Rangers banter 99076


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01 Dec 2023 10:26:37
Been seeing a lot of chat around Cantwell this morning and I have to say I'm finding it a little annoying on 2 fronts:

1. The change last night and people saying "Lammers should have come off and Cantwell gone into 10".

IMO, that's a ridiculous position and if Clement had done that I would be questioning him this morning. He said it in his post match and the change he made to get McAusland to stay wide clearly made a difference. Cantwell was obviously asked to do a job and for whatever reason he didn't do it, he kept going inside and making us lopsided, playing where he wanted to play in the 10 rather than where the manager had asked him to play.

If PC takes Lammers off and puts Cantwell in 10, he's folded to Cantwell doing what he thought was best for him, not what he was told was best for the team and every single player in that dressing room, who know what the game plan was, would know that. He would have just set the precedent that if you don't like the managers game plan, just do what you want and the manager will fold to you.

Regardless of whether Lammers should be starting 10 (that's a different argument), for me the manager did 100% the right thing last night in hooking Cantwell. If any player won't do the job he's asked to do, that should be the outcome. Some may do the job badly, plenty did last night, but they still have to do what they're asked, not what they want.

2. The fawning over Cantwell and concern PC may sell him

So what. We now have a manager with some credentials who it seems knows what he's doing, just doesn't have the players to do it. If he deems Cantwell not the type for us that's entirely his right and I don't think we'd miss him in all honesty.

I said last season I had concerns when we signed Cantwell as Norwich are my English side and I've seen a lot of him. He didn't play for Norwich for mostly the same reasons he got hooked last night, he's an individual, not a team player who often had questionable work rate and was far too indulgent in his own hype. Now, when he came in with a point to prove I was pleasantly surprised as he didn't seem to have any of that last season. This season though I see in him the player I saw at Norwich, the selfish, indulgent individual who doesn't do what's best for the team and it shows in his numbers and performances.

At a very basic level, Lammers, Danillo and Dessers, all of whom we think aren't good enough, have better numbers than Cantwell this season. Lawrence, who has played about 4 games, has better numbers than Cantwell this season. McAusland, has better numbers than Cantwell this season.

He's a talented player, sure, but talent means nothing without product and if it's all about the individual and not the team. I'd like to see him stay and I'd like to see him get his head out his arse like he had last season, but if it came to a choice between the two I'd take Clement over Cantwell all day long.

He's not as good as he thinks he is, nor many of our fans think he is. For starters, he's not in Celtic's starting 11 and that's our benchmark to get above them. There's no way he starts ahead of McGregor, Hatate or O'Reily. That's the 3 we need to find better players than.

In short, as a support we need to stop being blinded by what Cantwell did last season and look at what he's done this season and this season he's been no better than any of the new signings we all think are terrible. If PC thinks the same, he'd be right and I certainly don't want the first decent manager we've had in years being undermined by any of our players not doing what they're told to do.

Agree10 Disagree0

01 Dec 2023 10:54:37
I posted a few weeks into the season that beale and his coaching staff were trying to get Cantwell _lto be more disciplined and play where he asked rather than run all over the park like a headless chicken leaving his area open to counter attacks.
John and others said that's his game
Well thankfully PC can see he's a liability when he decides to play where he wants.

01 Dec 2023 10:56:46
I agree with that gdog, but i also feel them wanting Cantwell played in the number 10 position are correct, but agree with what you said above, don't do as the manager wants off you come, but have no arguments with what done when he came off be more worried if he didn't react in that way.

01 Dec 2023 11:11:26
Good post Gdog -your point of stats of Lammers/ Danilo/ Dessers is fine but can't see Dessers or Lammmers from that group being able to take us to the next level imo - Cantwell will do a job for us given that he toes the line and follows orders like all our team need to do, so hopefully he will take it on the chin like a big boy and remedy this in upcoming games -its horrible getting the carrot of points catch up and def progressing in Europe to coming up short in these games - we will not always get these incentives put in our lap! PC is learning a lot about our squad and attitudes of players recently (defence especially) - not all for the good though - ( Butland and McCausland apart)

01 Dec 2023 11:22:18
Great post gdog.

My opinion on Todd cantwell has changed a lot this season.

I think he’s just the new Ryan Kent, all show and no end product.

I’d be happy to sell him in the summer and put that along with whatever else we pull back for others into a rebuild.

Say what u like about him, Hagi is a more productive player than cantwell.
That’s a fact proven by his numbers.

01 Dec 2023 11:27:03
Cantwell is a top footballer stevie.

01 Dec 2023 11:37:25
Good post GDog.

01 Dec 2023 11:46:16
Sorry stevie based on what, I don't get the Hagi is such a good player posts. Hrs done nothing at rangers to earn those comments.

01 Dec 2023 12:15:26
Doesn't matter if he's a top footballer, we need committed team players and players who will do as asked. I like Cantwell but if he's just about himself then bye bye off back to England you go. The change was needed and now even though PC admitted he knows Cantwell is best as a 10, he might not get to play there due to not doing as asked.

Good post Gdog.

01 Dec 2023 14:05:04
Utter nonsense, Lammers has been playing at No10 for weeks and apart from one game isn`t doing what he should be doing i. e creating chances and backing up the striker with goals, Cantwell has been playing out of position to accommodate him, but is struggling because he`s not a wide player . We all saw last season the goals and assists Todd can bring in a position that he is light years better than Lammers . We did need the width, it was right to bring McCausland on but there is no doubt, he should have hooked Lammers and moved Cantwell into a position that would let him create and link with Danilo. I`m not fawning over Cantwell I am basing it on what the boy did in his proper position last season when he was outstanding. A combination of playing with an injury and two successive managers playing him out of position have hindered his form . He starts at No10 as far as I`m concerned.

01 Dec 2023 14:13:08
i sit behind the dugout and PC was getting really pissed off with Cantwell not doing what he was asked to do. All these fancy flicks failed each time and the last one where he then lost the ball and they went on to score especially as he had made a run into the middle of the park was the last straw. He was right to be hooked for that.

01 Dec 2023 14:20:29
Just for the balance of the argument gdog. David turnbull and matt o'riley have better numbers than all our attackers. The problem is greater than where cantwell plays. And you cannot question his work rate.

01 Dec 2023 16:29:53
I wasn't suggesting the problem was anything to do with where Cantwell plays, I was suggesting he's not as good as he or many Rangers fans think he is, regardless of position, when comparing him to our rivals. And I absolutely can question his work rate.

He lost the ball for the goal last night AND STOPPED THROWING HIS HANDS UP. Not for the first time this season or even in this game.

Clement referenced it after the game in what was, in my opinion, a dig at Cantwell when he said "not only that but his reaction when he loses the ball is to go and get it back" about McAusland.

Maybe, just maybe wslgers Lammers HAS been doing what he has been asked to do by the manager he's just not very good at it, which I think is far more likely.

Taking Lammers off last night to get Cantwell over his own way was never then and isn't now the answer for any half decent manager. You can't disrespect any decent managers game plan and expect anything other than to get the hook and if Clement had caved and taken Lammers off then he'd be as well handing in his notice as not a single player in that dressing room would respect him for it. that's a Beale move, so I'm delighted he did the right thing and took Cantwell off. Sets the standard for doing their jobs.

And let's not forget, Clement isn't the first manager to take this approach with Cantwell either. This is the same reason he wasn't playing at Norwich.

If Cantwell is only going to do what he's asked to do when he thinks he's playing "in his proper position" and if not he's just going to do what he wants then he can do one. No-one plays for Rangers on their own terms, they do what the manager decides is best for the team.

Personally, I don't think he's that good and I would have no issue if Clement sold him. In reality he's one of the few who could potentially bring in funds through nothing more than reputation to bring in the players Clement wants. The reality that faces us at the moment is that outside of Butland there's not a player in the squad you couldn't argue needs to be replaced, Cantwell included.

01 Dec 2023 17:02:52
Great post gdog.

01 Dec 2023 17:04:32
He was far better last season that's for sure and his numbers could and should be better. However i think selling him is 100% not the right thing to do. Maybe this will serve as a wake up call to him. i'd be pissed off too if Lammers was playing in my position before me. A guy with 1 goal in 23 games and contributes nothing. Cantwell is the least of our problems right now, i like that he has the flair about him to try dribble etc when all we are doing is hopeful crosses into the box.

Yes he lost the ball for the goal which i was annoyed about but did you see the state of 2 defenders not taking command of a long ball? Remember twice against aberdeen the ball went right through the middle of defence to create one on ones.
Cantwell needs better around him. Nobody is close to him in ability. We have enough dross without getting rid of better players.

01 Dec 2023 17:32:58
Gdog surely you're not saying we won’t get 20 million for him in January

I believed those who said
Cantwell raskin and Cifuentes would all sell for twenty million each.

02 Dec 2023 11:09:45
Indeed John. :)

We'd be lucky to get double digits for Cantwell IMO.

Raskin is another I don't think is anywhere as good as may in our support think he is as I've said before.

The irony is that Raskin is good at all the things Cantwell isn't and vice versa. If you could mash them together you'd maybe have a £20 million player, but then that player would have been nowhere near us in the first place in the modern market.

I know this is off at a tangent, but I think we've become trapped in our own hubris a bot as far as transfers are concerned. I'm a longer in the tooth fan (not quite as long as you John :) ) but I remember us buying the best Scottish talent from the SPL through the years and that being a successful model.

Guys like McPherson, Brown, Ian Ferguson, Alan McLaren, McInnes, McCann, Dodds, Miller, Naismith, Boyd, Whittaker, Thomson etc. even big Petric

Guys who all had varying degrees of success at Rangers, kept an identity about us and knew how to get the job done in the bread and butter.

I think we've mistakenly been too proud in the last few years and passed up some fine talent locally who would have made a far bigger impact than any of the foreign dross we've brought in. Guys like Ferguson, Doig, Hickey, Shankland, Boyle etc.

I mean, let me ask this honestly, does Raskin for example offer anything different from little Devlin at Hearts? I'd argue no, both are limited footballers with great energy who are good at the ugly side of the game.

I'd like to see us looking more seriously at local talent and having a better balance between that and gambling on cheap foreigners. Granted, a lot of those ships have sailed now and there's slim pickings in the league, but there's always value to be had somewhere.

My concern is that our support treat those players the same way we treated Scott Wright (and many before him) because we're a little bit entitled.



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