Rangers Rumours Archive April 06 2012

 

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06 Apr 2012 22:06:47
From a colleague in company law in London, CW linked to Singapore bid 20m. Finder fee for CW and 12 for creditors. BTC accepted by Singapore as the trigger for liquidation. As the new owners Singapore will get 8m back as secured creditors, which they will add another 8m to buy the assets. Therefore owning debt free newco for 20m. Business plan is to run for three years and sell for 60m at least just as European ban could be lifted. Therefore goodnight history 4m for Whyte and 40 m for Singapore. SFA/SPL/UEFA discussions have confirmed three year sanction package, out of Europe and entry to SFL 1 with 25 point deduction, all this being discussed with D and P in the last week. BTC will be announced at end of May.

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Good one timmy, how long did it take you to make up that tripe lol....JSM

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Suprised they spelt SFA right lol

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A colleague who dwells on the moon tells me that Saturn & Venus may well line up with Jupiter at some undetermined time in the future or even in the past & Mars, Mercury,Neptune & Uranus have arranged a collective huff to mark this event!

See how easy it is talk utter rubbish!!!
ThatsNotMyName

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Your colleague in London , it would be easier to tell us which company CW is not involved in. As all you hear is that he is involved with every group that is interested in the purchase of RFC.

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By the reaction of the answers here it is obvious that there are quite a few smart a£ses on. the ones that don't care about the true supporter they will probably come back with i have supported rfc for so many years. you did not support, you were carried along with success you are not a true fan.......b

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Thanks for that b, good point. Also previous poster is right about CW, he is getting paid to some extent by all three bidders for his shares, the difference with the Singapore bid is sadly that he has been involved with this from the beginning, mr ng being a large shareholder of ticketus.

As I noted above it will be a two stage process, cva by 20th april, fans happy, BTC announced at end of season, swift liquidation, newco ready to compete in SFL1 for start of new season. Fans reaction will be diluted due to close season. As I said previously, I believe the deal to be done. Incidentally to the posters above, I am a Rangers fan, first visit to Ibrox 1966, so no Timmy agenda, also to the other poster, I hope I have 'spelt' spelled properly. TT

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It would not surprise me if the suits currently running Hectors House actually pulled a move like this off.
It would still leave a bad taste in the mouth of every football fan who's teams struggle to pay their dues and taxes, and who don't take the easy route out.

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If you can stand back and take an objective view of the OP, it actually sounds totally feasible. The usual 'you're a tim' brigade can't handle it just because they don't like the sound of it. I wonder if, when they hear a song on the radio they don't like, they scream at the artist and DJ, 'Shut it, Timmy!'.

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Just 2 questions, First who exactly are the Blue Knights? (the old guard in disguise?) Secondly why have the names of all the individuals involved in the EBT case not been disclosed? you cannot go forward until you know & accept what went wrong in the first place

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What about the dual contract issue, what will the punishment be? How many titles to be declared void?

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I wonder what reaction we will now get from the Hector fans now that we are champions.......

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How sweet is today's title triumph for Celtic. After all the off field problems that have faced our fantastic club we have finally broken their cheating ways and won the title as their club's years of cheating is unravelling. As for tainted titles, don't worry about that, the Celtic family will soon polish it up and remove all grubby signs that it was cheatingly in the hands of Scotland's Shame. GBNL.

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06 Apr 2012 22:45:29
JJ says:
06/04/2012 at 1:43 pm
118 2 i
Rate This
Jim Delahvnt on Clyde at lunch time saying he was just off the phone to Whyte. Most revealing thing for me was Whyte claiming he had offered HMRC £2.5 million a year to pay off the debt “no matter how long it took”. Unsurprisingly, he was told to do one.

I deal with HMRC on behalf of some high net worth clients. It goes against their published policy to do deals with anyone who has indulged in tactics such as failing to remit PAYE or misuse EBTs. Anyone who says different has no experience of real life and taxes.

If HMRC did not follow their own policy, (they will) EVERY other defaulter would simply do the same and the Public Exchequer would suffer to a massive extent. The biggest load of absolute rubbish (and there have been plenty of choices!) was the statementask few weeks ago that the Treasury had “sanctioned” a deal. In the first place, the Treasury cannot interfere in such cases, and in the second place, it is beyond parody that they would OK a penny in the pounds deal when so many other EBT cases are to proceed to a Tribunal.

But then what do I know? Only 20 years with HMRC, a two year secondment to the Treasury, followed by 10 years with one of the largest accountancy firms in the UK.

This is from JJ on RTC

Believable38 Unbelievable28

HMRC do deals all the time.

CJM

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Well said. Made my day.

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Your forgetting. We are the club of the "establishment". Same rules dont apply to us ;-)

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Im more surprised no one has called you a Timmy because they didn't like what you had to say

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To quote chewing the fat " I smell s**te, yes I smell bulls**te"

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So why did they let vodafone off with a 12 billion tax bill??

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What about Amazon? what about HMRC turning a blind eye to the financial corruption that goes on in the City Of London that costs us billions?

Instead of posting your big elaborate story you might as well have posted "Hi, bitter wee bhoy here that can't wait to see the Gers liqudated"

It's parasites like you who work for a system (HMRC) that's main function is to screw us little people while allowing big corporations like Vodaphone and Amazon away with billions that are owed to the tax payers..

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^^^ Well said!... OP gone very quiet.

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Cos vodafone phone generated economy growth, sales and dividends which amounted to far more than 12billion???

Also vodka phone a one off

There could be 4000 ebt cases, why would hmrc let of with a deal (pennies in pound) for the first to court ????? {Ed001's Note - rubbish, it was because the boss took the guy who made the decision out for a slap up meal on a regular basis. That was why Vodafone have been allowed to steal billions of pounds in tax money. They have been doing it for years.}

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Vodafone threatened to move their operations overseas, PLCs can do this Sporting establishments can, I am a Rangers fan currently doing a degree in finical law, I am afraid the poster is right with most of the post, HMRC have a strong hand, it's Rangers assets that are under threat, it's now 7th of April and all debts will follow newco.

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Post-Vodafone and Goldman Sachs debacles there will be no more deals like that.

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Assume you just started your degree course because there is no new law carrying debts to newco

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What p**h are they teaching you in financial law? as there is no law coming in this year that any form of company debts follow onto the newco company!!

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You make some convincing points albeit dosent mean you are correct as you arent party to the tax tribunal details. I think you miss one important fact, this isnt about a business going down, this is about scottish football going down, against a background of potential independnce talk, get it ?

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Hang on, what I don't get is that if you are saying that post 6th April 2012, the liquidation of any company registered with companies house, will have it's debts carried over into any resultant newco?

So if one of the bidders liquidates Glasgow Rangers and starts up Rangers 2012, then the debt is still there which rangers 2012 cannot service so then they will have to either agree some kind of settlement or get nothing.

Bit of a vicious circle!

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The change of Law on 6th April does not apply to Rangers circumstances.
The 'debt' does not follow Newco.
If RFC are liquidates - the Newco - 'clone Rangers' will indeed be debt free.

However, the new law would allow HMRC to demand Tax money upfront for future taxes due, rather than in arrears as now happens. This would prevent a repeat of what Craig Whyte did (withholding PAYE & NI) in the last 9 months prior to administration, because the money would have to be handed over before it woud normally be due, and if it wasn't HMRC could file for insolvency against Newco before it even started trading.

However, the rules over what consitutes a newco - whether this would actually apply to 'clone rangers' - actually makes even this unlikely.

If the same directors were running newco, then the pheonix legislation would probably apply. However, since Whyte/Withey and Grier (The RFC directors on entering administration) are not likely to be allowed to sit on the board of any FC, let alone clone Rangers, not least through failing the FPP test, HMRC may struggle to get the Pheonix legislation applied in the case of Clone Rangers. Whether they would even try is a moot point, but it could make for an interesting legal precedent.

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Http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/thelibrary/tax-paye/PAYE_Sec_QA.pdf

Deals with the new law which came into force on wait for it 6th April 2012 - which deals with phoenixism....

the art where a company goes into liquidiation and a phoenix (arising from the ashes for those without the classical education) arises free of the debts of its predecessor...

So yes, a new law exists and now rangers new or old are trapped with thier existing debts.

HRMC WILL be paid, in cash or bricks from ibrox.

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So yes, a new law exists and now rangers new or old are trapped with thier existing debts.
_______________

Wrong: Read your own link:

The Law entitles HMRC to demand SECURITY (i.e. advance payment) against FUTURE PAYE and NI liabilities. It does not make a Pheonix company liable for Tax owed prior to liquidation.

Whether this would apply depends on whether HMRC trusts Newco to pay up when due. And this depends on who is running it. If Paul Murray and/or Dave King is involved, HMRC may take the view that security is necessary since PM was an RFC director when EBTs were running, and King has one or two issues of his own with the South African tax authorities. If the directors of Newco are 'clean', then newco may escape the security requirement.

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06 Apr 2012 20:44:29
SINGAPORE — The Singaporean boss of a local football club is behind one of four bids for cash-strapped Scottish champions Rangers, media reports said on Friday.
Bill Ng, the chairman of Hougang United, told media he is leading a Singapore-based consortium that hopes to be the winning bid for the Glasgow giants.
Administrators have received four bids for the venerable 140-year-old club including one fronted by former Rangers director Paul Murray and from groups based in Singapore, Germany and the United States.
The administrators said Thursday they would consider three of the four bids submitted.
"The weakness lies in the people who run the club and I feel that we can do something better," Ng was quoted as saying by the New Paper.
Neither Ng nor staff at his Singapore club were available to confirm the bid when calls were made to Hougang United by AFP.
The New Paper said Ng's group likely submitted a bid of around 20 million pounds ($32 million) for Rangers and the bulk of the money would be used for paying off its creditors.
The bid by Ng's Singapore-based consortium marks the second time investors from the wealthy city-state have attempted to buy a British football club.
Singaporean billionaire Peter Lim in 2010 attempted unsuccessfully to buy English club Liverpool for 320 million pounds.
Administrators were called in to Rangers on February 14 after British tax authorities went to court to seek payment of an unpaid bill of nine million pounds ($14m) built up since owner Craig Whyte took charge at Ibrox in May last year.
Administration is the process whereby a company that cannot pay its debts calls upon independent expert financial help in a bid to remain operational.

This is his quote to AFP

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That is not a Quote! That is a rumour printed in that newspaper. That is made clear by the comment "No one from his club available to comment" To AFP.

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It wasn't in a newspaper - it was on Asian TV Channels. Bill Ng's your man.

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How many people have lost their jobs because rfc did not pay their debts and how many of these companys would deal with rfc again

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"The weakness lies in the people who run the club and I feel that we can do something better," Ng was quoted as saying by the New Paper.

is this not a quote??

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06 Apr 2012 18:53:42
Speaking about his plans for the first time on Friday, Mr Ng said: "This is a chance to put Singapore on the world football map. We're not just doing this for financial reasons. If we take over Rangers, we've got plans that will positively impact Singapore football in the long run."

The 52-year-old also outlined the nature of his offer, explaining: "We've told the administrators that we'll set aside £12m to be split among the creditors. For every dollar of debt the club owes, about 20 cents will be paid back, while the rest will be written off."...jsm

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Does that mean ,rangers fans will be getting a wee taste of sweet & sour shortly.

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20 cents/£12m= £60m

That means they don't expect to have to pay any BTC. Sounds like their offer is conditional on BTC decision going Rangers way.

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I hope this guy gets rangers he seems to have good plans for us but 12 mill sounds a bit weak Anyone else agree

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I really hope this guy is the front runner... jsm

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I tell yea what your you Rangers fans do love the bouncy bouncy don't you. up and down up and down. for feck sake you are all going to have heart attacks. Sit back calm down. You can not dictate what is going to happen one way or the other. Bad enough you have ripped off the Police, Ambulance service , council, electricity board, and the wee newsagent, The last thing we need is the hospitals full of THE PEOPLE. If Rangers die you will never forget them but you will live on and find new interests.
The Doc

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A dandy here and I really hope for Rangers fans worldwide(many of whom) are friends I really hope you guys get the right backer. Never been one for gloating at things like this as people with any sense realise that every club in Scotland could face the same thing and despite the rhetoric from your near neighbours Scotland's needs a strong Rangers. I for one hope those that got you into this mess get their collars felt and the people that come in are transparent as feasibly possible so no other club has to go through this

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20million not a chance. What a cheek!

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Oh what it must be like to be a Celtic fan eh. One one hand they're desperate for Rangers to be liquidated and start as a newco, so they can say the history of our club is lost forever. One the other hand if a cva route is accepted they'll be pig sick coz the history wasn't wiped out.

Here's one for them to think about - if we do go down the newco route the buyers will be able to invest money they don't have to set aside to pay creditors - that means possible more money to invest in the team.
Either way when we win the league it'll be no 55 of a long list or no 1 of a new era. If it's the latter it'll probably make them spew even more coz they won't have anything they can rake up.

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And I suppose they love throwing their money away, or have they a tax dodge in mind, Because your club fit and healthy with all your dodges and scamming was still running at a £26 million a year loss?

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Can someone please interpret what the comment above is supposed to mean?

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I as a celtic fan had some sympathy for rangers and the situation you find yourselves in...Im afraid after learning the you owe st john ambulance approx £8k all my sympathy has gone...ally mccoist said that nothing we now know came as a surprise to him!..how can he sleep at night knowing all along this was the case...my sympathy is now gone and to be honest the sooner you die the better for the whole of scottish society..

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Bill Ng is, in effect, offering 20 pence in the pound for a CVA which might be considered as more than reasonable. If the EBT case liability was to double the circa 56 Million reported, this would still be an offer of around 10 pence in the pound. As I suggested previously, if HMRC refuse to enter a CVA with Rangers it then sets a precedent for all of the English Clubs it would be obliged to pursue. What happens then? If (as suggested) Liverpool's predicament is greater than ours, does this mean Liverpool would go the newco route because HMRC had already set a precedent against entering CVA's? Liverpool would most likely be forced down a newco route as would a number of others most likely. HMRC would then be stuck with little or nothing unless the new law that comes into force today also allows a level of clemency to offenders.

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Why would Rangers owe st johns ambulance service? they don`t operate in Scotland.
Maybe Rangers have been playing in the English premiership without me knowing lol.

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This Singapore guy, as expected, is full of comments about Singapore only. And how Singapore will benefit.
Their whole quasi social politico belief system places Singapore at the centre of the universe, and they believe it's the greatest nation in the world.
It's nothing to do with rangers! If it was Celtic for sale they'd be saying how that will help Singapore!
The same family have run the country since it was founded. No democracy, death penalty for turning up late and chewing gum.

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06 Apr 2012 18:02:41
Inland revenue have a rule in agreeing CVA's. They will not agree a CVA with any business where they deem that there has been an evasion of statutory liability, i.e. tax evasion. HMRC class EBT's as an evasion of tax liability, so that means HMRC have a stated policy that will lead them to reject any CVA, so it looks like curtains for Rangers.
Rangers Till July!

Believable36 Unbelievable35

"The EBT settlement opportunity
For its challenge to EBTs, however, HMRC has taken a different approach, and is offering a negotiated settlement opportunity for those with an open enquiry into their arrangements. Businesses currently subject to an HMRC enquiry into their EBT arrangements can expect a letter from HMRC before the end of August, inviting them to enter discussions about reaching a settlement."

Ooops to your post Timothy.

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If i leant you 30 million and was an unsecured creditor i would take 10 million rather than nothing of course they will take a CVA.

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HMRC class EBT's as an evasion of tax

-----------------
hmrc run EBT schemes, they class it as tax avoidance, perfectly legal.

its only in the way rangers used EBTS thats in dispute.

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Rangers have other tax issues outwith the EBTs so that might count against a CVA.

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I have just read through the list of creditors. Police, ambulance service, childcare providers, just about every power supplier available, face painting, for goodness sake have you no shame why dont you just pack up and stop embarassing every decent minded scottish football supporter any more. You are a complete embarrassment and to still blame everybody but your own club is pathetic and shows the levels that you have sunk to. GO NOW

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The Guy above me clearly does not realise that Scottish football WOULD BE NOTHING without Rangers, Dont kid yourself on, Do you realy think that we are the only one how has not paid up all there bills, Scottish football has been a laughing stock for years and you Cannot seriously blame that completly on Rangers, Take a step back from your pedestool and look in the mirror and you will see that EVERY SCOTTISH team is Responsible for the Embarrasment which is Scottish football, unless something drastic is done, then it will Remain a Laughing stock. NOT ALL DOWN TO RANGERS WATP!!

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Its so wrong to lambast the fans for the state of Rangers debts They paid their money to watch football How could they know what was going on behind the scenes tho personally I smelt a rat as soon as Rangers was sold for the princely sum of £1
Sympathetic Celtic fan

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Mostly down to rangers though! Don't tar every1 else in Scotland with your sordid brush.

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After reading through the list of creditors, it got me thinking why dont they let us all know the date that each creditor is owed money from, as I suspect about 80 % of this is during Whyte's short time. Having this information is very important to form a pattern as to what has gone on, and who is to blame for what.......Catweazle-talkingbone.

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Makes any right minded person feel sick. The very thought that rangers are gonna probably pay these working class people 10p in their pound, yet at the same time everyone connected to Rangers expect to still have Steven Whittaker, Davis, Macgregor,Naismith and Laughing Boy all still earning £17k-£30k p/w from the start of the season! What about the Aberdeens, Hibernians and Kilmarnocks of the scottish game who have honestly struggled within their means, yet next season it will be back to the normality of decent wages for the Dignified Gers via their CVA....... SCOTLANDS SHAME IF IT HAPPENS but certainly wont be a surprise!!

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Not every scottish team dodged thier taxes, not every scottish team goes to england and wrecks a city centre attacking police and local businesses costing them money, your club should have been hit with a bill for the clean up. It is your shame, not scottish footballs shame. Man up deal with it, and when you realise scottish football can and will survive without rangers. Teams who get relegated from the spl don't go to the wall because they wont play rangers that season, they cut thier cloth to suit. It may not be the exciting football we like too see every week but most clubs would do the same. I for one would look forward to being able to go to watch a game without having to listen to the bile and hatred that we hear being sung. If it means no more bigotry then so be it. Bye bye rangers

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This has been confirmed by two insolvency practitioners not my original post but there is a link to two different experts quoting the above rule.

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EXCITING AND SCOTTISH FOOTBALL in one sentence?, Celtic are just the best of a bad lot, That's why we don't get and never will get anywhere in Europe, Yea Scottish football can cope without Rangers, and Celtic too. Ok no big money games , No TV money and no big wages, but we could get back to Saturday 3pm football, and games would get more exciting as it would be a level playing field for the league.
Stevie C a Motherwell Fan

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I honestly couldn't care less if all our creditors get nothing, I'm not responsible, I only pay money to enjoy watching my team. I loved the era when we overspent and I got to watch legends destroy celtic. Im sorry its come to this but I pray some very rich person comes along, finds a way of avoiding the tax and spends big on the team. I couldn't care less I go to football on a saturday to enjoy myself and get away from all the stresses of life. I don't go to the cinema and care if the actors got paid or the cameraman. I can't help laughing at all the financial experts we have in scotland since this happened, its really a wonder we are not the centre of the global financial world with all the knowledge we have. Come on guys lets get back to reality whatever happens will happen don't lose sleep over it after all it could be worse, you could have to walk around wearing they ridiculous hoops.

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The graveyard is full of people who thought the world could not survive without them. Yet we all moved on. Nothing to see here but a dead club walking. I will not mourn their passing.

Wolvibhoy

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Utter rubbish check Arsenal vs HMRC £300 MILL OWED settled for £11 mill 4p in the poumd that was an EBT case

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Well said hmrc will not accept anything but the full amount of revenue that is owed to the state if rangers do not pay up hmrc will bankrupt rangers before liquidation and will seize ibrox and murray park as they are assets to them why should rangers be different from joe public. This missmanagement is so serious that administrators will have no control over hmrc as hmrc will have final say they do not do deals ibrox and murray park are worth about 110 million pounds they will seize them both assets.

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They cant seize what the club do not own no one knows who owns Murray park n ibrox

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Why people keep mentioning Arsenal and Vodafone is beyond me the method of EBT used in both was different than that of our use of the EBT scheme.

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Google "Arsenal vs HMRC" - no details no matches, and this page appears in top 5!

The joy of the internet is you can look up what people say...... its pish mostly

Arsenal may have been weaker case - after all no reports for arsenal directors of dual contracts (unlike rangers), no reports of arsenal directors asking for pay via EBT and to shred the doc (unlike rangers)......

etc etc etc

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To Mr:
"For its challenge to EBTs, however, HMRC has taken a different approach, and is offering a negotiated settlement opportunity for those with an open enquiry into their arrangements."

Sorry to burst your bubble:
This offer applies only to those EBT holders who have NOT YET been subject to enforcement action from HMRC, and who are open and honest about how they have run these.

Rangers are DEFINITELY not in that category having challenged HMRC assessments every step of the way.

What HMRC are saying is : 'If you have an EBT that we don't know about yet, come to us now and 'fess up, open and honest like - and we'll assess you for the Tax & NI only, without penalties or criminal prosecution, and maybe even give you time to pay.
But If you wait for us to find you out, You'll have to pay not only the Tax & interest immediatley, but a hefty penalty on top, and could face prosecultion."

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06 Apr 2012 17:01:57
craig whyte just on clyde 1 stating that he had no intention on liquidating rangers. he is also willing to sell the club.

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Aye for how much money ... He will want millions an who's going to give him it as well as paying the CVA if that happens ...bleak bleak bleak

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Yeah, he also wasnt barred from being a director,didnt use ticketus money to pay bank debt,was going to sue everyone etc etc,yet you still believe what he says ! everything he says is a lie and the opposite is true therefore he WONT sell to blue knight and he WILL liquidate ! DD

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Firstly I hope he does not get a penny, but if some payment has to be made to get rid of the Toe-rag then part of the deal should be he has to accept the money in the centre circle at Ibrox before a home game. Just so he is left in no doubt how we feel about him.

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They're dodging the taxman he won't go away, the Orcs are all hiding cause they canny pay, the rats are all leaving through the Ibrox gate and it's looking more likely that they'll liquidate...WE'RE HAVING A PARTY WHEN RANGERS DIE!

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Craig Whyte talks the biggest load of s**te i have ever heard 1 man talk. When he bought the club for £1 & paid the £18m debt with ticketus money to ltsb other than the btc was that not us supposed to be debt free??. If i'm correct then shyte himself has racked up nearly £50m worth of debt in 11months,after reading d & p,s report whyte didn't stick to the agreements that were reached with hmrc on several occasions so no 1 else to blame for the s**t we are in other than WHYTE

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Wish he would jst f*ck off like. the man has been nothing but trouble. graeme

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Re the taxman.I am a small business that owes the tax man £789.98 .I do not have the money to pay him, but am going to be charged 10 pounds a day interest ..I am going to the wall..does not seem fair...I do not want Rangers to go but how can it be ok to write off millions ,,yet me and my kids could be homeless. Sorry but I am worried Dad..WATP

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Craig Whyte's intentions scare the sh*t outta me! He makes conflicting statements on regular basis, e.g. "I will walk away with nothing in the best interests of the club", a day later "I am owed £30 million" (previously stated it was £27 million, where did the other £3 million come from?). "I will deal with any interested party","I won't sell my shares to Paul Murray" & "There are good people in the Blue Knights, I'm open to dealing with them"
F@*K me what is this gonk all about?

After reading the statement from D&P (it was not exactly light reading!) but I prevailed to end.

From my initial analysis (I've not dug into it yet, but I will in time) I estimate Whyte has run up debts of £50+million.That's quite an achievement- it took the previous gonk- SDM- 22 years to acrue a similar figure!

Craig Whyte can state whatever he wants nobody(I hope) believes a word he says anymore.
ThatsNotMyName

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06 Apr 2012 16:53:56
Sky sports are stating that the SFA will NOT consider any bid for Rangers that involves a CVA....is this true? or are they just stirring the pot to sweeten the story again?

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Sfa can jog the hell on what have they got ti do with it ?

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They have nothing to do with the sale and if they promoted liquidation then all hell would break loose! If they did say it, they cant shut their traps or Peter Lawell can keep his biased hopes to his self!

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Wot fekin nonsense!!...has sfa to do wit them!!

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Nothing to do with SFA with regards CVA

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Who are you kidding? what a load of rubbish the SFA are & always have been your bed fellows, they have & will pull out all the stop to assist you as they have always done!

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What's Lawwell got to do with it?! And Celtic fans on here are accused of being obsessed with Rangers?

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SFA hold the registration for the club and the players, that's what it has to do with them. If they decide that Rangers owner (whoever that may be) is unfit to run the club they can withdraw the registration from them, effectively all players would be free agents and Rangers would not be allowed to play. Before you start we'll play in england remember they don't want you.

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Unfit directors just can't act on the SFA council. The SFA have no power over who is and isn't a director of a football club.

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To the celtic fan who made the comment about being accused of being obsessed with rangers, can I ask you a direct question. What makes you switch on you computer in your leisure time and type in RANGERS RUMOURS?

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Cos we like a wee laugh

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SFA and Celtic are creditors, along with the SPL, SFL, and numerous other clubs, so each of them are entitled to state their opinion on whether or not they would vote in favour of a CVA

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SFA and Celtic are creditors, along with the SPL, SFL, and numerous other clubs, so each of them are entitled to state their opinion on whether or not they would vote in favour of a CVA


////

haha you obv do not have a scoobie what your on about! they are not creditors, some clubs are owed fees for games, completely different, they have absolutely no say in rangers getting a CVA or not

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What a numpty! All parties owed money fron Rangers FC ARE creditors as they are in administration! Look at the list drawn up by your adminstrators.Get your facts right!

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As far as the SFA trying to scupper a CVA they would be going against their own previous behaviour. They did not try and scupper Dundee, Motherwell or Livingston, so to do so now would be to go against their own precedent. I would find that unacceptable and I am a celtic fan!

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06 Apr 2012 16:25:18
I was juat wondering if the s.f.a are checking if our 3 bidders are fit and proper to run our club, because if they wait till say the American buy's our club, then decide he's not fit and proper, would they not look a bit stupid after not checking out Whyte ?..........Catweazle-talkingbone.

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The sfa couldnt do anything about CW even if they wanted to so why would tey this time

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The Singapore bid sounds fishy to me.
Mainly because, there are other clubs in the UK they could have picked who aren't in quite so deep debt. What I am saying is, they must have an additional agenda other than 'promote football in Singapore'. We can but speculate what that is.

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The SFA rely on the clubs to carry out the diligence. That's how Whyte didn't come on their radar till too late.

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It's their hoose their rule. Seriously they check every player that comes into our league each transfer window, which could be dozens, yet they dont check on new owners or directors which you are lucky if you get 1 change per year. It is in their very own rule book same as players. When the news broke that he was banned as a director, still the s.f.a sat on their hands, or mabe PL had em on a leash. It's all right saying that it was Rangers job to check him out, which it was, but Murray D the dreamcatcher messed up. The s.f.allowed this guy to sabotage our club in my opinion.

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06 Apr 2012 15:53:46
The singapore bid is the front runner. They have the money to wipe out several of the creditors and will take over on a CVA. They will also appoint a UK/Scottish board of directors to run the club with all sound reputation. (which takes out the culture difference)

I believe the next to go is the american and it will be down to Ng and TBK simply because of the fans backing for TBK.

As it becomes 2, more information will be released about the singapore bid and they will become favourites.

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06 Apr 2012 14:02:57
Why would D&P investigate liquidation if they are so sure that Rangers will be out of administration by end of the season? They are feeding us all lies and we are too happy to accept it. Wonder how long it will take until the Singapore bid fails or pulls out. And think how bad a bid Brian kennedys must have been to have been dismissed almost immediately. Even TBK only have £12mill to invest,way to short an amount. We are finished.
Campsie.bear

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It could be possible that D & P are painting as bad a picture as they can debt wise so that creditors are more likely to accept a lower settlement. some of the debt listed included staggered payments to other football teams etc; ie over a period as apposed to a lump sum. I do believe that had HMRC wanted to liquidate Rangers they could have done so already. I also believe that fraser wishart ( players union rep ) made the comment recently that HMRC are willing to do a deal as long as whyte is out of the picture.

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The report is full of paragraphs giving powers to sell Assets.

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HMRC will deal on the current level of debt owed to them by Rangers. If that debt rises to £93m then they would have no option but to apply for liquidation. D&P aren't painting as bad a picture as they can to force creditors to taking a deal, the reality is that the financial crisis is that bad!

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Every tactic used in this administration period which, by the way, is one of the most bizarre administrations ever played out at a football club, is designed to do one thing; make sure the club bleeds to death. And that is exactly what is happening. The key to a successful exit from administration is time; the longer Rangers stay in this financial limbo the higher the chance that liquidation becomes inevitable. Weeks passed by without any job losses or wage cuts - quite strange in a period of administration.

Rangers are bleeding to death; a loss in the big tax case will be the hammer that puts them out of their misery.

We've heard a lot about the 'world wide support' that will raise enough money for Rangers to survive; where were these people when Murray did the share issue? All these people had the chance to plough money into Rangers then and they deafened us with their silence. They've done so again in Rangers most chronic hour of need.

It will take some serious luck to get out of this intact.

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What bit of, we are in debt to everyone we have come into contact with, are we not getting here??

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Its a legal requirement to list all Debts and potential liabilities that the business may face. D&P have merely done the job the court have appointed them to do.

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Too happy to accept it. get a fu***ng grip. we have no choice but to accept whats happening. Nobody can be stupid enough to take on a crippling 135 million debt unless they have unlimited funds. all we can do is sit and wait and hope all turns out in our favour. steviebear

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THE GREAT FOOTBALL SWINDLE this beats the sex pistols, craig white is jonny rotten to the core, SIR david murray is sid vicious, rangers fans are the spitting unwashed pogo dancers ,who now, listen to the pouges. SOME ONE HAS TO GO TO JAIL FOR THIS.Your club is the lowest of the low shame shame shame.

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Rangers will be out of administration by the end of the season because liquidation will happen. As for the people who say that HMRC will have to take a deal or get nothing, get a grip. Rangers still have enough assets to pay HMRC so these will be sold and the money used to pay creditors. If Rangers did not have any assets, then HMRC may be better off taking a deal but they do so bye bye Ibrox.

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To above post you are right about liquidation but still does not get HMRC a penny SECURED CREDITOR laps that up about £30mill for Ibrox and Murray park sounds right. No players can be sold as they all had the Liquidation free transfer clause written into there contracts so how are HMRC going to benefit from liquidation again ?? Players that have contracts terminated then become creditors (to make 75% wage cut save a mill a month wage bill must be atleast 16million) 16 million x 5years 80million and employees are secured creditors so thats £110 mill in secured creditors who must be paid before HMRC GET A PENNY yet again how do HMRC BENEFIT FROM LIQUIDATION? (little bonus for players is redundancy is PAYE FREE))

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To above poster, players get freedom of contract if CVA and Whyte still involved, but WHEN club is liquidadted all contracts are cancelled without compensation.
Whyte has first shout at anything from selling assets but considering ibrox and murray park are on books at 112 million? Then hmrc MUST liquidate as this alone even after whyte has his 30 million would leave on paper 82 million for creditors giving them maybe 70p in pound compared to a cva at 10p maximum.
Its all over bar the screaming, and if the finger is not taken out quickly there will be no rangers even in div3 next season.
Jimdee

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You have to laugh, someone should go to jail for this. It happens in business all the time, just because its Rangers doesn't make it illegal. Wise up dafty stop thinking your club is an institution and writes its own rules and laws, the law of the land applies to you and you don't get any special treatment for being the people!

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Why would D&P investigate liquidation if they are so sure that Rangers will be out of administration by end of the season? They are feeding us all lies and we are too happy to accept it.
----------------------------------------

There are two ways out of administration, CVA or liquidation, please leave the administrators out of this can of worms, its complicated enough without inventing nonsense.

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To above post regards value of Ibrox and Murray Park. however valuation advice confirmed that a sale of the business and assets as a going concern would realise a far higher value than if the Company were first to be wound up. There are a number of classes of asset including, the player contracts, Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park whose value would have been significantly impaired should the Company have ceased to trade in the first instance. The Joint Administrators are satisfied that the costs of trading the Company are far outweighed by the potentially enhanced value which would be achieved by either a CVA/Scheme of Arrangement or a going concern sale of the business and assets. Offers received to date from interested parties fully support this position.

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Ok so rangers Assets together and keeping the squad is worth more than selling each off individually. So that's supposed to be better for creditors.
The surveyed value of the assets is £126m and CVA bidders are offering £12m for Creditors.
Creditors are owed up to £140m so keeping everything together doesn't make sense.
SELL SELL SELL.

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Are people forgetting Rangers are a buisiness first, that plays football to earn money for it's shareholders. That's why the fans cannot have a say, as the creditors will only deal with D & P. Its tough but us fans are only interested in the football a non Old Firm fan.

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Ok so The surveyed Assets together and keeping the squad is worth £126m and CVA bidders offering £xx to Creditors. Wind up and Players (Assets) go for£0, Ibrox and Murray park worth £significantly imaired. CW gets first 30m, therefore Ibrox and Murray park would have to sell for more than 30m for Creditors to get any cash at all! I guess the creditors will have to determine if they would acheive £30m + £xx in the sale of these assets. If not a CVA is the better option for the creditors, is it not?

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A football fan,listen no expert but rangers are shame ridden just now,but they will get a cva not that its right but will get 1,its the paying punter i fear for,how much more yous will have to pay to get into ibrox n how much for burger etc etc when these crows have nested,coz make no mistake whoever buys sorry whoever gets cva is in it for money not coz hes a ger,remember all that extra dough,to watch players who will be on no more than 4-5 grand a week if yir lucky

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06 Apr 2012 14:02:03
THE American tycoon who has launched a bid to buy Rangers is Georgia-based businessman Bill Miller.

Bill Miller – who has amassed a fortune from a vehicle towing company – had originally been part of a 12-man Chicago based consortium, including Club 9 Sports, but now has decided to front a takeover bid on his own.

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THE American tycoon who has launched a bid to buy Rangers has a history of failed sporting ventures and bankruptcy.
Record Sport can today reveal Georgia-based businessman Bill Miller is the money man behind the US bid that yesterday became one of three front-runners for control of the stricken SPL champions.
Miller – who has amassed a fortune from a vehicle towing company – had originally been part of a 12-man Chicago based consortium, including Club 9 Sports, that had been preparing to bid for Craig Whyte’s shares.
But the consortium unexpectedly backed out at the 11th hour on Tuesday night.
And now sources in America have confirmed the wealthy 64-year-old – who impressed administrators by providing proof of “substantial†personal wealth – is heading up a splinter group determined to follow through on the original plan.
But Rangers fans, still reeling from damage done by Whyte’s shamed regime, will be alarmed by some of Miller’s previous exploits.
As will administrators Duff and Phelps, who are determined to ensure the club’s next owner will be a fit and proper person.
Miller is known in the US as the financial muscle behind Club 9 Sports and has forged close links with the men running its parent company, Prometheus, Jon Pritchett and John Prutch.
Record Sport can reveal Pritchett and Prutch were the leaders of the original consortium Miller had agreed to back until the decision to pull the plug.
This followed a furious reaction from Rangers fans to Club 9’s involvement and the overall American plan to liquidate the club and reform as a new company.
It is not yet clear if Miller plans to stick to the same strategy or if pals Pritchett and Prutch remain in the picture. But they have been involved in a string of previous deals, one of which saw Miller and Pritchett at the centre of a £32million law suit.
Miller is described in a document from the original US group as a “highly successful business leader, entrepreneur, investor and philanthropistâ€.
But there is no mention of his disastrous move into motor racing 11 years ago when he was appointed by one of Pritchett’s companies to head up a new stock car league billed in the US as a potential rival to NASCAR.
The ambitious Team Racing Auto Circuit (TRAC) project crashed and burned before its first race.
In February 2004, Miller and Pritchett faced a massive legal action by shareholders who claimed to have been duped to the tune of £32m.
Named in the suit were Miller, ex-chief executive of Team Sports Entertainment, and Pritchett, ex-president.
More than a year later and after a great deal of legal wrangling, the case was settled out of court for an unknown amount.
Shareholder Edward Garland said of Miller: “The company and its directors thought they were getting an experienced CEO.
“Instead it got a man full of greed who wanted control of the company for himself.â€
Team Sports Entertainment changed names but is now bankrupt.
But Miller’s main empire was going from strength to strength. He has been CEO and chairman of Miller Industries since the mid 1990s. Known as the “towing tycoonâ€, Miller has amassed a personal fortune from his companies which boast a £253m turnover.
More recently, Miller agreed to fund another of Pritchett’s schemes, a Club 9 Sports plan to relocate a minor league hockey side.
But the plan fell through because they could not strike a deal to set up a local sporting arena that would have required a £700,000 up-front investment.
Now Miller is eyeing his next move. And yesterday his chances of completing a successful Rangers takeover were enhanced when the administrators made his bid one of three remaining front runners, along with Paul Murray’s Blue Knights and a Bill Ng led consortium from Singapore.

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The businessman tryin to buy Rangers foot ball club & who owns a vehicle towing company in the states has had his car towed away from outside Ibrox park today we can report,
so is hee haw fae me.....

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If he has made a fortune it wont be long in vanishing if he is gonnae throw it into scottish football. He should speak to David Murray first.

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06 Apr 2012 13:09:01
Ed any idea who the Americans are ? Club 9 or AEG ? Or are they both one? {Ed001's Note - I am still of the belief it is AEG, they are the only ones with a confirmed interest.}

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I read its a break away group from the s club 9 bidders... but still hoping its aeg to ed... i like the sounds of the singapour guy his family wealth is 6 billion and he ownes a team in singapour...jsm

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It's an American group fonted by Bill Miller! Try reading the daily record, he made his fortune in the towing industry! He also failed in an attempt at starting a rival to NASCAR! It crashed n burned before it started n he has an old bankrupt conpany

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Why the hell would i read the daily record ? trashiest paper going.... jsm

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It's not AEG. The only place they have been mentioned is on this forum and it's wishful thinking {Ed001's Note - it is not wishful thinking and it is not the only place it has been mentioned. The source of the story was actually someone who works for them, who has been involved in their search for European stadiums to invest in. They pulled out of their interest in Spurs when the Olympic Stadium was awarded elsewhere. They are interested in stadiums in major cities, ones that can be used to hold events other than just football matches. Rangers is one of many that they have investigated the possibility of purchasing. So there is a very real possibility that it could be them, they are the only Americans I know of that have shown a genuine interest. I know there is the story about it being someone involved with Club 9, but I have no knowledge of that so can't discuss it, but I do know AEG have certainly shown a very real interest. It is not wishful thinking, I actually remain to be convinced that their ownership would benefit Rangers, they seem to be purely interested in Ibrox and may have decided to wait in the hope of liquidation to pick up the stadium.}

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Really mate ? "try reading the daily record" PMSL
PaulRFC

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The towing industry? Is that like wheel clamping? Sounds just what you want at Ibrox

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Lol..@paulrfc..... this whole mess is making me ill, panic attacks, anxiety etc... i bought a blue t shirt months ago it has a smiley face on it with writing that says "i just cant laugh enough" hopefully we get rich owners so i can wear my t-shirt again lol...i tell you what if we cant laugh at our situation we would most likley go insane...jsm

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AEG could buy ibrox from the administrators - but what price would this bring.... ? £50million.... you bears are there all the time - what a true reflection of its status at present...

state of the art...

run down and in need of uplift.

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@jsm , agree mate , like you if I don't laugh I would probably have a complete breakdown, so timmy I am grateful to you for keeping me going !
PaulRFC

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So when its a positive story in the record its all bulls**t. Yet when its a negative story we must all read the record cos its true.

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06 Apr 2012 10:58:49
THIS IS THE GUY FROM SING TRYING TO BUY RANGERS........

Hougang United chief a key figure in Rangers FC bid
He is among S'porean group in financial sector to seek club ownership

Hougang United chairman Bill Ng has emerged as one of the key figures behind an audacious Singapore bid to take over Scottish football giants Rangers FC.

The 52-year-old, who is a director at private equity firm Financial Frontiers, told The Straits Times on Thursday that he is one of a 'handful of Singaporeans from the financial industry' to table a bid for the debt-stricken club.

The Singaporeans are one of four parties who have submitted offers for the reigning Scottish champions. The other bidders are the Blue Knights group led by former Rangers director Paul Murray, Chicago-based Club 9 Sports and an unknown German firm.

BIG PLANS


Mr Bill Ng, speaking from London, where he met administrators of the debt-stricken club

'This is a chance to put Singapore on the world football map... We're not just doing this for financial reasons. If we take over Rangers, we've got plans that will positively impact Singapore football in the long run... Our population size is quite similar to Scotland's so there's plenty for us to learn from them in terms of football development.'

The famed Glasgow outfit, which has won the Scottish league a record 54 times, entered administration last month following tax disputes........WRTP ...

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Don't know what his connections to rangers are but according to clyde 1 last night, this individual has rangers at heart not to mention an enormous bank balance.

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I believe in fairy go others, tooth fairies an Santa dream on

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Ed- I know the details of each bid are secret but can you confirm what you have heard? Rumours of Bill Ng being worth £9 billion but only a bid of £20mil for gers? The state we are in I don't know if that's enough. What has been knocked back by D&P? {Ed001's Note - it must be remembered that a person's worth on paper is not the same as the amount of money they have to spend. Most of Ng's money is tied up in other investments. Also, these guys don't get rich by spending money they don't have to spend. He is simply bidding the least amount he possibly can, that he believes will still give him a chance of taking over. I think people need to be clear, the money being offered is to buy the shares, without access to the bids themselves, there is no way of knowing whether they are stipulating the debts are paid out of it. They could be just offering that amount for the shares and taking on the debts, as happens in most cases. Unfortunately I don't have much solid info to go on. I am sure someone will leak something, over the next few days. Humans are not good at keeping secrets, and there are lots of humans involved in this process.}

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So it's Chicago 9 and NOT AEG then ? Your full of it mate !

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Pinch of salt required!

This report also says Club 9
Club 9 have already said that they are NOT bidding

German Company
Already rejected by the admins.

Not saying this guy is not bidding, just saying the report is prob not up-to-date.

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Wondering how buying Rangers will benefit Singaport football? {Ed001's Note - they can use the facilities for training their footballers, for one. I am sure there are other things, there are always benefits associating with a more established product.}

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I work in the Singapore financial market. This group are real players and would have the cash to wipe out the debt overnight.
Yes, they maybe just want a 'toy' but these are big boys that play with big toys.
Look at the Man C recent history for SE Asian investment and subsequent Arab takeover.
Why would any Rangers supporter not be for same?
The club needs saved in any form before it goes under. {Ed001's Note - from England?}

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Fellow Bears, I'm a businessman, currently in europe but I've previously lived in SE Asia with 8 years in Singapore.
Believe me when I say their culture won't work in Govan. They are hyper sensitive to certain manners etc,...they are also control freaks and will micro manage.
Ally would breeze into the room and be instantly disliked (unless he really does his homework and cultures up)..Allys personality works with British people but it's the opposite of what these guys favour.
Often you have to feel sensitivities, things are unspoken, you have to pick it up, it takes years.
You would do well employing someone like me, an experienced Scottish expat, who knows singaporeans or else it will certainly be a clash of cultures. {Ed001's Note - nice way of fishing for a job there mate!}

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Best to roll in the deep with TBK, no culture shocks there instead of madcap ideas of being the next Barcellona

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Wrong there Ed, I said someone LIKE me...
I earn more than Martin Bain cost the club, Rangers unfortunately cannot afford me. {Ed001's Note - I was kidding mate.}

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I don't quite see how this works. Govan wasn't in Singapore, last time I looked.

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06 Apr 2012 05:27:01
All buds put forwar for Rangers are conditional on winning the big tax case (verdict due in April).

If it is lost, Duff and phelps will move to appoint themselves liquidators and move towards an asset sale (if there Is a willing buyer) or dissolution to pay off creditors with assets.

The hints and pointers are in the report they released yesterday.

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That is just nonsense,HMRC have been contacted and a deal must have been agreed, or else there would be no bids on the table. If you were HMRC or any other debtor would you not take 10p in the pound or nothing if liquidated?
They have a duty to get as much as they can, and the rubbish spouted that as from today all debts go to a newco is just not true.
If HMRC wanted us liquidated to make an example of us is tripe, had they wanted to do that they would have applied to have us wound up Already.

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Why? If rangers get liquidated, there is a chance HMRC and others could walk away with nothing. Headlines say they owe £140 odd million but if rangers are granted a CVA, they could end up oweing £10 to £20 odd million. Only time will tell.

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Great how the working man has sudenly became legal experts

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HMRC deal couldn't have been done yet, the bids are just in. They will be waiting to see what the best offer is and more importantly how much Whyte potentially gets ahead of them before deciding whether to vote for the CVA.

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Creditors won't take 10p from a company that has a balance sheet £126m in Assets.

These Assets will need to be sold. The Creditors will push to sell and recoup 100p.

It's as simple as that. D&P have listed all the powers they require to sell up. {Ed001's Note - but those assets are worth £126m if the company is a going concern only. That is a very distinct point.}

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Liquidation requires that all assets are sold and all creditors therefore get a dividend ( percentage of what they are owed) and depending on size of debt depends on how much of a dividend they get so HMRC being a large creditor would get the lions share of any asset sales money and NOT as is being mentioned zero money..... also it is well documented on HMRC site that when they feel there has been malpractice by a company to avoid paying of tax there will be no cva arrangements entered into as this would encourage more companies (large) to adopt this practice... either way HMRC, Ticketus and all other creditors get money from Liquidation just depends on how much owed to how much they recieve..... liquidation is not a get out of jail free card and CVA is not the answer to HMRC ....johnny G

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D & p cant be administrators and liquidators. they have to name another party to liquidate .have to be two separate entities . check it out in any newspaper with a liquidation notice in it.

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It is fairly obvious from the actions of both the previous and current owner that the BTC will go against RFC.

The book value of Rangers as a going concern was £1 a year ago based on losing BTC, i.e. the debts=the assets.
The problem is the debt figure is actual, and the asset figure is nominal. However as long as any bid is higher than the breakdown value of Rangers then it will be accepted by the creditors under a CVA.

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To agree with ed paper assets are worth a pre-determined amount ie £134million only if the company is a going concern, why do you think liquidated stock from a high street retailer for example costs a fraction of the price compared to the retailer not in liquidation, simply because human nature (and creditors) dictates better to receive something than nothing, 10p, 20p or whatever in the pound are better than nothing, zilch, zero.....in distress situations business people, banks, financial institutions, governments are no different, hmrc do deals with small, medium and large businesses ALL the time, this method brings in some revenue (better than no revenue) and saves costs in administration,legal fees, court cases etc, DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THE SCAREMEONGERS, hmrc have absolutely no opinion about rangers fc whatsoever, it is just another business to them, there is no preferenc, no bias, no sentiments, all they want is money, the more obviously the better, but again to reiterate my point something is better than nothing, i personally believe rangers fc will not be liquidated and the singaporean group will effect a takeover before the end of the season, all will be quiet on the western front until tuesday i would think, anyway all the posts about rangers fc going into liquidation wednesday 4th april have proved to be unfounded so heres hoping !

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As others have said - if Rangers was really worth £126m then why did SDM sell out for £1? Liquidation assets will be the two properties and the player contracts. And, annoyingly, the silverware. Anyone care to price that lot?

Guessing they're quite a bit less than the liabilities if the BTC goes against.

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Really does amaze me how bears (insult to real bears) fans are going to be protesting against bidders who wish to put the club into liquidation, when there is only one company who will make that decision....HMRC! Liquidation is out of the hands of bidders and is subject to the acceptance of a CVA! What the hell is the point in going crazy for anti-newco when the its either gonna happen or its not...dont waste your breath! It also reeks of desperation when your main life savers are a group of individuals who screwed you over in the first place and rely entirely on the funding of the fans for future life support! Good Luck.....your gonna need it!

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You are kidding yourself on that they would have wound Rangers up by now. Rangers at this moment only owe £14m to HMRC and at that level a CVA could be agreed, but at £93m it would be a different story! They only get 0p in the £ if the club doesn't sell on the open market. If all assets are sold as one entity then the bids would be low but splitting them up could mean that the bidders outbid each other for different parts of Rangers, how much value is put on the ground, the land they own, Murray Park etc. will determine where it is sold. D&P must get the best value for the creditors not for Rangers, so in sumation, if Tesco value the car park more than blue knights and someone else buys Murray Park then you could be in trouble.

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Full liquidation means the business and all assets are sold off to pay the creditors hence the reason yesterdays report contained information on how much these are worth if anything on paper yesterday made liquidation look more attractive.

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06 Apr 2012 00:26:32
German bid failed source bbc come on the blue knights we are all behind u save our tremendous club keep our 5 stars on our proud rangers strips

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I dont even think god can save rangers now.

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Agree the sentiment, but how would you find £100m to do that mate - taxman is an easy target to forget, but how to justify not playing for police or ambulance cover is a bit of a moral dilemma don't you think?

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We are not all behind the bk.
In fact I would be disgusted if a former member of the board gained control of our club.

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Proud of what?

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I dont think any of us have enough information to be supporting any bid. Remember the widespread joy at the appt off and continued support until recently of Craig Whyte.

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The blue knights have NO financial backing. The leader of the US consortium was worth $7b in 2010! The leader of the Singapore consortium is also a billionaire & has shown that he puts his money where his mouth is because he put in a £320m bid for Liverpool not that long ago. He also owns a small team in the S.League that could help RFC break into the asian market.

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But theres money too be made a liverpool theres no money in scottish football i honesty think we are done. Theres just noway we are goin to geet out of this! {Ed001's Note - there is no more money to be made at Liverpool than Rangers, for starters Liverpool are in desperate need of a stadium. Secondly, while income streams are much higher, you also have to pay much higher wages to be even close to competitive. A well run club, in any league, can still turn a decent profit, but Rangers have the added advantage of an easier route into European football, when/if back on their feet.}

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After reading the sun this morning ive never felt so humiliated in all my life as far as Rangers are concerned. We owe nearly everyone in the uk. Between 40 quid for face painting and over 500 to the copland rd corner shop, how does Whyte sleep at night?

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The guy who tried to buy Liverpool was Peter Lim, the guy after Rangers is Bill Ng. It's being reported in NDTV that Bill Ng has bid around £20 Million - presumably the vast majority would be used for a potential CVA {Ed001's Note - be glad it is not Lim, he was another Whyte.}

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If we lose the EBT Case and HMRC refuse a CVA we will be set up again as a newco. After reading Ed's comments on Liverpool, how much worse a state would they and maybe other premiership clubs be in if forced to go the same way? More importantly how then would HMRC recover all of the so-called £19 Billion that could be due from English Clubs if clubs were forced down the newco route? Even allowing for the new legislation that comes into force today.

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Tremendous club, hah! Cheating people out of their rightful cash?/Oh! That makes you so tremendous!
PROUD! I will say one thing, your club are a class comedy act! Proud of screwing people? Your heart must be bursting.

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I have posted this previously gents, the USA bid will be selected, if bookies will give you odds GET ON.

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"More importantly how then would HMRC recover all of the so-called £19 Billion that could be due from English Clubs if clubs were forced down the newco route?"

Interesting question. My guess is that they will all do a dral along the lines of whatever HMRC gets from Rangers - 10p in the pound or whatever. Might force some into administration or worse, yes.

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Proud of being cheats! and getting caught! Well done! big question is...how many stars to be ripped of the shirt?

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