor performance, him I just can't abide. Sorry the sooner he's gone the better.
10 Sep 2025 18:21:39
Storm yes it might set us back years but not backing a manager has so far set us back 13 + years. Not itk but that is what our new owners want us to stop doing, i. e. sacking managers. If it isn't Martin then it will need to be the next one otherwise that is us another 2 years down that same road to failure.
that was my original argument against sacking any manager really. however feel that now Martin is getting blamed for everything and every story against him is now believed. think about it can every bad story attributed to him be true.
10 Sep 2025 19:12:28
Sometimes yes the bad stories can be true especially when u have a record of doing the same before.
10 Sep 2025 19:23:14
Angus it didn't work in league one tho you have kept saying this but he was mid table with Mk dons.
Angus also thanks for confirming no one abused on the pages and that's another thing Mystar has hit wrong and didn't have the decency to say sorry for accusing people had.
Don't know how you can stalk someone when you don't even know who anyone is on here ? embarrassing m
The stig it's pointless talking to Mystar he doesn't want him but still backs him. He turned after 90 mins against st Mirren ?♂️.
10 Sep 2025 20:28:47
Why do you keep posting about me man? Coldo has stalked me for ages, hasn't a couple of others said that? Fork certainly has, you just jog on and stop posting about me, by the way you said Angus was talking bs a few times that to me is a personal attack, now do one rocket man, hopefully this is the last time you use my user name.
10 Sep 2025 20:35:25
Stalking my posts, but that is clearly too much for you, surprised, nope.
10 Sep 2025 20:45:04
Storm you called Angus a d! ck on the live chat when he was not there to defend himself. You know it as well fork but trying to worm your way out of it.
10 Sep 2025 22:02:02
Actually I take Storm calling me that as a compliment. it means my way of thinking is so far removed from his. so thanks Storm.
FYI there is a difference by the way in abuse and constantly picking on a posters posts. if I had been asked that now my answer would be different ?.