Rangers Rumours Archive December 08 2012

 

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08 Dec 2012 21:58:02
How the hell have The Rangers spent £3.5M on wages in 3 months ?!?
That's half what Green said would be the ANNUAL wage bill!

Believable63 Unbelievable8

09 Dec 2012 00:52:16
Probably signing on fees from the summer signings...
Is that included Ed?? {Ed001's Note - it is likely that it also includes paying off players to leave.}

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Any signing fees would be ammortised over the length of the contract. {Ed001's Note - not always, that is the usual method, but it isn't compulsory.}

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£3 million in quarter includes Directors pay (yes Green gets paid, and got his original £25,000 back in first month as pay), then players, and back-room staff.

So £12million year total for salaries (plus NIC and PAYE to come!!) means its half original (which Whyte inflated remember) £27 m, but then income is about half as well (less ST, less CL money, less tv money etc etc etc)

So still looks like £10m loose per year, but useful that "negative goodwill" - is seen as income of £17million, ie buy ibrox of £3million and revalue it as £20million and call that £17 million income.... why not - its not real accounts after all.

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09 Dec 2012 11:47:07
anyone heard the funny joke about liverpool going to bid 5 million quid for samaras. aye right and i am going to win the euromillions. anyway ed what's your thought's on the appointment of james traynor as head of communication's at ibrox seems a bit strange to me when we have been saying for month's we don't like the bbc then we go and appoint one of their staff.


also heard chick young need's counselling as he is so upset that traynor got a job at his beloved rangers. cannot wait for only an excuse at new year bound to be sketches of traynor on it.

also the perfomance yesterday was shoddy we should be hammering teams like stirling at home cannot believe it took us 50 odd minutes to open the scoring but hey hey we won i guess that's what matters.

also nice to see all these tim's having a dig at us for going to boycott the dundee united game when they were talking about boycotting the killie game and also didnt they want to boycott dunfermline because we beat them 6-1. typical tims. {Ed001's Note - I am not convinced it is a good choice, head of communications is not journalism, but it is possible he is a natural at it.}

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Lol number 3 still determined to prove we are running at a massive loss anyway it ain't 3 months wages its 5 July August September October and November that works out at about 630'000 a month or 7.5mil a year

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Mr green been telling more porkie pies !
surly guys we can't b close to been in the same position as we were in February again. one crook replaced by an other crook. larkhall william

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I know and that's what put you in the $hit the first time,never learn.
TAM

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Lol number 5 the figures are based up to and including August 31, ie the first quarter, so wages of £3.5m for three months is alarmingly high. This figure won't be as high next quarter as this quarters was likely to inlcude payments made in the transfer window such as agent fees and payments to players who have now left, but it looks to be well over the £7m per year Green stated.

Also, Green states over £10m season ticket money in the bank untouched by mid-November, but in fact there was only half of the real value, £8.5m left by the end of August?

More porkies from Mr Green

G93

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@4: supporters can boycot who they want but ot is wrong for a club to openly do it.

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G93

Thing is we can't quantify how much,if anything was pay-offs or signing -on fees.We also don't know what bonuses the players are on so the figure may be higher,not lower.
We just don't know.

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11 Dec 2012 05:22:31
It's okay,ıt is not wages the money is going on it's ''loans'' to the players.LOL.

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Mr green started out saying the wage bill was £6m (in a iterview with jim traynor) he then said during the" tour" of tv and radio stations that the players wages were £7m. Now there's a big difference between "the players wages" and the over all wage bill. Remember we have over 200 employees from office staff to kitchen staff.Also see mr green is going to pay himself and a few sidekicks nearly £2m basic plus expeneces

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Kitchen(ibrox) staff are not directly employed by rangers azure manages that including waiting staff etc , fact is we don't earn as much as we used too , but we also don't spend the wages we used to nether ? What about the wages Davis , mcgregor , laughaminutey , whitshisnamer , Naismith were on when they were not in admin ? Quite a lot I would guess ?

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The individual player weekly rates are a lot higher than Green let on. It's the only way they would sign up to fourth tier. Money. They don't lovethe club or any that nonsense. Just like the guys who walked. The goalies on shocking money.
They won't even list Ally and Durrants packages.
Everybody is making; players, management, Directors.

Ed, how much you on for doing this? Keeping the Rangers blog going, helping the fans express themselves, propping up the brand and editing out damaging articles? ... {The Ed039's Note - eds are volunteers mate, we do it for the laughs mate)

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Ed39 you are so right I have near piss*d myself wi the stuff folk put on

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If the amount mentioned is for the quarter ending Aug. 31, then it includes the salaries of all those players who left the club in the summer.
Not one of the players now is paid anything near what Davis and Whittaker etc were on.
Wait for the next quarterly report, it should reflect a huge decrease in salary costs.

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There is no way we spent £3.5m on wages.if this is trued it shows miss managment and does not bow well for the futuer.

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08 Dec 2012 18:35:04
Anyone read the Prospectus. It seems to talk about 2 different companies. CG may as well have written it with a turd than bothered getting some poor to type it. Roll up Roll up. Notice where the assets are, Rangers International or The club. What a con.

Believable45 Unbelievable15

Shares in a shell. All the lucrative profit streams are farmed out to individuals and their companies which Green has an interest in. Catering, hospitality, security, bookings, merchandise, media,..... All other companies not under the international plc.

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Been pouring over it.
Bit worrying.
Some things surprising.
Must read it knowing Green wrote it and what it's trying to do.

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Note deeds of IBROX has not been checked.... wow why would you not check the deeds in a share offering?

Also green says no issues with SFA - but he got censured by them.

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All the other companys are owned by the rangers football club which will inturn be owned and operated by the rangers international

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Also states that murry park and ibrox are assets OWNED by the rangers football club

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If I buy a house a lawyer will check the title deeds to ensure there are no conflicts. It the most basic part if buying real estate but this prospectus states that the title deeds on Ibrox have not been checked. This really needs to be clarified before any cash is handed over for shares

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2nd post if you have been pouring over it and its a bit worrying, you will know cg never wrote it as you claim

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I have to say this is getting a bit worrying again same old same old with Green the guy is running the club like his own personel piggie bank lol, A other Whtye Knight only this time its a Green Knight you could not make this stuff up

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To people that are worried tell us what part yous are worried about please

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Fans/ investors are worried about


The fact that assets are not to be held by this club. no Ibrox no murry park no palyer contracts.

the fact that the shell company has no income stream other than share issues and dividend payments from newco rangers.

The fact that newco rangers appear to be going through money like water and clearly not sustainable in their present form.

there's three worries to begin with

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So if the assests arent to be held by the club who holds them? Its clearly stated in the prospectus that the clubs assets consist of murray park and ibrox

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No. Prospectus says the assets of the club are Ibrox and so on. It does not state ownership, it simply states that an asset of the club is playing at Ibrox. Read carefully. Between the lines.

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The all-seated50,987capacity stadium is owned byRFCLand houses a retail outlet, restaurants, function rooms and executive suites. On matchdays,the Club can accommodate and entertain up to 1,500 corporate clients and provides a variety of hospitality packages. Taken from the prospectus maybe before preaching about reading you would do well to do some reading yourself and also my previous post does not state who owns the assets it quite clearly says that they are an asset of the company...... ryan

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I dont see the albion car park named any where dous this mean the rumour that it is going about that it is the part of rfc that is claimed if tht loan of 5-12 millions from metro bank is not paid they get the albion car park

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Why would the Albion Car Park be listed as an asset it hasn't been "owned" by the club or company for years and years.

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We were told Green bought Ibrox, MP and the Albion car park and players contracts for £5.5m. Published in all newspapers and reported on TV. Was that all lies?

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Look guys it doesn't matter CG says corporate institutional investors will buy all the shares if fans don't.
And he sticks by his statement he'll buy them all if no one else wants them.
STV 11 Decemer 2012. 10.40pm.

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13 Dec 2012 10:25:53
green &co have no money to buy anything they have to jan to pay metro bank some of the millions they borrowed also the share price is roughly 72p per share the price should be about 22p to 28p

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08 Dec 2012 17:30:45
My very first impression is:

Wages of 3.5m over 3months, equals an approx 14.5m a year wage bill. 45 players, with 175 staff total... wow.

Expenses of approx 2m = another 8m a year. Payments to directors, assuming promotion bonus' is another 2-3m.

That all equals 24.5m a year.

Revenue was 1.7m, based on 3 home matches. Lets assume 22 home games this season. That would give around 12.5m in revenue.

Another way to look at this is that they received 8m in season ticket revenue. They only have 4m left in the bank on 31st of August. That bank balance can't be too healthy now - no wonder the share issue has been rushed through.

Believable53 Unbelievable15

2-3 million for promotion to the 2nd division? you dont even get that for winning the spl, never mind giving it out in bonuses, your saying expenses for 12 months, we dont play football for 12 months, you added to 4-5 million for what?

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22 home games? Lol.
You forgot everything has one fifth (20%) vat due on it. I don't want to hear fans complain HMRC is unfairly chasing them when CG is pulled up for under paying vat, NI and PAYE.
How much does a Director like Traynor get paid? His job is the PR sale to gullible fans on shares.

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£4m in bank on 31st August. Ffs its mid December that's almost 4 months ago.... That money is gone! CG told us the season ticket money (£10m) was in the bank untouched (said it 5 weeks ago mid November).
What's the cash in bank now? Or say 30 November?

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And it clearly states that there is only enough working capital for 18 months - promotion and increased season ticket prices will be a must to survive.

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18months working captial is actually quite big considering sime clubs live week to week / month to month

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Based on 3 home games of which 2 were cup games meanin the revenue was split

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Don't believe what it states.
There was only £3.5m in the bank in August, how can there be 18 months working capital when 3 months wages is £3.5m?
The share issue is needed as Green has stated as working capital/ operating expenditure.
In afraid everything is as bad as previously stated. Just the recent BBC leaked doc to the stock exchange was ridiculously upbeat to lesson the shock of the prospectus.

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When people were speculating about the Rangers wages, Green categorically said he got it down to £7m per year.
Remember the American Forbes magazine article? {Ed001's Note - the wage costs listed will include signing fees and paying off players who left. Even when you sell a player you have to pay up a percentage of his remaining contract, unless he hands in a written transfer request.}

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Dosent the wages also reflect all non playin staff aswel {Ed001's Note - yes.}

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{Ed001's Note - the wage costs listed will include signing fees and paying off players who left. Even when you sell a player you have to pay up a percentage of his remaining contract, unless he hands in a written transfer request.}

This will be correct I'm sure Ed.
thing is,most players walked away and didn't TUPE over to Newco(story yesterday that 67 ex employees are taking RFC to a tribunal for unpaid cash,being advised by the SPFA).
also,I don't see there being much signing on fees.Who did we sign that would cost any large amount of money?.
The prospectus also states that monies raised would be used for "working capital".In effect,the cash is needed to pay the day to day running costs.Alarm bells should be ringing with that revelation. {Ed001's Note - Templeton got a considerable signing fee, I am told.}

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All the experts in finance has told ther clients don't touch rangers with a barge pole this is not a witch hunt against rangers this is ther advice cous it's ther job ,well greens job is to sell rangers and the only ones that will buy a share is rangers fans he will lie to you all you just have to ask Sheffield untd fans or are they liers as well this guy is in too make as much money out of rangers as possible and the front with that he is loyal and going too make rangers a force in football it's lies all lies and when he jumps ship and leaves rangers with nothing smith and co will do a disappear ing act again untill some one else comes in they are all in it for the money and rangers is getting passed around like a blow up doll in a jail ,like it or not rangers will never be the club they were because it will be one punter like green after another trying to make his buck the sad truth is that rangers will be a nott forest or Leeds once were warriors but in the Scottish league were there's no money I will give it till the end of the year and ther will be another twist in the on going saga that is called rangers

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Ed would rangers need to pay a pay off fee for those players who walked away for nothing ?.
Tam {Ed001's Note - that depends on whether they did just walk away or the club asked them to go to reduce wages.}

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We got money for davis and mcccabe that i casn think of what happens thens, do we pay them the players money also?

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Signing on fees are still wages, I seem to recall threads on here discussing the likely level of wages as being around £12 million that others doubted. Looks like that estimate was not far away.

You say players pay offs? who got sold and was due a pay off? Possibly edu? I 'd dont think players get pay offs for going on loan.

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Bocanegra, Goian and Broadfoot played in the opening games at the start of August so would have been receiving their full wages for over two months of the period in question. Edu would have received his full wage, despite not making himself available to play, until he departed club. Also, we don't know if the loan deals for Bocanegra and Goian cover 100% of their wages or just a percentage. These guys were all on the same wages they were on with the Oldco and would have been the main earners during the period. Then there are the points Ed001 made to take into consideration, signing on fees etc. Realistically the wages for the three months since September will have been far less than £3.5m.

The concern I have is nothing to do with finances. DM Hall not seeing the title deeds is the part that is worrying me, although they do state that Ibrox and Murray Park belong to RFCL. No mention of the Albion in there either as far as I saw, surely if that was an asset then it would have been listed? Otherwise, maximising merchandising and renovating stores, maximising TV revenue and media rights in particular from abroad, ground repairs etc all seemed logical and sound directions for the club to go in and viable reasons for investment (I don't have the cash spare or I probably would have). We will soon know if it is a hit or a miss shortly I suppose.

Brian

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Rangers won't become another Notts Forrest or Leeds for numerous reasons. The Scottish league is nowhere near as strong as the English leagues in terms of top quality clubs (clubs not teams on the pitch) in the top leagues of their FA. We currently have two with a handful of decent, consistent clubs in between them (currently) who will likely remain in the top league permanently and that is it. Then there are finances to consider. Yet again two teams: Celtic are streets ahead at the moment mainly thanks to their European run this year but after them Rangers remain able to pay more in wages than teams three divisions above them, mainly due to the size of our fanbase. We should get back to back promotions quite comfortably, that is not arrogance it is common sense looking at the above. Finally, these people will not make money through an administration event, they will make it from returning the club to the top flight and European football. it is in their best interests to do as they say they will in the prospectus. That is how they will make their money.

Brian

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I think the car park is leased to rangers and not actually an asset

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Brian you are spot on, but green states clearly he does not want anything to do with the spl, so how can rangers play in europe

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Green has put all his eggs in the one basket in that regard and he is reliant on non SPL led league reconstruction occurring within the next three years. He makes a big issue of it in the prospectus. Otherwise he said he would put it to the fans to decide. He claims that he would walk away if the answer was yes and let someone else lead the club into the SPL as he will have no dealings with them (didn't mention competing in SPL2 if that opportunity arose though or whether or not he would take an alternative position on the board). His words were "under my stewardship" with regards re-entering the SPL. Alternatively we could win the Scottish Cup (highly doubtful this year with the squad we currently have but we couldn't compete in Europe until 2014/15 season anyway) and enter the Europa league that way. That was also in the prospectus with Green saying he may query the ruling if we did win it but he wouldn't be hopeful of receiving a favourable response, lol. He certainly has many, many faults but I quite like him and am willing to give him time to prove himself.

Brian

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OP... 3.5m for 3 months = 14.5m a year? The school I went to there was 12 months in a year... Therefore 3.5m x 4 = 14m?! You are quite clearly talking ****e!!

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At least you got 2m x 4 to be 8m, well done!

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"I think the car park is leased to rangers and not actually an asset"
Spot on mate, it has been like that for at least fifteen years. Bank of Scotland bought it from Murray and leased it back at a peppercorn rate one of many such deals between BoS and Murray at that time.

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Cheers for the info on the Albion guys.

Brian

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Brian - He certainly has many, many faults but I quite like him and am willing to give him time to prove himself.

Sadly see this as major reconstruction job needing guardian angel, or loaded dedicated investor - and he is clearly neither.

Clearly him and imran take £360,000 each and the directors and expenses see that hitting £1 million per year, in business that has been losing £10m/year even with huge crowds. So three-years to get back to SPL and that £3million gone (while celtic may see same salaries for thier directors, they can win £20+ million in CL alone).

Should gers make it back to SPL or SPL2 - then a bonus kicks in (another £1million) at just the time more players will be needed - not more slapping backs.

So dont share your enthusiam brian, that hes ok. Needs to be miracle worker - not gold-digger or leech. Dont mind making a mint if he recovers club to glories - but if makes a mint as they recover - less likely they will make any impact when they get back.

Celtic will have £30-50 million advantage at the least.....

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If its true Green only put in £25,000 and he gets this in salary alone each month, then after first month he in profit, and does not need to sell RANGERS at end to make profile (if Murray could not sell as going concern - will green)....

if this true he not in it for long term, and only as long as it lasts...... but each month he in profit and on a freeroll of the dice.... and wont care if it folds or goes bust again.

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@"sadly see this as a major reconstruction job..."

It is, no argument there.

Did wee Fergus not take money out of Celtic when it went through its major reconstruction?

Did Fergus not walk away with mega millions out of the deal? He could hardly be described as a guardian angel but he was definitely an astute businessman who knew how to make a profit. Time will tell if Green is the same. Fergus got it tight from a large percentage of the Celtic support and the majority of ours for admitting he was only in it for the money (just as Green did) but he ended up doing a spectacular job and walked away with a massive, well deserved handshake. I am hoping (no-one can say for sure one way or the other) for the same here and Green walks with a fortune.

Celtic will be streets ahead of us no matter what but how far depends on their continuous qualification for the CL and that is not guaranteed as the qualifying rounds are set to get harder and harder.

Green will not overspend and will give Ally just enough to ensure we get through the divisions. I don't expect us to be competitively challenging for the title for two or three years after that either as if he does have any financial sense he will realise it takes time and slowly bulk up the squad.

He needs to follow Celtic's example of investing in the scouting system and relying on youth prospects. Identifying players, buying them young and selling them on for a tidy profit. Rangers have always been considered as a buying club but look where that got us. This will require patience and an acceptance that every club in Scotland, including us, are now selling clubs. If he gets us back competing again within the next five years then, in my opinion, he will have earned his money. I am not against him taking a big wage home unless it risks putting us back in admin and since we have enough working capital for the next 18 months I don't see the issue. It will only become an issue if he doesn't achieve the above. I am categorically not stating I trust him 100% but I am willing to give him time to prove himself.

The one bit that did particularly peeve me off in the prospectus was the fact that Imrhan took 25% interest on a 2 month £200,000 loan and pocketed £50k for what appears to be hee-haw on top of his salary. Most financial backers involved in football would not do that as they would regard it as detrimental to the clubs finances and, if anything, would take the basic value of interest back at most. Don't mind him taking a wage either, if he is earning it and working in the best interests of the club, but that was out of order to me.

Brian

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Dont Rangers sell merchandise anymore? or hospitality? or get any money from TV? I think you will find we still get SPL standard TV money as we are the 2nd most televised team in the country.

Jas

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Jas. I think we get 51% of the merchandising through our collaboration with Sports Direct. We do receive our full corporate turnover which, when in the SPL at least, was substantial. However, as far as the TV deal goes we receive very, very little in comparison to the SPL as we are only entitled to an equal percentage of the money accrued through the SFL deal which is split between all the SFL clubs.

Brian

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13 Dec 2012 18:39:03
Brian your totally wrong. In the words of Fergus. "I won't take one thin Dime out of Celtic" And he didn't until he sold his shares.

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08 Dec 2012 15:46:56
Prospectus for share issue now online

http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/rifc-prospectus.pdf

Believable7 Unbelievable8

If we are debt free why are we paying £172k in interest over 3 months??

Still don't trust Green. I will buy shares but only once they have started trading so i can buy in dribs and drabs.

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08 Dec 2012 15:38:36
Did anyone hear chick young saying that Rangers are going to sign two top drawer SPL players after embargo lifted?

Is this a load of crap or serious?

He said he couldnt name them!

Believable15 Unbelievable33

Jabba tipped him the wink.
They're great mates....

Sad thing is Chick fell for it.
Rangers cannot sign until January window 2014.

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It's true we already signed a couple of good SPL players for the 3rd templeton shields. Of course we will be looking to add more young quality as soon as we can

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Dont beleive this McCoist could not spot a good player at 100 yards I have a good source in Ibrox that tells me 1 player has been in talks Steven Thompson St Mirren

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Thompson signs then kyle would need to go? and by the time thompson did sign if true, 35-36? no thanks

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A heard its Jamie murphy and Hutchinson from Motherwell on pre contract jan 13

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10 Dec 2012 17:57:42
It's been in the papers for a few days about Murphy, but the new one about young Ryan Fraser from Aberdeen has been in the paper today. although i can't read the article.. They are probs the two your after!

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The truth rangers can not sign anyone on football contract till sep 2013 not jan free agents so players out of contract this summer could wait till sept then sign ?

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Who could he be talking about? because there aren't any "top drawer players" in the SPL 😂

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08 Dec 2012 12:14:44
Rangers: Jim Traynor appointed Ibrox director of communication!!!!!!

Believable26 Unbelievable24

Sound appointment by the rangers!

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Traynor is a well known Celtic fan. Always has been. Don't expect him to give that up.
In whose universe is this tabloid hack a Director of Communications? Given he's slagged off bloggers, slammed the internet, other journalists, etc...
He's disingenuous at best. Wrong move Charles. Who's pulling Charles' strings?

I'll eventually be hailed a hero by all Rangers fans.- Craig Whyte.

SDM behind everything. Not even hiding it now. Why isn't Murray Park renamed?

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By James Traynor. The new new Director of communication ! 13 Jun 2012 12:59

Rangers will slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended.

No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died.

They were closed and a newco must start from scratch although their fans will insist the history will be boxed up with the strips and balls and carried into the future with the new club.

Technically that history belongs to something else, some other company!

So what's ur take on that bears?! Ha

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Can't believe Charles Green is going to pay him for doing something he's done for years for free!! At least the public broadcaster won't be footing the bill for his septic propaganda.

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08 Dec 2012 11:34:44
Just got the email, looks like it is on bears

We are writing to you as you are a Rangers fan (and someone who is resident in the United Kingdom) to notify you that a prospectus (the "Prospectus") detailing an offer to purchase shares in Rangers International Football Club plc ("The Club") has been published and can be obtained: www.rangersshareoffer.com JG

Believable7 Unbelievable12

08 Dec 2012 09:56:23
Walter Smith won't become a Rangers International director until AFTER the long promised share issue.

In October Charles Green announced his intention to list the club on the AIM before Christmas but has yet to produce a prospectus for potential investors to study.

The appointment of Smith as a non-executive director was hailed as a masterstroke by Green but the former Rangers boss has still to take his seat on the board.

Smith's appointment was billed as bringing some football know how onto the board but the former Scotland boss is in no mood to build bridges with his other clubs.

Believable7 Unbelievable13

Prospectus was published last night. Walter is listed as non executive director, £50k per annum.

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He cant as he was listed as a director of your old club he cant take a new one for 5 years

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Smith wasnt a director of rangers at any stage

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He was never a director in any form but he was most certainly a manager on an EBT. Hop he is going to pay back the alleged loan. He has already screwed Rangers dont let him do it again, why is he back because no other club wanted him .

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How has smith taking a ebt screwed rangers? the loans were not from rangers football club, but david murrays mih, so why would you be concerned what happens to his money?

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OP Doe's that mean Charlie can't pay him just now ?. If that is the case, why is Watty backing him just now?, is he being used to dupe supporter's to buy into the share issue and hoping he will get a big pay off. Just wondering like.
Tam

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