Rangers Banter Archive October 18 2012

18 Oct 2012 20:11:17
As well posting on the gers page for this question. Can any Celtic fan confirm that the cheapest matchday ticket costs £36.30? If that is true football fans truly are being ripped off.

Source- The Price of Football poll.

No its cheapest day out, that includes a programme, drink and something to eat. {Ed001's Note - the report was flawed massively, it failed to include so many things, such as child tickets etc. One of those sensationalised reports that actually tell you nothing.}

Spl games are mostly £26 adult

Ed's right. Massively flawed. I get tickets for £19. My Dad get's a concession and a few of my mates who are students pay reduced fees. I don't count in the 'matchday' experience costs because everyones costs are different. I travel from Perth but my mate stays in Tollcross. Different expenses altogether. I really don't know why they bother publishing these ****ty stories about costs anyway. If you are a true fan of your club you go whatever the cost because your team plays there, simple as.

18 Oct 2012 19:19:23
Not heard anything from the John brown camp in a while , did he ever come out with what was said between him and Charlie green that was meant to be the catalyst for his campaign to buy over the club ?

He told him if he makes a pigs ear of it whyte will sack the both of us

He's deffo stopped tweeting who cares anyway.

Not yet but nobody at Ibrox keeps secrets for ever.

He asked bomber to buy him a bag of chips till he gets his giro

18 Oct 2012 18:15:05
ed ah wundur if you wid pit a wee gee up fur ma new site dedimacatit tae people wae dxslexia,its tae hep them tae buy cherished regy plates,its called bamsrus.co.uk'
fur instince ah jist selt a plte tae a punter an hoor ago ,
bam 1 he thinks it bambi bit hey he's happy am happy,
your no dislecksick ed ur ye?
av goat a nice wee plate fur ye "edmoan" bit fae a distunce head man? ur deed man? whitevur ed usual fone no plus a big discoont (that last bits no a plate) {Ed001's Note - erm, thanks, I think.}

18 Oct 2012 21:35:15
ED001 as well as advertising wee Pat's latest business venture, a Mr C Green has asked me to publish his new website www.giveaspivahand.com
all monies raised will be spent. lol Timalloy {Ed001's Note - was that a business venture? I thought he was just in pain.}

18 Oct 2012 15:52:23
Be honest here, be completely honest. Take off any attachment you have to Rangers and tell me how the following would have went down.

I'll pick 2008 (to be honest it could be any year of late). Rangers have just been in the UEFA Cup Final. David Murray comes out and says "Despite our European run, the reality is the club are in a pretty poor state financially. Not only will there be no more big signings but for the foreseeable future we will be a selling club. As of right now every player is on the transfer list." (Utilising the exposure that the club had from its European run). "The likelihood is Celtic will win several more championships in a row till we are back on our feet but for the longer term continuation and success of Rangers we believe this is unfortunately the only option left to us."

Bear in mind Celtic would already be on three in a row. Would that have went down well with the Rangers support as a whole? Would that have been tolerated? I think not and I would imagine David Murray thought it unlikely too.

Ultimately Rangers were net buyers in two seasons of the next three. An incredible statistic given what we know now. Admittedly over those three seasons we are talking £23.7m out to £21m in. It is not a huge amount but should a club in such a dire financial position be net buyers at all?

Say what you will about Craig Whyte (most if not all of which I'd agree with) but he made one very pertinent point in his interview last night (30 minutes in he says) "Even if you look back to the previous board, before I was involved, they could have battened down the hatches, they could have cut expenses, they could have got rid of the Lloyd's debt themselves, they could have built up a surplus of cash to deal with the tax case, they chose not to do that.They chose to bury their heads in the sand and not deal with these issues."

Why would they do that? Why not cut your cloth to suit? Why not sell five or six players from what was a successful, high exposure team?

Because a Rangers support, the vast bulk of whom were only used to success and trophies would not have tolerated it. Moreso with Celtic already on three titles.

Every businessman loses face at some point, every share price dips, these were things David Murray would have been used to and would have dealt with in his everyday business dealings. These people, Murray as much as anyone else, make hard, cold business decisions every day with impacts on employees, rivals, a whole host of people. Yet here he was not prepared to make the swingeing cuts necessary, why?

Letting down the Rangers support (or any support for that matter) and suffering the inevitable backlash is something no businessman wants to do or is prepared to suffer.

I have a great deal of sympathy for Gers fans who were debenture holders etc and sure it was the folk at the top table that caused this but can the Rangers support, hand on heart, say they would have accepted the draconian cuts that were required knowing full well that the main profiteer of this would have been Celtic moving on relentlessly to how many titles in a row?

Agree, disagree all you want but I'm presuming a disagree would mean you would have accepted such an announcement from Murray and embraced it. If you disagree for any other reason I'd be keen to know why.

Gaz

And if they told you in 2012 your club would be liquidated would you have excepted it ?? of coarse you would have unless your stupid

Obsessed!!!!!

A very interesting post and i suspect we all know the answer to your question.AB.

@2 Wrong, paying attention, something some of you should have done years ago. It's remarkable that after such an indictment of your club that a one word, meaningless answer suffices. Suggests you have no counter argument, no contrary opinion, when a half baked pointless mantra will do. Well done 2, just proved my point further. Okay for the rest of you, serious debate or don't bother.

Gaz

Gaz, keep it short. We gers fans keep getting told we are foolish, why type so many words?

Well the plan was to keep the team together qualify for c league and play our way out of trouble which we did to an extent. The Lloyds debt was going down. It was murrayd other debts which caused our probes with Lloyds. Also the year you chose 2008 included selling a centre back for a 6-8 million profit and replacing him with a 1.8 million or so player and still winning a double. Hardly reckless. Cw didn't have to buy rangers. He chose to. And he chose not to sell players in 2 transfer windows with which the cash could have paid the ni and paye. The big tax case ad far as I'm aware still undecided so cw could have prevented admin himself. Sell assets and reduce costs.

@ 5 I have great belief that aint the case. Some just need to stop thinking if it slags Rangers its lies and if it praises them it's 100% factual, that's all mate.

Gaz

@ 6 I presume you are talking about Bougherra in and Cuellar out? That was 2008/2009 I'm afraid. For that season the total spent on players was £17.8m the total brought in from sales £12.3m. So not only did you pick the wrong season but the club were still net buyers despite that.

I knew someone would mention the Lloyds debt and yes it was going down but there wasn't one single penny set aside nor one expenditure drop made with the big tax case in mind. When Whyte took over there was seemingly working capital of £2m plus. No where near what would have been required to pay off the big tax case.

You need look no further than Leeds to find a shining example that banking on "playing your way out of trouble" is fraught with danger. That first season mentioned with Bougherra Rangers net spent £5.5m and then got knocked out of Europe in double quick time by Kaunus. At the cost of £8.6m Mendes, Davis and Edu all joined AFTER Rangers were out of Europe for that season. The more you look into this the dafter it becomes!

Gaz

During the period you mention (2008-11) they were net spenders to the tune of circa £2m as both yourself and Craig Whyte agree - the bit you both miss out, that weakens both your claims, is that during this period the bank debt reduced from £37m down to £18m. This was largely due to CL income, something they couldn't have achieved without the net spend of £2m. You should always be careful using Craig Whyte's ramblings to back up your point ......

@ 9. As you'll see in paragraph two of my last post I was referring to the big tax case. Not a penny set aside for it. Any team banking on Champions League money to reduce a debt is gambling big time. Fair enough on the seasons where winning the SPL gained automatic entry but in 2008/09 and 2011/12 that wasn't the case.

I'm no Craig Whyte fan but it seems odd that he's criticised for budgeting for Europa League in 2011/12 but a Rangers team under Murray can spend £17.8m in 2008/09 only to fall to Kaunas at the first hurdle and then not employ some austerity measures. As I said £8.6m was spent after the defeat. So a skint club spends another £8.6m in 08/09 in the hope of winning the league and qualifying for an event where in a years time they might make £12m.

As it happened they did however factor in Mendes, Edu and Davis wages for the two seasons in question and you're probably talking about making washers.

It becomes more apparent that Murray never had any intention of ever a) cost cutting to the degree required b) setting up any fund to pay the big tax case. Shambolic leadership and as I asked earlier why? Because a Gers support weaned on trophy after trophy wouldn't countenance anything else.

Gaz

So what the op is saying is it was all down to fan pressure so would that not suggest it was the fans fault ??

@ 11, that was the question I was asking. Bear in mind we were talking about a, at the time, very successful, experienced businessman who had made tough decisions and no doubt restructured a company or two when it was struggling yet from when the debt started rising and the big tax case came along he did damn near nothing to curb the expenditure.

These are things he would have done swiftly in other companies, why not Rangers? That was my question. Murray Steel Inc. or David's Aluminium Emporium (I made them up) would have experienced cost-cutting immediately yet there was hardly a change in Rangers expenditure,something had to be different for that to be the case.

I'm not saying it was wholly responsible, not even close, but a fan base most of whom had only seen success have to take a portion of the responsibility for never questioning what was an insane policy.

As proof of how long this was common knowledge, here's a story. I was sitting watching a Rangers European game with a female neighbour. Purely to be in the opposite camp from me and with no real interest in it she was cheering Rangers. They won on penalties. I recall saying "Ach who cares anyway, they'll be skint soon enough and will have to cut their cloth accordingly, they have years of struggling ahead."

I moved out of that street in 2004. The game in question was PSG in 2002. A decade ago it was known Rangers were struggling financially. There is no other penalty shoot out victory near it, so that was the game in question.

If I knew it, surely Rangers fans knew it and must have known or at least suspected that the expenditure was unsustainable. Within a season of that Leeds were beginning to spiral out of control, the warning signs were there. If it could happen to Leeds it could happen to Rangers.

So for me it is mostly Murray, Whyte delievered the telling blow but the fans just did what they always do, demanded success and ignored the realities.

Gaz

Your op gazz states we've just lost UEFA cup final. Summer 2008. Correct? Cuellar was sold and boogie bought in summer of 2008. Correct? Ie summer transfer window. So I did not get my year wrong. Thank you

Sorry the double I thought you referred to was the two domestic cups of 2007/2008. You are correct but despite a big transfer profit in the two players (Bougherra/Cuellar) they were still net buyers to the tune of £5.5m. You cant point out only one transfer on either side to prove your point when a whole raft of other transfers suggest otherwise. But I was wrong on the year.

Gaz

Op i take your point i think the bottom line is dm and the fans where on the same power trip

I think you summed it up perfectly there 15). There's also perhaps a bit of vanity on his part, not shying away from the "every fiver Celtic spend..." But he had to know all of this would be unsustainable and would end in tears. Not his might I add.

Gaz

Gaz the every fiver quote sticks out to everyone but the one that sticks out to me is when dm said when you owe the bank 50 grand your in trouble... but when you owe the bank 50 million the banks in trouble ... that to me showed his attitude and the games he was playing with the bank i said then it would end in tears

18 Oct 2012 15:16:46
Footballers facing wage cuts as study shows two-thirds of clubs don't expect to make a profit this year.

Neil Doncaster believes the Scottish Premier League has already proved it can survive without Rangers' participation.

You have to question Doncasters' statement as the cost to his member clubs let alone Scottish football seem to be telling a different story, time to go Doncaster as you only seem to have the SPL (organisation) interests at heart, no second payment to the member clubs regarding media rights & withholding Rangers prize money season 2011 - 2012.

What has happened to this money or is it a case of it being used to prop up this insolvent organisation and pay for the tribunal?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only division3' (Indian summer) currently benefiting from Rangers current position, reconstruction a must, Doncaster & Regan must go and go now so the whole of Scottish football can recover.

Carling1873

Football income is slightly up on previous years but no profits expected due to matching spending. Not bad in a several year period of trending down incomes year on year. Rangers that played last year is not Green's new club and any revenues due to oldco must be retained by the authorities to pay footballing debts. Only creditors have a call on revenues due to oldco.

Reconstruction a must? So that you can gain promotion sooner than you deserve? And for your information buddy, Scottish football is recovering with your mob firmly ensconced in the 4th tier and everyone feeling the benefits from it.

Don't blame Doncaster for the state of Scottish Football. If we don't know who caused this crisis then we are kidding ourselves. We have cheated at every turn tax, hundreds of creditors fans who had shares and debentures from the old club. Once the old club is liquidated I hope we can forget everything that has happened over the last year get back to what we used to be good at add titles to our history, if we are allowed to keep that along with our heritage and for the sake of football stop blaming everybody else because there is no doubt where the blame lies, then we might
also get our respect back.
Bobby

Not directly linked to what you are posting, but after the shambles of the Scotland results, scottish football under the guidance of the sfa and the spl ( as players outwith the spl in scotland unlikely to get a call up) must now be sacked.
A country's league set up and level of football is measured by the success of it's clubs in euro competitions and national competitions.
Rangers and Celtic kept the appearance up by reaching euro finals 'recently'. Scotland hasn't qualified for a major tourney since 1998, the same year the spl was set up.
How long do they get while receiving healthy salaries for failure?

Well said Bobby.

Things certainly aren't good but this is hardly the promised Armageddon. Remember all those posts about at least two SPL clubs in administration within a couple of months of the season.

Teams just need to cut their cloth accordingly. And how I wish we'd done that several years ago or we wouldn't be in the mess we still are.

BARNEY BEAR

Why are you asking for reconstructing the spl ?? your not a part of it you dont own a share so you have no right to even have an opinion if and when you become a member then you can say your piece but right now its nothing to do with you {The Ed039's Note - maybe because as an organisation they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, are you not being hypocritical here, you are obviously not a rangers supporter so what does it have to do with you what rangers supporters/rangers people's opinions are because it has nothing to do with you and yours?)

Ed as a supporter of a club who plays in spl it has everything to do with me and what i would say is hypocritical is anyone connected to a club that will soon be liquidated offering any advice to anyone i agree the spl couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery but thats our problem not yours but your club couldn't organize its self so the last thing that the spl needs is anyone from your Incompetence club pocking their nose in go sort out your own mess first {The Ed039's Note - you missed my point, if you have nothing to do with an SFL club don't offer any advice to its supporters, you can't have it both ways)

You tell them ed, get stuck into them.

@6 you're right, we are not a member of the Private Members club, the same Private Members Club that still has to get a tv deal signed.
However in this country there is such a thing as freedom of speech, but you sound more like a wee dictator.
This page is full of opinions and even yours has been allowed. Respect others rights.

All study's and reports including ex first minister mcleish's stated only a ten team SPL was viable. A million pounds was spent on these studies. So lets reconstruct and bump two teams out SPL ASAP and knock it on down the divisions until two teams fall out div3, one being the newest entrant.

@9 Correct mate it's a feckin banter page,this crap that it's not your business if you are not a part of something is baloney,
we are all entitled to our opinion if you can't handle that, then tough.
Tam

To number 3, i agree with you wholeheartedly, we keep our history but with the good history will come the bad history, we cheated our creditors out of millions of pounds :-(

Both ways ed ? what right of opinion does an sfl newly formed club have in who runs the spl ? if i wanted it both ways i would be dictating to yous who should run the sfl but i couldnt care less and like i said earlier yous liquidated your own club so dont poke your nose into the running of others {The Ed039's Note - You are not even paying attention to what I am saying)

18 Oct 2012 13:46:39
Had to laugh at Bomber Brown in the times earlier this week....."Green did not back Ally with signings"!! Aye that's right Brown Green signed 1 of last seasons most prolific scorers in the SPL in Sandaza, a centre half with Serie A experience, 2 mifielders that would walk into most SPL teams in Shields and Black and 1 of the most promising youngsters in Scotland in Templeton......if that aint backing your manager then i don't know what is. Brown was a shambles during his ridiculous takeover campaign and his comments about Green stink of bitterness and his statement has no substance. For me Green has backed Ally 100%, it aint Green's fault the team isn't performing, the buck stops with Ally. But the auld pals act has blinkered Brown from seeing what most Rangers fans see and that is an inept manager.....
J1985

Yep. That Sandaza boy has scored a barrow load of goals in the 3rd Division - has he not. Dud. My< old man is fitter than Sandoza will ever be in Div 3 - get my drift!

Ally's failure with a hugely expensive squad last year to get into CL group stage sunk the club. Whyte had zero options. Murray knew it was coming and offloaded £150m debt to Whyte for £1, and a business relying on Ally.

McCoist wanted Sandaza......Green delivered. That's my point. I don't rate the guy myself neither did i fancy the Kyle signing but it was Ally's call. Personally i would have preferred we went after someone like Rory McAllistar and the young striker from Airdrie (can't remember his name), less wages and more experience in the lower leagues....makes sense to me. I mean McCulloch, Little, Kai Naismith, Rory McAllistar, the young lad from Airdrie and Kane Hemmings to come back in the new year would have been sufficient strike options for us up to SFL1. Ally's signings have been shocking yet Brown felt the need to diveret blame to Charles Green.........
J1985

Ryan donnelly? airdrie

18 Oct 2012 12:06:08
What changed is that the erstwhile ***gers fans, now the Sevco loyal, hate the idea but will never be able or allowed to forget it.

Like the guy who genuinely believes he is Elvis reincarnated and turns up in the jumpsuit with the sideburns and the quiff, but everyone just pisses themselves laughing�

Rangers have left the building.

Even Jim Traynor, once again writes its a brand new club starting life in div3. Correcting Whyte, the liar saying they were demoted there. How blatant is that?

You will need to convince yourself a bit more, otherwise you would not be on here spouting drivel. Thanks for your opinion though.

The SPL Chairmen weren't asked to vote on booting Rangers OUT the SPL they were asked to vote to allow Green's new sevco rangers club IN.

The historical Rangers 1872 being managed by court order by Paul Clark, were still in the SPL, and voted to allow new sevco rangers in. All a matter of historical formal record. Traynor is correct its a brand new club starting its footballing history in div3.

18 Oct 2012 11:38:08
Can you beleive that the very journalist who coined the phrase "succulent lamb" has broke with the notion that Rangers weren't liquidated.
Gawn yerself Jabba:-

"He also added: 'What other country in the world would deal with one of their biggest clubs in the way they have and demote them to the Third Division.'

"Wrong again, Craig. Rangers had to go there because they were a new club starting over."

18 Oct 2012 11:14:29
Tickets. Selling well for the Glasgow derby this Saturday let's get behind the gers and see them climb the table

The oldest derby in the world nearly sold out

That obviously isn't the same derby in which a club (still in existence, never in administration nor liquidation) from the east end won the first ever derby match 5.2 and the last ever derby match 3.1 and had the record for the biggest win , 7.1.
The east ends oppents died recently of a combination of hubris and chasing lions.

The original Glasgow derby, the only Glasgow derby and the oldest. Got ma tickets.

Hello Hello 2.) You conveniently left out Rangers humping Celtic 8-1. Your reply will be "it didn't count because it was played during the war" etc. etc. Get over it.....8-1 ya beauty! Geo the Ger

@2 ha ha ha being selective with the facts as always. Smeltic had about 6 or 7 Hibs players for the first 'derby', later of course smeltic stole the same players from the charity that was Hibs. The same charity style that smeltic copied.
And as it is recorded, as they say the media going gently - 'The first ever Old Firm match took place in 1888, the year of Celtic's establishment. Rangers lost 5�2 in a friendly to a team composed largely of "guest players" from Hibernian'
Rangers and Celtic have played each other 399 times: Rangers won 159 matches, Celtic 144 matches and 96 were draws.
Smeltic chasing bears since birth.

Govan didn't become part of Glasgow until 1912, as any Jags fan can attest.

Paddy Malarkey

Gers fan here, QP played 6 Glasgow teams before Rangers we're ever in it. It might be good for a wind up but be careful these games were well all top division stuff.
Bobby

Amy MacDonald, ya wee beauty!
Scots singing sensation Amy Macdonald will be a guest of Rangers FC (Official) at this weekend's home game with Queen's Park:
I'm bringing some friends along with me and we're all very excited about coming to see the original Glasgow derby.
I've never been on the pitch before so that'll be really exciting. It's really cool for me to be coming to a home game and to be part of it all.�

Yep biggest derby in the world against an amateur club you might get a result but we only deal in professional football {The Ed039's Note - there are pages dedicated to professional football clubs rumours and banter as well, if you only deal in professional football then what is your interest here?)

If you only deal in professional football then what is your interest here? ... what can i say to that ... my point was queens park are an amateur club so its hardly anything to shout about but if you see your own club as amateur then thats up to you ...

18 Oct 2012 07:43:53
I made the difficult decision in May after following The Gers for over 4 decades not to go back, guilt by association to Murray and Whyte was enough to make that decision for me, I'm sorry to say I haven't been wrong.Now it's a dodgy Yorkshire man at the helm. I haven't looked back , why do I think I'm not the only one.

OP ..... See you back again when we're back at the top - your just a fair weather supporter or celtic in disguise!

There is and was no decision to be made, you are either a Rangers supporter or not, you are clearly not.
You don't wake up in the morning and decide whether you love your family or not, you do not wake up and decide if you love your team or not. You are a disgrace

But if your team dies and a new one is formed playing at the same stadium you then have the choice of whether you decide to support that team or not.
Al

18 Oct 2012 07:19:09
So lets get this right; Sir David Used Ticketus and introduced them to Craig Whyte, Craig Whyte used ticketus and introduced them to Charles Green. Craig Whyte introduced D&P to ticketus and introduced them to Rangers. Craig Whyte knew Charles Green and introduced him to D & P.

Have I got this right? It's all very interconected and difficult to follow.

17 Oct 2012 21:09:55
Just watched the 30 min interview
with craig whyte on bbc scotland
online. No matter which team you
support it just becomes more clear
as mud as each day passes. He makes various claims and counter claims, he blames
Murray for the mess, he could be
right, says they all knew about the
ticketus arrangement, could be true and says club went under essentially because of
lack of income from europa
tournament. The journalist asking the
questions did a good job in trying to
pressurise him, try to watch if you
get a chance, stevie.

Murray used EBTS in his main business, and rangers. Which did he choose to challenge with HRMC.... rangers ?

So rangers fc could die in the process, and in the background murray free to deal with HRMC for deal on his main EBTS.

As a distraction there needs to be scapegoat, and rangers fc is it - no one talking about the real issue, that rangers fc thrown to the wolves.....

Green, Whyte, D&P is the side show.....