Rangers Banter Archive November 13 2012

13 Nov 2012 17:27:02
I understand that this is a banter site, and as such we get the usual to and fro from our friends of hooped persuasion.

However I am astonished at the state of our national game and yet those Celtic fans who seem to have no interest other than having a dig, with the usual Sevco garbage. The clue is in the title of the page you are on "Rangers".

It would be nice and interesting if rather than having a dig and petty points scoring that a sensible discussion on the current plight of our game. It is absolutely clear that the SPL clubs are struggling financially. It is clear that those financial concerns are only going to get significantly worse over the next three years.

I believe that Hearts, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, and a couple of others may well be in administration and possible liquidation. We can sit back and watch and do nothing or change is needed and needed quickly. I am not looking for a quick way back to the top tier but it is crazy if anybody thinks that the SPL can do without one of the top teams being there. I think I would say the same if it was Celtic in div three.

It is clear that Celtic are also suffering in two ways. Their attendances have been very poor this year with a recent cup game having attracted their lowest attendance in eighteen years. It is clear that Celtics attendances are also suffering. I know times are hard, and know that you have CL games to pay for but times have been hard for the past four years, it is too easy to blame that. I have some good friends who are not going because it simply doesn't matter whether you win, lose or draw. You know you will win the league because there is no competition. More and more people will realise this over the next few years and attendances will suffer more.
A competition with no competition is nothing.

It also has to be said that the standard of football will suffer. This year Celtic have CL which is making things interesting for their fans, but they may not qualify in the next three years, what then. Will the fans be happy to turn up in droves for SPL games. I don't think so.

So players will be sold and lesser players bought, believe me that isn't great, I know, I am watching lesser players.

It is a strange game football and can you just imagine if Celtic had not qualified for CL which can easily happen, and that Celtic had dropped 14 points in twelve games which in a normal season would see them trailing by several points, the fans would be up in arms. The Celtic team are obviously pretty impressive as their CL results prove, they should win every SPL game and that suggests that the players are not putting in the same effort. But they are not points behind because the other teams are rubbish, it just does not matter.

So now is the time for common sense, not petty point scoring, Rangers NEED to be back in the top flight, not just for our sake but for the sake of ALL clubs. The whole game is suffering,apart from div three teams, and change is needed now for the good of Scottish football.

It's nothing to do with bad management by SPL or SFA. It's bad finances management by clubs. Too many board directors think their club exists to provide them salaries for life. It's unsustainable.
Having a 16 top tier, how is that in any way going to improve anything? It's just not possible. Colt teams nonsense Rangers colts are playing in the first. What genius thinks 4 more diddy teams in SPL is the answer.
Pyramid into SFL is ok, don't need to change SPL for that.

A very good post, now is the time for change, hope the powers that be get their heads together and come up with a solution that is good for the clubs and all fans.
SAVE OUR GAME
Bobby

Totally agree mate year on year celtc did not drop 14 points until march last season....now with no rangers to competr against...14 points lost by mid november.....really poor form accepted by fans due to half decent results in CL... lower scottish coefficient next year....continually barrowling down the pecking order of countries in europe but accepted because of what...clubs refuse to do what is required and work together for the benefit of the scottish professional football game

Well that's one side and is a rangers fans side but what I see is the game more entertaining and competitive. Yes the attendance might be down but times are hard no matter how you spin it, but what I have seen this season is a whole new spl which is getting more attention now without yous. And I say this with justification because over here in Canada there has been way more coverage and actual highlights of the games like every week, and they are saying how good the play is(which before they would show only derby game)maybe cause Celtic have made some huge noise around the world or because it is getting better. The spl clubs have always been in trouble and for yous to take glory and say spl is nothing and all will fail without yous is wrong! Yes not having yous is an impact but time was running out on them anyways but unlike yous they are going down because they play by the book and if they do go down they could at least say they did it the right way and have respect from the ppl. You fans sure are paying a lot of attention to Celtic, so the attendance may be down but our tv viewers have rising even higher thanks to yous because yous want to see some fantastic football that you don't get to see from your club.

God your so full of your own self importance . You actually think if your team were in the SPL it would solve all financial and football problems . Yous chose to be in 4th tier football so don't make out yous would ride in like the cavalry and save everything . Unbelievable..........DH

As far as am aware this site still relates to oldco untill its changed to "the ranger" its not really your page either

I'm afraid for the good of Scottish football the new Rangers will have to work its way to the top flight via the normal route of promotion.
Seven of the five SPL clubs are apparently enjoying increased gates. It is wishful thinking by some that the demise of Rangers is the root cause of the financial woes troubling the likes of Hearts. The truth is the jambos have been in trouble for a while and it is only now crystallising due to the banker Vlad turning off the money tap.

As for Celtic. I would argue it is prospering due to the absence of Rangers. Lennon has clearly focused the team's attention on Europe and it has paid off handsomely. You can bet Peter Lawell will be urging the same strategy next season too. Europe is where its at for Celtic without Rangers.

Times are hard....Rangers are looking to raise £15m + in a share issue. Celtic are looking for that for ONE player. In the last 9 home games Celtic have had just under half a million in attendance at Celtic Park.

Last season Celtic's matchday revenue was in the top 10 in Europe.

What is Scottish football to do when one if the Glasgow giants get in a mess...let them away with it?? From your point of view its only Scottish football that benefits from Rangers being in the SPL but my friend so would Rangers. Why should you or my club Celtic have that given right ?

"Half decent results in CL"

Winning all 4 qualifying ties , then going to the Russian capital and beating a team worth £10m's followed by a victory over arguably the greatest ever club side.

To say that Hearts' problems are as a result of The Rangers being in Division 3 is laughable. As is saying if The Rangers are put into the SPL, all of Hearts' problems will be solved. Anyone who thinks that, is either deluded, or peddling myths to suit the agenda of certain people.

@4+5 Just to make you aware: 'yous' isn't a word (not even in Olde Scots). DH the OP is saying we need to seriously consider restructuring the hierarchical and league structures within Scottish football in order to save our game from oblivion (not necessarily purely financial either). Since the SPL came into existence how many World Cups or European Championships have the national team qualified for? None. How many times have a Scottish club (bar Celtic and Rangers) got past the qualifiers in Europe in comparison to pre SPL times? Very few. How many clubs are in far greater debt now than before they joined the SPL? This trend will continue whilst we have the chairmen of the top league clubs running our game (and I include previous Rangers administrations in that list too - the initial greed of Rangers, and Celtic, is entirely to blame for the creation of the SPL in the first place). It needs to change or we simply won't move forward. If the change was designed to occur in three years time I would back it just as fervently, as I would rather we earned our place in the top league through winning back to back promotions. That may be too late for some though.

@6 You're the type of poster who gives the numpties on our side an excuse to bite. Grow up.

@7 Fair point, and, as I said, I agree that we should work our way back up legitimately. I also agree about the Hearts situation - Romanov is no longer willing to bankroll a shortfall and the fans will have to sort it out and accept poorer fare from now on if the club is to survive.

However, "SEVEN of the FIVE SPL clubs are apparently enjoying increased gates" Eh??

How are the lucrative corporate match day figures looking for these clubs (whatever number it is)? Up or down on last year? How does their TV income compare to last year? Up or down (have they even received it all yet, more to the point)? How are the catering figures looking year on year? Will an extra hundred or so punters through the gate make up the shortfall in the other points for these clubs? No, they won't, and it will probably be worse next year.

I do agree Celtic appear to be thriving though as they have received the multi millions on offer from the Champions League which they have not been in receipt of for years. Could you still say they would be thriving if they didn't qualify and play as well as they have done though?

@8 Your first point is a fair one and emphasises Celtic's financial strength in comparison to ours currently (Wanyama - awesome player, what a find - potentially being worth as much as we are looking to raise in a share issue and a lot of interest being shown in him bumping up his price - however, I would also add that he is the only one likely to go for over 10m from your current squad although you probably have another couple valued between the 5-8m mark). Also your last point is an equally valid one (we would also benefit and why should we have that right). We shouldn't but I do get the point the OP is making as he is considering the holistic picture whilst openly admitting it would also primarily be of benefit to Rangers too.

I would take issue with the two points you make in the middle though. Matchday revenue may very well have been in the top ten in Europe last year (I wouldn't know as I haven't researched it before replying) but that was last season (i.e. when Rangers were in the league and you had some competition). Are you honestly predicting it will remain in the top ten by the end of this season without us in the league (Old Firm games and a realistic challenger for the title)?

The reason I ask is in direct relation to your next and only dubious point for me. 499,999 (define just under) people have attended the last nine home games? I seriously doubt the actual figure is much over 400,000 (and how does that figure compare year on year minus the Champions league games - substantially down I would imagine). You couldn't even muster a full house for the unfurling of the flag and as the OP pointed out you had your worst attendance figure in eighteen years recently. Apart from Barcelona (taking into account the requisite reduction in seats available) when was the last time Celtic Park was full to the rafters?

The OP (and Bobby and a few others over the last few days) appear to me to be concerned with the overall health of our game on a national scale, as am I. The problem is that my club, Rangers, have wrecked such havoc on the way down that the concern of non-Rangers fans is to make sure they pay for their sins whatever the cost to the game nationally (whilst calling us Sevco, Newco, The Rangers etc, a new club with no history who happen to play in the same stadium as a now defunct team once did whilst somehow remaining accountable and liable for the mistakes of the team they replaced in their eyes - ironic and contradictory) without considering the big picture.

There is only one question to ask yourselves to prove how blinkered we have all become. If you were asked at the beginning of last season (before the unjustifiable and appalling sideshow that has been the Rangers saga) whether league reconstruction and returning to one governing body running our game would have benefited Scottish football overall, how many of you would have honestly said no?

What has made you change your mind a year on and which one is really more important (okay then, two/three questions, lol)?

Brian

Okay Brain NO 8 here, yes league reconstruction is necessary and to be honest I would welcome play-offs etc and the current Div 3 structure of no relegation and no chance of promotion into this league has to go to enable any chance of our grassroots football to progess.

Would Rangers fans have said league reconstruction was a good idea pre-administration, would they have cared � NO.

Lets get one thing straight that is stating the obvious, the only team who have suffered badly recently due to the financial constraints in Scottish football is RANGERS. The only team who could not save themselves is RANGERS. The only team who could not muster up £5.5m from a reputable source to buy the assests is RANGERS.

Yes, other teams are not healthy but their debt is historical and lets not forget Hearts won the Scottish Cup, had a Europa league game against Liverpool and have still to play Celtic at Tynecastle. Other than 1 or maybe 2 visits from the Rangers support there is no difference to the SPL income this season. When TV & sponsorship money have to be renegotiated then you might see a difference but this is hypothetical just like Rangers being in the SPL and Celtic not being in the CL. Its not a real situation.

With regards Celtic's attendances, you are talking about a cup game that was the 3rd home match in 6 days and we have not drawn at home in a cup game since 2009 so any income here is a bonus.

I would suggest rangers fans stop the obsession (seeing as that is the new word) with the SPL and attendances at other football grounds and concentrate on financial matters at their own club. If they asked the questions other fans did you might not be heading into another financial freefall. Its great Walter's back to advise on football matters but lets not forget he was part of the old regime that killed your club and associated with the EBT debacle. He's a football man pure & simple, not financial.

FYI..(source Deloittes) here's the matchday revenue from 2011. The season you won the league and cup double and Walter was still there:-

Celtic � 43.4m Rangers � 31.5m

Supporting your team is a long-term gig/investment, not a one season wonder. Remind me again when your team was on its backside and Ally was in dire need of support..what was the Scottish Cup attendance v Dundee Utd?

Forget the SPL and attendance obsession and ask CG how he intends making up the 12m matchday revenue Celtic have over Rangers and that's just for a start. Brian the most blinkered fans of all are in Div 3 and still don't understand why they are there. We'll leave it at that..

Incidentally, you do know CG's share issue at Sheffield was investigated by the DTI don't you ?

Brain No.8 again� Deluded fans I would say are the fans that follow a club with no certified accounts. Every other club has no need for delusion, its there in black & white for all to see.

Stop dealing in hypothetical situations is all I'm saying.

Brian reasonable post but i want to add my tuppence worth. You say the op and yourself are worried about our game nationally ?.Yet at the end of his post and the middle of your's you both talk about The Rangers needing to be in the top league? In your post you talk about competition? as far as i can see the league is tighter this year than it's ever been.You also question poster 8 regarding revenue when you admit you have not researched it ?. You ask when was Celtic park full to the rafter's, when was the last time Ibrox was filled to the rafter's ?. You question the amount of supporter's that have attended parkhead this season ? did you research that or is it just a guess. Now i will go into my teacher mode ,as you have done regarding the word " yous" the word " yous" has been used on many an occasion on this site but you pull up the guy you think is a Celtic supporter. Rangers wreaked havoc not wrecked havoc,so Brian the next time you want to play teacher make sure you have your spelling correct.
Tam

@11 I hate to be pedantic, but you will find that 'yous' is listed in the Oxford English Dictionary (online) and in my book that makes it a real word. New words are being added all the time to suit modern usage.
I didn't read the rest of your post as it was rather long and since there was a glaring error in the first sentence I felt that I could not trust the accuracy of the remainder.
Al

Why should we care about the state of the national game when the national association don't give a **** about it

What happens to the 3rd and 2nd division clubs who lose out on the money from rangers if they get moved to spl ?? your better staying in the 3rd they need you more

Op here., i am afraid that most of you still seem intent on points scoring. I never said Hearts problem could be solved by Rangers, yet you seem to read words that I did not use.

whatever you say the fact is that our game is dying, there may be several clubs in real danger, so something has to be done to try and attract more fans, more money etc.

However lets be honest for once and forget tribal tendencies, it is stupid for all not to have one of the big two not there. we dont have other clubs to take their place. this is not italy or england where other clubs are big. Like it or not Scottish football has 2 teams, for one not to be there is stupid and does nobody any good

The thing about rangers fans who think the spl is struggling financially because your club is not in the spl do you not realise this has been coming for a few year now and your club was the first to fall ?? no one was in as big a mess as yous your not the reason nor the answer your the classic example of the problem and theirs no way a club like hearts should be able to deal with it while a club the size of rangers fell first you seem to think liquidation was some sort of successful achievement that leads by example without realising other clubs are fighting to avoid going down that road and end up like yous

19) what? I dont understand what you are talking about, English next time would be nice

A decent debate at last. Cheers everybody.

@17 I actually said I would prefer that we worked our way up the leagues come what may. I still do. Reconstruction is an absolute must and has been for years but it doesn't necessarily have to include Rangers benefiting from it for the current set up to be improved upon. All I said was that SOME (not many) clubs may not have the luxury of waiting three years.

@16 Therein lies the problem.

@15 Lol. Very good Al. Txt, lol, n, and many others are now in the 'Dictionary of txt language' too, does that make them real words we should encourage our children to make use of? 'Yous' is also classed as 'Ghetto' (very appropriate then :-)) language in the Urban Dictionary and if I chose to treat it as such then 'my bad' I guess. Yes the post was long but valid points were raised worthy of debate. Others certainly appeared to think so (particularly No8 who came back with some great points). Join in instead of being pedantic, you never know you may even make a valid point yourself.

Tam. It was too long to proof read mate but I get the point you are making. By the way, a singular 'i' is treated as a capital 'I' if my genuine teacher's hat were to go on but then that would just be pettiness wouldn't it? The use of the word 'yous' is a pet hate of mine going back a long, long time (I just find it a lazy way to use/abuse the English language) and I couldn't care less who used it first or what team they supported to be honest. Used that many times in one paragraph was too much for me not to comment on. Just to clarify something though. I am not, and have never have been, anti-Celtic as you seem to imply in your post as half my family are of the blue persuasion and half are green. I am a half Catholic half Protestant atheist with no axe to grind in any form. I just happened to favour my Dad's team over my Mother's (and my wife's - a bit like Garlar07) Nor would I be allowed to be. It's this type of petty points scoring that annoys me on here and I am aware I am replying in kind which is even more annoying to me as I type this reply. If a Rangers fan had used it with such proliferation then I would have said the exact same thing. As far as competition goes answer me this one. Will Neil Lennon's job be on the line if, come February/March time, Celtic aren't top of the league and cruising to the title. It is tight just now because Celtic have, quite rightly, focussed on the very successful European run they embarked upon, not because the other teams are remotely close to Celtic in terms of ability, depth of squad or wealth. Are you telling me you honestly think any other team has a realistic chance of running you close in the league this season once they focus back upon the domestic scene during the CL break? An honest answer makes it competitive how exactly? I didn't actually question (or research) the fact that Celtic were in the top ten LAST season (why would I, it sounds perfectly plausible to me) and I stated as much. What I questioned was the use of the phrase "just under half a million" in attendances for nine games. Simple mathematics would suggest that you would have had to have had close on 55,000 (actually 'just' over that figure) at each match. The OP blew that possibility out of the water straight away. Yes, it was an estimate (I thought that pretty clear), but probably an accurate one if you consider the numbers involved. 420,000, for example, (which isn't 'just under' half a million) would equate to an average attendance of 46,666 which sounds far more realistic to me (and still highly impressive it has to be said!!).

@8,12,13 Taking your last point first (13) there are no certified accounts as yet as they are not required until the end of the financial year. If the situation remains the same in a year's time then that would be a valid point to raise. In relation to your other post (12) I have criticised the individualistic ethos of the SPL for years, questioned the rigid implication of the entry criteria and the financial burdens they placed on clubs, and have been highly critical on here in relation to the involvement of my team in the entire process. So yes, I was saying it pre-administration, and so were many others if the phone-ins following the initial findings of the McLeish Report were anything to go by last year. Fans from every team were. I will not dispute the points you made about Rangers in your CAPS section as they are all true and I have admitted as much already. My post isn't actually about Rangers (nor how or why we are where we are - that has been covered to death), it is about Scottish football as an (showing my age - not a mistake Tam!) holistic entity. The TV money has reduced in comparison to the previous one and, as yet, there has been no confirmation, as far as I have seen, that the clubs have received their full payment from it yet either. The McLeish report itself dealt in the realms of the hypothetical. All projections are based upon it initially (well researched or not). Why can't we? The question I asked was whether or not Celtic would have been as well off this year (minus the Champions League money) when compared to last year. The answer would be an unequivocal no unless a valuable player happened to be sold in January. That is all I was getting at. Yes, you would probably have sold a player or two to make up the shortfall if necessary but that is not the point I was making. Celtic were always going to remain financially sound come what may.

YOU highlighted the point of attendances in your post (admittedly in response to the OP) and I simply queried your figures. Until now I have shied away from it as it is a pointless and petty debate in my eyes (clearly you feel the same way), which masks the real issues we should be discussing on here. Also, I didn't question your figures from 2011 (I actually categorically stated as much) but thanks for highlighting the link anyway. I questioned whether or not, in your opinion, Celtic would remain in the top ten at the end of this season.

The first game I attended was as an eight year old in 1978 so I agree it is a long-term gig and not a one season wonder. Glory hunters follow both clubs and attendances drop when the team doesn't perform (or they feel there is no competition and can't be bothered on a winter's day). I concede a lot of our fans are blinkered (as are yours incidentally) but that doesn't take away from the fact that our game needs a drastic overhaul from top to bottom (the point of the post).

As far as the financial discrepancy between the clubs go I don't think that is what he meant. Celtic's debt is currently sitting at approximately 9m? It could be cleared at any point through the sale of one player if the club wished it to be but standard company practice implies that Celtic will operate with it as a perfectly manageable overdraft and invest in other areas (the team, renovations, merchandising opportunities, etc) as they deem appropriate. Green's ambition, from my perspective, is to have Rangers in the black at the end of the season (not necessarily debt free as he was quoted as saying - maybe the bank he is using won't give him one). Either way he is merely playing with words to score points. If given a choice I would rather be in Celtic's position financially than ours every time and twice on a Sunday. I am aware of some of Green's shadier past exploits and I DO find them concerning and I do not have blinkers on when it comes to Mr Green.

I will finish with one last question though, since my post IS NOT about Rangers. If Rangers were to receive no benefit from reconstruction whatsoever (thus taking them out of the equation) would you, or anyone else, raise a single objection to restructuring the game in the national interest as you appear to be doing now? The argument appears to be that we all agree it is necessary but it will not be supported if Rangers skip one division as a consequence for example. That is an entirely blinkered perspective to take in my opinion but, just to be clear, I would actually happily settle for Rangers receiving no short term benefit if it consequently aided our national game. We have to do something, surely, and I care about the future direction of our clubs and game.

Brian

@ 20 ... your club was the biggest financial disaster ever to hit scottish football thats why you got liquidated ... so your club is the last club in the world who should be offering advice to anyone so dont give us the spl need yous because all the spl clubs are still plying their trade while your facing liquidation orders the spl clubs might be struggling to balance the books but their still doing a far better job of it than your club did

@15 Brian at no time did i suggest that you are anti Celtic, I ( you alway's learn something new lol) only questioned why you brought it up when the word yous has been used on so many occasion's by various post's,wether they be Celtic Rangers Motherwell Partick Thistle.As far as Neil Lennon being on a sticky wicket if Celtic are not well ahead by Feb/ March I cannot predict that neither can you. As to your family being half and half mate that doe's not concern me because my Mrs and her family are of the blue persausion and at the end of the day we all come into and out of this world the same way. I will be honest and say I did not think I would read you slating someone because of the word's they use.
BTW you should have went with your Mum
lol.
Tam

Tam I had never really noticed its use before on here to be honest but as I said in the reply it was the number of times it was 'yous'ed, lol, that drove me to mention it (seven times in three sentences - just counted them). Wish I had never mentioned it now to be honest, despite it being a big bug bear of mine, because it has drawn attention away from the actual points I was making. The reason I explained part of my background was to further emphasise the point that I DIDN'T raise it specifically because the poster was a Celtic fan (which I took initially as you implying I had an anti-Celtic bias and picked on a Celtic fan in particular because of the club he supported), I have no agenda against any club or their fans and no real reason to have. It was just a passing comment.

As far as the footballing points go I was asking for your opinion regards how competitive the title race will be come Feb/Mar. There are plenty of predictions on here re how the share issue etc is going to go, for example, as well as how competitive the leagues will be. What's the difference if they are both hypothetical examples? Your reply, to be honest, strikes me as fudging the question because you don't like the answer you would have to give, given you are an honest guy. Green Jhedi is the absolute master at avoiding these sorts of questions when he doesn't like where they may lead. Has he been giving you lessons on dodging the ones you don't like the sound of, lol?

My Mum didn't go to the games but I was taken into the 'Jungle', as it was then, on many an occasion with my Uncles up until I was about 12/13. I thoroughly enjoyed both if I am being honest as I was treated to a game and a brilliant atmosphere almost every week (obviously I didn't understand the underlying sectarian issues, etc, going on at the time, but it turned out to be a Father/Son thing in the end up). Now, even after all that has gone on, I still wouldn't change if I were to wind the clock back and choose again. Too many good memories. Through thick and thin as they say.

Brian

@24 Do not feel as if i was fudging any answer because 1.I don't like to predict anything because it usually come's back and bite's you on the bum. 2. I would hope that Celtic are still in a european competition after Christmas,so will not assume they will be well in front come Feb / March. 3.Already answered the Neil Lennon question. I think you also asked about a single governing body, I have alway's said this should be the case. I will congratulate you on your stance regarding through thick and thin,we the real supporter's with NO hidden agenda hopefully will come to the fore.
Tam

Cheers Tam. A pleasure as always despite the fact we rarely completely agree or change each others mind on most points. Let's hope your last sentence does come to fruition but I won't be holding my breath, we are, and will remain, the minority unfortunately.

Brian

13 Nov 2012 15:00:30
i think hearts should get no special treatment regarding admin, if they had not voted us out of the league in the first place they would not be in this mess. seems to be rangers are getting more gate money and tv money than any of spl. just think of gate money they get when we went to tynecastle twice a season. FACT and watch the rest go down the pan as well, who laughing now

Rangers weren't voted out the league.

They ceased to exist, they were liquidated.

Nobody's laughing except for people who can't tell the difference between Liquidation and Administration.
No special treatment? Well if they go into administration then they will be deducted a minimum of 15 points which is 5 more than the Old Rangers were, so your right there will be no special treatment. And if worst comes to worst then the special treatment shown to The Rangers FC will ensure they are back in Scottish football as a new club next year. Get a grip you gloating fool.

13 Nov 2012 18:09:08
Sorry mate, i dont wish ill on any other team, even Celtic. Our issues were self inflicted after all. My main focus is Gers' getting back where they belong. RTID

This is the type of mentality we're getting from most Sevco fans. Please remember, Rangers are in Div 3 because of Rangers - no one else to blame

You seem to want the SPL to fold, the very league you aspire to be in, perhaps you should re-think your stance.

Anyway, you should hang fire because your own club's struggling financially and this share issue will fall flat on its face.

Miko x

Hearts had crazy debts 28m at one point.when rangers were I'm the spl now there put of the spl aye they will be losing money but not as if rangers pay 5m each visit....FACT

As for attendances...rangers having been giving tickets out for free ! Or pay a £1 for a ticket and £15 for a programme.

Hearts having been going to the wall for ages the problem they have just now is the same as whyte done ...not pay paye amounting into a debt.

Lenny

Hete we go again. Rangers were not voted out they went bankrupt. Thats the Word nobody wants to use. Dundee took their place. Theyve been to tynecastle once, crowd 13000. Capacity 17000. If it had been rangers and IF ground was full, that money would come nowhere near hearts debts. Get real.

Every aspect of this post is flawed. The Rangers weren't voted out of the SPL, they were not voted in, big difference.

The Rangers are probably getting decent money from gate receipts but Green has exaggerated attendances and has been issuing free tickets and some tickets for as little as a pound.

The Rangers are not getting more money than SPL clubs from TV. The SPL will receive £63 million in TV money over the next 5 years, the SFL £23million (fair enough the bulk of this is due to The Rangers but still considerably less than SPL).

Hearts have taken in £200k a year from 2 home games vs old Rangers in the past, this year they have received £100k from the SFA via UEFA for Celtics progression and if they last another 3 weeks will receive a good gate from the Hibs/Hearts SC tie.

As I said on another post, Hearts have had debts totalling £28 million for a few years now and have trimmed their wage bill considerably over the last few years. The £1.79m tax bill dates back to 2006 and have just been given time to pay the £450k bill over 2 installments. Expect Tynecastle to be packed out the next few games and Hearts will survive and the SPL will still be laughing at you in SFL3

All of these are FACTS.

G93

Hearts are only needing 450k to survive, and they will get that together. They will certainly have to sell players, trim the squad and lower the wage budget in january as they are running at a yearly 2 million deficit but they are in no way as bad a shape as Rangers were. The reason the hearts story has been given the doomsday treatment is because of the statement from fedotovas which was aimed at shocking Hearts fans into action. Its all because Mad Vlad has pulled his financial backing and is refusing to pay this 2 million shortfall every year. Hearts will survive but will have to cut they're cloth accordingly. Signing Ryan Stevenson by offering a better deal than Motherwell was nothing short of a disgrace as these money men must have seen this on the horizon.

MC Hammer is underwriting the share deal. Do Do Der Do Do, Got no Money!

@7) absolutely correct.
In addition, hearts have two home games against Dundee which makes up for some of any lost funds for no Rangers.

7 just because you say all your points are facts doesn't make it so and that is a fact. From what I can see in the SPL this year only two teams are worth paying cash to watch. Hibs are one. I laugh every time I watch the boring others and sigh at the final whistle thinking how far we have to go to be even half decent. Hearts will not survive in their current form, they have been late with wages and have not paid their ni or paye, they are in great difficulty.

So please. Don't give me the ' spl are laughing at you in SFL3'. The rest of the world are laughing at Scottish football as a whole, especially the spl.
I'm not a Celtic fan but they are at least making Europe pay attention with some good wins.

!2 If Heart's go to the wall, do you think the S.F.A. S.P.L will try and parachute them back into the S.P.L or division one like they tried to do with Rangers. Just a thought.
Tam

@ 11 I know it doesnt make them facts, was just having a go at OP.

That's your personal opinion on the standard, I'm sure it would be slightly more upbeat if the SPL had voted you back into the league.

Hearts will pay the £450k tax bill, they have been given a few months and it can be paid in 2 installments, £200k already raised, SC tie with Hibs coming up, Tynecastle will be packed vs St Mirren, further fundraising to come, after that I'm sure Romanov will work hard to get rid of the club, which works for the Hearts fans.

Everyone is laughing at The Rangers, not one club in the SPL is being laughed at, the SPL clubs are trying to regain a bit of respect that your old club totally destroyed and Celtic have been doing that in Europe.

I've noticed how much recently The Rangers fans have been talking about the SPL in recent terms, I'm not having a dig but how often have you called us Celtic fans obsessed with issues that don't regard us?

G93

13 Nov 2012 10:45:14
Where's this great Sevco support? I asked the question, who's pledged to the share issue? What response did I get?

Nada, niente, zilch........oh, my apologies, I got 5 disagrees.

Is this because a share issue has been released and you have no idea how the funds are to be administered? True, the prospectus has yet to be released, however Mr Green has asked for you all to pledge, without even a hint as to what your hard earned cash will do for your beloved club.

He's also stated that he will not be allowing the club to join the SPL whilst he's at the helm - what does he mean by that? Very odd!?!?

There's a catalogue of this man's ramblings which just do not add up, which I'm not going to elaborate on because I'm sure you're all aware of his inane caveats!

Minimum investment is 500 shares at an estimated £1-£1.50 per share, a lot of money by anyone's standards!

So, I'll ask the question again, who's pledged, officially or unofficially?

Come on, let's be havin ye!! lol

Miko x

I did and I'm proud to do so because my circumstances allow me too.

Don't come on here giving the high and mighty miko some of us whom are more fortunate than others can afford to pledge money into rangers.

I would not pledge every penny I have that would be silly but if I had it would I give it you better believe I would.

I was taught that many years ago and have never forgot it...

If you had it would you give it!!!

Jamie

I did reply and it went along the lines of Why in gods name would u be interested in whos pledging to the Rangers share issue at 9pm on a monday night seriously u have got a queer obsession with all things Rangers & Charles Green cant u just enjoy the Top Flight of Scottish Football & great success ur teams having in the group stages of the best Club Competition in the world, do u really have nothing better to do cant u put the shoes to ur wife play with your kids no course not 9 oclock monday night lets find out how many of the bears on the rangers rumours site have pledged to the share issue because that subject really interest me you make yourself sound so pathetic Hen get a grip

Larky Bear x

You got 3 replies to a crap post. Miko are Rangers your obsession? as you seem to spend a lot of time thinking about the Gers, why don't you come out of the Closet. "Hi, I'm Miko and I am a Rangers Fans" go on you know you want too. Snecky Bear

........or maybe it's because no-one's pledging, Snecky! Did that cross your mind?.....and I still managed a reply from your good self, what does that say about you? lol x

I'm not obsessed with Sevco, I'm fed up with listening to your supporters laughing at Hearts and the rest of the SPL struggling, just becauseyour club was punted out of the league!

It's true, your supporters have an agenda against the SPL, SFA and Scottish Football in general. I hear it most days......your arrogance is astounding, Oldco was an absolute mess and it was only going to go one way for your club. As a result everyone else is to blame, with the exception of Oldco/Sevco, whatever you want to call them.

Most Sevco fans I know are laughing at Hearts, where's the empathy? You were all outraged when it happened to you, now your laughing at a club and league's demise, a league you aspire to rejoin......doesn't make sense to me!

Sevco are where they are because of Oldco, no one else.....try to remember that!

Larky, ma wee sweetie, what you on about? Have you ever left Larky? lol x

Miko x

Miko, what a sad man you are. You really need to get a hobby or something. You have too much time on your hands my friend.

Firstly you make a fool of yourself every time you mention Sevco, because Sevco are not in any league in the country. Can you grow up and call us Rangers.

Green has said he won't lead team in SPL, what is funny about that. He clearly means that he does not believe SPL will exist and if it does he wants no part. So he will leave if that happens. Why can you not understand that? He wants no part of an organisation that is corrupt and tries to blackmail SFL teams to suit their wishes.

Minimum investment is £500, but why are you worried, you won't buy them and don't understand why you have any interest in a div three team with no history. Those that want to and can afford to will buy, those that don't want or don't have the means to do so will not. Not difficult for any normal person to understand.

I have pledged and am actually going to buy more shares than I pledged for, because I will buy some for my son. So now you have an answer, happy?

Miko is fishing, don't bite otherwise he will have his fun. Naughty Miko.

Miko. you're that guy that no-one talks to at parties (if you ever get invited to any). In case you just don't get it, everyone here thinks you're a total fandango so you're surprise at not getting a response to your original post isn't too much of a mystery.

It's just soooo easy!

Miko x

12 Nov 2012 18:08:26
Ed what are Walter Smiths duties as a non-executive director? This appointment seems to have given The Rangers board a bit of credibility and in the eyes of the fans if Sir Walter thinks it looks kosher then it must be, but he has no business experience and has no experience at such a senior level in football and was said to have lead a consortium to challenge the current regime. Non-executives tend to have very unspecific role, usually just offer their opinion in certain areas of an organisation. Is he there as a more Director of Football role? And is he just there to make the share issue look more attractive? I'm not sh!t stirring or fishing here, these are genuine questions as it seems rather unclear.

G93 {Ed001's Note - officially, he has few duties other than to offer advice. Difficult to know if he will actually have a truly defined role behind closed doors.}

I have no doubt hes been brought back to quietly assist Ally.

CC

Ed can you tell me if their will be any reduction in season ticket prices for the main stand for restricted view from the new cables being installed ?? i heard the cables will run from walters seat in the directors box right down to work his puppet in the dug out ??

14 Nov 2012 01:47:26
@2 aye cheers mate. Just woke one of the kids up laughing at that lol

12 Nov 2012 21:02:24
Out of interest, anyone on here pledged for the share issue?

.......and how do you see this money being invested?

Miko x

Im not putting my money anywhere near Charles green!not yet anyway in my opinion I do see the the rush? Still got a lot of questions to answer to convince me

That'll be no then!

Miko x

Miko why would that be of any interest too you at 9pm on a monday night seriously? You are relentless with stupid obsessions on all things Rangers, Hopefully the money cant be spent on a huge Timmy firewall to keep belters like you who put little xs at the end of there posts away!

Larky Bear