Rangers Rumours Archive April 05 2012

 

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05 Apr 2012 22:35:14
Ed have you got a link to D&Ps full statement please mate? {Ed001's Note - http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/fe/a8/0,,5~174334,00.pdf that's the statement.}

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Thanks mate

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The report says D&P can sell off assets as and when required to pay the debts. And they ask permission of creditors to approve this.
An ongoing problem Is all the secured creditors against all the land, car parks, ibrox etc,,,, if these are sold then the secured creditors get their money before the £55.42m unsecured creditors and HMRC god a further £4m and possible £75m.
What buyer will take the Assets with all the secured creditors? Never mind a CVA to deal with £134m.

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Its a total shambles will takes us years to recover from this no wonder the club was sold for a pound no wonder rff only raised 300,ooo pounds they must think us rangers fans are buttoned up the back im so annoyed this has been allowed to happen the so called guardians of our club remember the word dignity the only ones with dignity are the rangers support who have been sold down the river with our loyalty

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The word dignity has never been one used about us...why are we making silly stories....the fact is we have been sold down the river and we as fans have just sat back and done nothing.
The septic fans stopped all of this..where were we..Oh we where on line..Yeh thats a lot of help....WATP for how long

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To the above post have you not heard of william struth a guardian of our club who ran things in a dignified manner striving to be the best

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Why does the club have to suffer in these situations it should be the people that have ran the club so badly that suffer,they should be jailed for allowing this to happen to our club the team the vast majority of scotland loves,itl be a sad day if our doors close for good

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^^^
I agree Sir Minty & his cohorts should be held to account over this disgrace.

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So finally Hector you now know the full extent of your clubs woes.....What do many of the Hectors reply lets just CVA at 10p in the pound....lets stuff everyone we owe money too....lets not bother with the liabilities we owe.....lets blame all the suits for all our problems......
Hector blame yourself, you never asked where the money was coming from when you were buying the title....thats now clear you were buying the title, when we at Timmies House, were rebuilding our stadium, with fans money...when we were accepting you cant pay buy a team, you need to build from the youth upwards.....You all laughed and riddiculed our position
Now the tables are turned we now live within our means....we have a team that will grow from strength to strength.....more importantly we will continue to have a history that is not tainted.....You may survive as, D&P may yet get a CVA in place.....However Rangers history will always have included within it......Can't pay their dues, won't pay their dues, refused to pay their dues.... Rangers fans hope you are proud of WATP.....
Everyone in world football now knows how far you have fallen.....and you will never gain respect from the rest of the football world unless you pay your dues in full......
I expect comments in the negative from all the Hectors....But these words are the truth,and its about time you accepted the truth.

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I think to come on here and make us out to be total daft is first and foremost out of order. We have very much been in the dark for years about the goings on at the club and now know the full extent of issues you have to come on here and have a dig.... What is the point what are you going to gain out of that?

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You only have assets of £126,000,000 if the full potential of the sale is achieved. Rangers would be trying to sell off assets that any potential buyer would try to buy for as low a value as possible. This is to be expected, if someone was flogging you a car and really wanted a quick sale, wanted £800 would you not take the chance of offering £500. It is in short a buyers market, they can and would hold Rangers to ransom to gain maximum profit. It would be possible that they may only realise around 2/3 of the value(£80m). This would give a higher return than 10p in the pound to creditors. It looks as though its all up to the big tax case!

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To poster "Rangers fans hope you are proud of WATP.....
Everyone in world football now knows how far you have fallen.....and you will never gain respect from the rest of the football world unless you pay your dues in full......"

We will not be the first club nor the last to go into administration, regardless of who is to blame, the only people desperate to see us die is a percentage of narrow minded celtic fans accross the city. There isn't a club that doesn't want to deal with motherwell, dundee, livingston, fiorentina, portsmouth or leeds to name a few.... and from clubs both inside and outside scotland they have expressed shock and concern about the condition of Rangers. So we have respect, and that will continue. Now ask yourself where was that shock & respect for celtic before Mr McCann came to the rescue. If we are so hated (in your eyes), why is it only some of the paranoid minority that want to see us die??

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05 Apr 2012 22:02:26
administrators are running up a bill of £26,000 a day or £180,000 a week. these administrators stink from high heavens.

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Any others would be the same. If the club had been run correctly for the last umpteen years, there wouldn't be any need for them.

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Without d and p we would be shut down

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Fellow bears we will never be the same club again blazers spivs hold your head in shame

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100 years won't erase this blackened stain. Whether its liquidation and not paying our debts or a CVA and only paying pennies, the die is cast and it's utterly shameful sullied tainted unclean.

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D&P should be replaced, putting 65 pages of shame onto the Internet.

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I don't understand the reasoning for not making players redundant. It's listed as to secure as high an SPL place as possible for prize money. Hhe differenence between 2nd and third places is 500k, but the salaries are a lot more so that doesn't make sense at all.

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D&P can investigate why Bain got paid £680k a year!
And the others going back 3 years.

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Thats about the same as flo and de boer got,no wonder we're in sh*t creek.

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The administrators have cost more over their time than money coming in.

That means no money coming in for all the debtors listed. Celtic are even owed £40k ffs

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No team can afford to give Rangers tickets, rangers will sell them to fans and not pass the money on.
These debts to European teams will result in complaints and UEFA sanctions for sure.

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Yes ten years of tax avoidance/ evasion. Overspending, lining the greasy palms of the suits, players and RFC legends. Murray/ Whyte making mugs of you all. Its all the administrators fault! get a grip! face facts! pay your dues to the nation!

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Re: Without d and p we would be shut down

we will be shut down! only a question of how soon

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Maybe alistare shouldpay

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Whilst you were all voting Greig best player ever ,he was laughing at you all ....TTTS

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Notice how neither MCR or D and P are owed any money. Wonder why that is. How much did they get pre receivership and only appointed December - watch this space :-)

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Am I missing something ?

Why are the administrators getting flack ?

Do you realy think another administrator woulkd do a better job or be cheaper ?

Rangers fans have more to worry about than administration fees, they are there because your club became insolvent, nothing has changed.

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Our reputation is is ruins thank you men upstairs with your greed rangers fan of 50 years

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Now we know where the charity money is going to.... it will pay the administrators for another two weeks work.

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This is what happens while you were swaning about being the Marksandsparks of the SPL every other team were happy being Aldi's. Look at you now, For every fiver celtic spent in administration Rangers will spend a tenner!!

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05 Apr 2012 20:58:50
The right thing to do here is pay our bills with dignity and make sure the heritage and passion of 140 years of honest working men and women never get hijacked by suit wearing, blown dry spivs ever again. Liquidate the lot and start again owned by fans playing anywhere with dignity. Every one I have seen looking to get involved are all cheeks of the Whyte Murray Spiv erse.

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What do you want. You want to pay the bills and keep our history. Then you want to liquidate which means nobody gets paid and we lose our history. Have you any idea what you want?

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Sell the lot, refuse to support the Spiv newco and start a fan financed Phoenix club and work our way back as a working class all community club with the largest potential support in the UK, run by the people for the people, no more stealing from paper boys. Within ten years back in SPL with adignity

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Yeah dignity in liquidation no one gets paid we get away with it. yeah, again dignity . look up the word in the dictionary.

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Sell the lot, refuse to support the Spiv newco and start a fan financed Phoenix club and work our way back as a working class all community club with the largest potential support in the UK, run by the people for the people, no more stealing from paper boys. Within ten years back in SPL with adignity

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Yeah dignity in liquidation no one gets paid we get away with it. yeah, again dignity . look up the word in the dictionary.

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'largest potential support'? Keep dreaming.

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Very dignified to shaft everyone that is owed money and then start again with a clean sheet. I wish I could do that at home. No debt and still live in my own house. I'm sure that wee Alex would have a word with people for me.

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As rangers supporters how much more can we take yesterday evening everyone was excited talking about multi million pound bids today total shocker as most bears would love this debt to be cleared off if it does not get paid off it will be a stain on our club forever and our reputation which is in tatters hard to see where all this is going hate to say this but the future is not looking good we will never be the same club again im really disapointed tonight the usual the working class rangers fan let down big style total contempt and total mismanagement from top bottom

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Rangers & Dignity??? Your having a Lafferty

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What is the point in having a Newco that will be forever known as Tax Dodgers Utd?? Better to try to find a way to pay off the taxes owed via Blue Knights and ok if a 2nd/3rd Division Team for a bit after

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The reason Rangers are in this mess is because of 2 men Murray and Whyte. Together they have ruined our great club and brought shame to every decent Rangers supporter world wide. Both these men have ran the club shamefully and rather than tarnish the club with all this they should both hold their hands up and admit to this. Whyte didn't pay the VAT and PAYE and not the club. The players paid PAYE and the supporters paid the VAT on the merchandise it was Whyte who didn't pass this on to the Tax authorities.

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05 Apr 2012 20:40:14
I dont think this makes any difference to the 3 bids because they would have known how much was owed before submitting bids for the club.Although it does make for some pretty horrendus reading when you see it in black and white.Apparently two out of the three bids are not interested in liquidating the club.I suppose we can only hope and pray they can come to some sort of resolution and we can continue on as the great institution that is Rangers football club.

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Is liquidation really that bad ? As long as there's a club.

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This is a worst possible scenario and will not be news to any of the bidders. It costs money to pull together and then present a bid. Those still in the race will have thought pretty deeply about the situation before doing so ( + Brian Kennedy, who although no longer formally a bidder is not finished with this yet )

For me liquidation is not an option. Our position as winner of most domestic league titles would go, along with all the rest of the club's tradition

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Yes liquidation is that bad it would not be rangers we would be supporting, and I personally would not be interested.

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As a club you,s are morally bankrupt. non payment of taxes hinders the armed forces, non payment of bills hinders the police and ambulance service... shame on you, no dignity no class

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The taxpayers are being hit thrice and four times by this club: first HMRC hits us all, then the debt to the police is owed to taxpayer, then the debts to others are to tax paying citizens, then the debts to clubs is to tax paying clubs who would pay taxes on those money's if received.

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The taxpayers are being hit thrice and four times by this club: first HMRC hits us all, then the debt to the police is owed to taxpayer, then the debts to others are to tax paying citizens, then the debts to clubs is to tax paying clubs who would pay taxes on those money's if received.

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It needs to be liquidation and a fresh start there's no alternative.
This has to be D&Ps most complex case yet.
Toxic.
Court cases.
If no liquidation, there will be years of court cases.
Stop getting emotional about the history it's too much money, get a grip stop dreaming and wanting it all......that history and cups isn't even paid for yet! The players were all running out the tunnel tax free ffs.

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Shame on us... how many schools and hospitals could that have contributed to......
Very embarrassed and shamed bear.....
********/**SORRY **/************

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I am glad to see that some rangers fans have a conscience after reading this post.

Shame on us... how many schools and hospitals could that have contributed to......
Very embarrassed and shamed bear.....
********/**SORRY **/************


Its fans like yourself that restores belief in decent human beings. I as a Celtic fan would love to see this whole sorry mess sorted so that everyone comes out unscathed, but it doesn't look good.

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Rangers fan here todays news was shocking really took me aback i would like to say to the critics hard may it seem im am very angry the way the club was run i always was pround of our club we done everything by the book strived at being the best the club always had dignity and nothing was done underhand as a fan i will say sorry to the blazer spivs have not said sorry our decent fans are hurting here i agree the point about the schools and hospitals etc this is not the rangers way nothing would give me more pleasure to see these debts paid off properly the old blazer suits have really put us to shame all i can say is sorry too

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______________________________
Shame on us... how many schools and hospitals could that have contributed to......
Very embarrassed and shamed bear.....
********/**SORRY **/************

Good for you mate.
1 dignified rangers fan counted and rejoiced.
Sympathy extended. (There but for the grace of God... etc.)

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Liquidation = no history with all the penalties and also being known as the tax dodgers who treble shafted the public..........avoiding tax, not paying for services such as police or ambulance, using loopholes to come back. I honestly can't see a way out of this one with dignity.

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Its not the support that should be feeling shamed.We all know where the blame lies Sit Minty Moonbeam & Co.

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Why are Rangers fans apologising. What did they actually do ? Surely it is the boardroom that is to blame and should be aplogising alongside HMRC who let the debt grow to the extent it has !

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05 Apr 2012 20:39:56
Just wunt to c if i got this rite.
Rangers fc owe 55 million @ presant.
A possable further 75 million.
A 46 million running cosr per year,with a 10 million shortfall per year,
No europe,no merchandize,no season ticket money,tv money paying dues = no tv money,
I aint no bussines man how does anybody cva or not going to turn around this when debt is higher than assets worth,
Some answers eould be nice to,why does dnp think a cva will work when the state cleary they dont,
Debt rising ship sinking rapidly,
If it liquadates after the new law a newco can forget it to,uefa said it to,rangers or newco are not happining,

Believable27 Unbelievable9

Your figures look spot on, yes Rangers owe everybody and there Dug money, quite frightening reading.

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I was once told this piece of advice...if you 100 pound to someone and you can pay that, it is your problem to solve, If you owe 10000 and you cannot pay it, it then becomes someone else's problem.

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Ok grass hopper.

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One more time, if the Blue knights get in then the short time debt is 28 million and not 55 million, because of the ticketus deal. The blue knights have a long time plan rather than an instant fix, but at least we pay our way. D & P have painted the worst possible picture here. Have they got inide info that the big tax case is lost ? or are they pushing us towards liquidation whilst preparing us ?. If anything having seen these figures, I like the idea of the Blue knights getting in now with ticketus on board.

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1st of all, your spelling looks worse than a 4 year old, too many big words for you
2nd, where do you get "no merchandise" from?? the gers sell more than most English premier league clubs do

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When will fans realise that merchandise doesn't raise much unless it's the club's own range and even then it's not huge money.

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When will fans realise that merchandise doesn't raise much unless it's the club's own range and even then it's not huge money.

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Its easy.

Owe £135m

CVA 35p in £1 say leaves a debt of £47.25m to be paid.

£33.25m of this will be HMRC who have already stated they would settle for a payment plan.

So this leaves £14m upfront payments to be made.

This is extremely bad reading bears, but do not think for a second the 3 x bidders were in the dark about this. They all knew and were thinking the exact same as i have mentioned above.

Not as doom and gloom as it looks when first reading.

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No British club should forget rfc refusing to pay their bills as well as the queens taxes

whether rfc or ne win bears clothing, its still the same group who fleeced the British tax payer and the British and European clubs as well as small Glasgow businesses.

this will never be forgotten.

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The man is correct! there is no income to repay even the best case scenario debt option.
the options are therefor liquidate and lose all, or a very unlikely cva which continues to strangle the club with debt, interest and fees. Even if ticketus are part of the new consortium, they are only trying to prevent the loss of 27m through cva or liquidation, they still want thier money back! check the figures for last year rfc repaid £8m in 3 months to ticketus and had to borrow £5m back. RFC are up S**T creek and they sold the paddles to a finance company and cant afford to buy them back.

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Not doom and gloom! a private company avoids tax equivalent to the budget of our city hospitals. income=tax = social responsibility!the tax avoidance / limitation argument makes me sick, pay your dues!

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No income tax no VAT no money back no RFC black or whyte rich or poor we'll dodge payments and close the doors

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Rangers were worth £1 a year ago, before all this new debt, now you are suggesting £45 million is a reasonable offer ?

I assume there wlll be little season ticket revenue, since this has already been paid for and no European receipts.

Yeah, 45 million sounds a steal.

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Not only did we withhold/fiddle the taxes, we didn't pay the polis, ambulance for direct services - double whammy right up ye mug taxpayers

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"£33.25m of this will be HMRC who have already stated they would settle for a payment plan."

£7.5m + interest over ten years is a payment plan, writing of two thirds of the liability is not.

Also that level would suggest other creditors would have be offered 44p in the £1 as well

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05 Apr 2012 20:25:01
Can I ask if everyone will support the newco in the event of liquidation? Anyone else feel that it just wouldn't be the same? I for one would not be lining the pockets of any more crooked business men who think it is a good idea to kill our club and start a new business then ask for our cash and loyalty so they can run us into the ground again. I support Rangers Football Club found 1873. Not Glasgow Rangers 2012 or any other imposters. Damn you Whyte and Murray!

Believable31 Unbelievable18

In the event...lol

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Fellow bears i posted 6 weeks ago saying rangers debt was 136 million i was laughed at wake up everyone

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It will be difficult to avoid liquidation.
Debts are £55.42m unsecured creditors not including small £5m and big £75m tax cases. Also 5 secured creditors for tens of millions against the assets for various loans and agreements.
I think the final bill when all is calculated to be over £170million.

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Look we were told today that going bust is highly unlikely,these bidders that are left know exactly the cost of taking us over,we are starting to listen to the bile coming from people who know nothing

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I won't be supporting a "Newco" but I also think it's unfair to tar every business person with the same brush as so called business people like Diddy Murray [not sir] & Grog Shyte...

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I'm 28 years old and for as long as I can remember I have always loved rangers. I wont support a team created after liquidation. I would rather remember all the good time with Rangers than follow Glasgow Rangers 2012 or what ever the f*** they will be called. I am praying that we can come out of this situation with a little bit o dignity in tact and pay off as much of our debts as possible.

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No chance will I be supporting whoever comes in and liquidates newco team. I'd rather the fans get together like the Man Utd fans and create a new team, even if means starting on a public park

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You'll no be liquidated , well thats what all you sandheeds were telling me last night. You've got billionaires waiting in the wings to throw 100's of millions of pounds into your debt ridden club, Adidas and SV hamburgers ready to throw there weight behind The mighty Govan Dodgers, even German royalty ready to help out.. Is there something happened in the last 24hrs? .....Stevie

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Liquidate or not, itll always be RANGERS at IBROX in GOVAN. You CANNOT delete 140s of history, if we liquidate, itll flush out the unloyal fans.

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A Newco is not for me. Apart form anything else the endless gloating from our friends in the East would be unbearable.

However.... I still don't think it will come to that

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Unloyal fans?? Am sure youll find that some of the loyal fans, MORE LOYAL THAN YOU will not support newco! So too say unloyal is not the right choice of words!!

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Highbury is not a football ground anymore - its houses.

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Flush out unloyal fans, i think you have a cheek saying that, these fans including myself have ploughed our own money into the club for years and this is how we are repayed, fans support and pay to watch Rangers who they have supported all their life not a newco with no history leasing the stadium and using the rangers name, no matter what people say it wont be Rangers as we know it now, anyone potentially liquadating the club would be ignorant to presume all the fans would just start supporting the new club. I dont think it will happen anyway but this is my opinion

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Been watching Gers for thirty years would never go back if newco is formed my young lad aged ten season ticket holder for five year wouldn't let him go back spent a fortune on them over the years Watp

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Your true loyal fans will have nothing to do with a newco i would imagine, it's like changing your team......Stevie

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Pity nobody seems to post a name to respond to in the event a newco is formed. Why do I expect that if Rangers 2012 or whatever win the SPL in a few years lots of you will be supporting them. It will still be Rangers the club doesn't die the limited company does.

GovanFR

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Not a bluenose but aren't the fans the essence of the club. In otherwords, newco or not, wouldn't you be better supporting whatever organisation is there to represent you. I totally understand that ould be the last resport, and it does mean a couple of years ribbing about the loss of history but isn't it still better than nothing if nothing ends up being the alternative?

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As a season ticket holder for 8 years i will not be supporting a newco. rangers till i die- rangers will die! feel like i've had my heart ripped out of me.

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At the end of the day the new owners a not swallow a 135m of debt, to get a CVA from HMRC when it's 90m we owe them, but you never know, We are not your ordinary club that has slipped into administration, there is pressure on HMRC. If we got a 10p in the pound deal that debt would be 13.5m which is doable. If HMRC say games a bogey, and issue a winding up order we are going newco, that is a certainty. I will support the new owners if it's a newco as they didn't have a choice unless they have a few hundred million behind them which I don't think is the case. This week we were hearing terminology like 'hybrid liquidation' maintaining history but effectively changing the company name slightly. This is way over my head but there are possibilities that could maintain our history even from a liquidation scenario, there is a few variations of a liquidation so it may end up ok if we kept history. I will always support the Gers, no matter if the name changes, this is an institution that will only die if we let it die, it will the same fans, same stadium, same colours

RTID
J

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The true, loyal fans will walk away then?

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Not a bluenose but aren't the fans the essence of the club. In otherwords, newco or not, wouldn't you be better supporting whatever organisation is there to represent you. I totally understand that ould be the last resport, and it does mean a couple of years ribbing about the loss of history but isn't it still better than nothing if nothing ends up being the alternative?

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As a season ticket holder for 8 years i will not be supporting a newco. rangers till i die- rangers will die! feel like i've had my heart ripped out of me.

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At the end of the day the new owners a not swallow a 135m of debt, to get a CVA from HMRC when it's 90m we owe them, but you never know, We are not your ordinary club that has slipped into administration, there is pressure on HMRC. If we got a 10p in the pound deal that debt would be 13.5m which is doable. If HMRC say games a bogey, and issue a winding up order we are going newco, that is a certainty. I will support the new owners if it's a newco as they didn't have a choice unless they have a few hundred million behind them which I don't think is the case. This week we were hearing terminology like 'hybrid liquidation' maintaining history but effectively changing the company name slightly. This is way over my head but there are possibilities that could maintain our history even from a liquidation scenario, there is a few variations of a liquidation so it may end up ok if we kept history. I will always support the Gers, no matter if the name changes, this is an institution that will only die if we let it die, it will the same fans, same stadium, same colours

RTID
J

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The true, loyal fans will walk away then?

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Interesting. A club playing in blue at Ibrox called Rangers (2012) plc would easily pass as the same Rangers as currently exists.

Without fans a newco is a non-starter anyway.

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After reading the D & P report it's more a case of when not if we are liquidated i for 1 will not be supporting a newco no matter it's form or name. GLASGOW RANGERS F.C Founded 1872 or NOTHING. Robert

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All you so called supporters who are willing to walk away are simply rangers fans.

Dont sit and kid yourselves on.

The true loyal supporters are the ones travelling to home, away, euro away games, constantly following the gers. With the club in our blood.

You lot wont be missed

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A newco will give the good rangers fans a chance to drop the flawed history of the last 100+ years,

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If the tea ladies formed a dominos team that played at ibrox I would support them. There is a lot of talk about our history disappearing but while ibrox stands rangers will still live. 66 rangers supporters gave their lives supporting the team they love. Millions have stood and cheered on the red white and blue over the years and hopefully this will continue long after I'm gone

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Lots of clubs play in red whyte and blue. rfc are no longer.

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It will be like the goldfish bought by your parents that replaced the dead goldfish. after a while you'll forget there were ever two of them

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We all know the red white and blue we are talking about.

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Not a gers fan...
What about:
Sticking yer hands up..
saying sorry...
It wasn't the fans that got RFC into this mess, but it was people who you were happy to support while it was going good.

No one (not even Celtic) is enjoying the genuine pain of decent Rangers fans.
But your club was rotten to the core. You spent money you didn't have on players you couldn't afford to win titles you might not otherwise. You denied the exchequer of funds that should have been spent on more socially useful enterprises than David Murrays ego trip. And you cheated sporting competition, denying honest but modest clubs like mine (ICT) that may not have shone - but played fairly and paid their way - of some of the success and opportunity that otherwise might have been theirs.

£134m would buy a helluva first team... whatever the jersey.

Whenever anyone tried to warn you, they were met with 'Tim conspiracy' or 'BBC bias' followed by mass protest and press collusion with the RFC establsihment.

Ditch the sectarian nonsense, show a bit of humility. There is alot to commend the decent bears out there.

A 'mea culpe' is the way to preserve the dignity of your institution now, not the victimised defiance and - frankly - adoescent whining - that has been on display from some elements of your club and support.
Sooner would have been better.

Rangers did this to Rangers. Not the SPL or the SFA or the CFC or HMRC. Think about that.

You are probably going to walk away from this in some form, owing over £100m that will never be paid back.
Think about that too.

Some of you will breathe a sigh of relief when this happens. Well... you are ahallow scum, and you will be the death of Scottish football.

But many of you - most I hope - will be feeling genuine sorrow for what your club has done to the game and the country in your name... not merely what they have become.

Well to those fans, I would say, you shame is unnecessary. Your loyalty was misplaced. Your future is in your hands. But your history isn't.

Admit and learn from your mistakes. Dignity is more important than history. And loyalty is not a virtue when it is blind and misplaced.

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Damn you whyte and Murray well said mate.
Rangers FCC have been abused for 100 years whyte and Murray is end game fellow bears.

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What is this" flush out unloyal fans"? if we liquidate there will be nothing other than some glorius memories to be loyal to ya tube!

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Comparing the newco to the original club is like saying that going to see a Tribute act of Elvis/Robby Williams/Abba/Beatles/Tina Turner or anyone else down the local boozer is the same as going to see the real thing, and that if you a TRUE fan of the original you MUST pay to see them.

The newco would be a no more than a shadow/tribute to the club, but ulimatley not the same

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Newco not for me, i was in barcelona in 1972, (got a whack wi truncheon also when it kicked off for f--k all :-)) wont be same, and as someone said its going to watch a tribute band and not the real thing.

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05 Apr 2012 20:24:31
The monies owed to clubs in Europe and england is for transfer fees as is the case with hearts money. We never paid any fees in full we only agreed monthly installments so we can keep paying those monthly installments until they are cleared if we want. The administrators are just culminating all of the clubs debts together but a chunk of it is in manageable portions. I do not understand however why the Rangers Fighting Funda has not paid off the section of authorities such as the Police, ambulance caterers etc. As we clearly have enough in that fnrd to wipe out all of them. Then we could start attacking the scottish club debts next before the other clubs outside of Scotland. Leaving the biggest tax debts to the new buyers to sort out. A support like Glasgow Rangers should be able to raise the smaller debts monies if its true fans and believe me we have a few wealthy fans who could pay most of that in a heartbeat. Mr Kennedy if your a true fan with money why dont you pay hearts for us??

Believable7 Unbelievable17

He is a hibs fan

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Why did the Scottish sports council pump £505k of Scottish taxpayers money jntermationals Murray Park in March 2001. As a secured creditor they must insist on getting all of this back.
Also scottish taxpayers pay for Strathclyde Police. No senior Policeman should be deciding to police Ibrox unless tax payers money is repaid in full (over £50k). And all future games policing is paid in advance of the game. Failure to secure this is incompetence by the Police Board.

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Mr Kennedy is a Hibs fan who does not want to see liquidation. For the benefit of Scottish football it needs Celtic and Rangers

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It's possible that the RFFF didn't have access to the people who are owed money. Maybe now there's a list they will start paying out some more.

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Rangers are not needed.

you were the peeple

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Whilst I'm not suggesting this will make a huge difference to the debt figure, clubs must also owe us some outstanding balances on tranfers done (Everton do for Jelavic, confirmed today we only got 50%). Can this not be listed as a + on the balance sheet, and be re-structured in some way to pay the the other football debts? I also agree that we should use the RFF to pay off the smaller stuff.

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I don't agree, the RFF should be kept, untill we find out what is going to happen with the club, using our money to pay off these small debts wont even put a scratch on the bills we owe. I say keep the money and give it to the new owners, to help pay wages etc,We are no longer fighting to live on, We are fighting to be reborn and it will be intensive care for the next 3 years at least for the newco, no matter what it is called.
Ger 2012 and onwards.

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Are you going to pay up front for your tickets for the game at Celtic Park or is it on the NEVER NEVER? Perhaps you could always get Wonga Loan.

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05 Apr 2012 20:18:06
http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/fe/a8/0,,5~174334,00.pdf

Admin statement- see appendix for list of creditors, then go to M, what do you know Murray group holdings
£278,964

Am I being thick, (and if so can someone please explain why) I thought CW bought the club, lock stock, so why do we owe SDM??

Believable12 Unbelievable2

Murray International Holdings was charging RFC a fee of about £500,000... wait for it, you'll laff... management and financial services...
Not only did he put the club in the massive EBT mess... he charged them a fee for doing it!!
Guess Craigey boy thought he could probably stop paying this one around the time of the takeover.

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Murrays Co. dealt with all the legal and tax matters of Rangers (EBT for example) and will have billed Rangers for that "expertise"

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Why is everythin runnin at a loss for example something as simple as beverage and catering 400000 loss wtf going on in there its suppost to be a buisness smell a big rotton rat

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Why is everythin runnin at a loss for example something as simple as beverage and catering 400000 loss wtf going on in there its suppost to be a buisness smell a big rotton rat {Ed001's Note - Murray sold it all off remember?}

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And granted a 10 year catering contract just before the takeover and gusess who supplied all the wine to Rangers :-)

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Did we not sell the old training ground to MIM and when then leased it back at approx 250K per year?

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05 Apr 2012 19:59:21
A finance professor has said Rangers’ potential total debt of £134m does not make any difference to club’s survival.

David Hillier, from Strathclyde University’s business school, claimed that the report released by administrators on Thursday meant that liquidating the club is "not needed".

Duff and Phelps report revealed that Rangers could owe as much as £134m, while the amount that owner Craig Whyte could be due is not yet known.

Professor Hillier told STV News that the Ibrox club could avoid liquidation by agreeing a company voluntary agreement of around £30m, financed by any new owner.

He said: "These figures don’t make a great deal of difference to the bigger picture. The fundamentals remain the same.

"Any bidder would have to pay off the floating charge and if they were agreeing the CVA, in total, the money any bidder would needed to be put into Rangers is anywhere between £25m to £30m, possibly £32m in total.

"It [a CVA] is very much achievable, these figures are workable and liquidation is not needed. Even looking at the worse case scenario for Rangers it doesn’t seem too bad, as long as a CVA is agreed, which I think is the most likely option."

Believable13 Unbelievable26

All you need is for the creditors to agree to be stiffed and CW to walk away and it'll all go away.

No wait, you're getting liquidated.

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I think HMRC will veto any CVA,

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Rangers and financial acumen don't go together. Its only fair to Scottish people that you are liquidated. f you were a nice club with nice Scottish fans, i would have some sympathy. but you were the people, no longer do you have any power.

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It's currently £135m for the non preferred unsecured creditors.
There are 5 big secured creditors in addition to the above whose debts are to be calculated. If this prof was on STV, and I've been watching all day and didnt see him, then he conveniently omitted all that.... Guess he's a rangers man doing the usual smoke n mirrors!

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"as long as CVA is agreed" big if

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Here's a thought guys - some parties are saying that the level of potential debt will mean that HMRC will not agree to any proposed cva, presumably because it may start a precedent by doing so - which would then give any others a 'get out of jail card'. We've all heard that Rangers is a 'test case' and, as such, HMRC MUST set an example to other clubs, particularly in England. If you look at it in reverse, however, another scenario comes to light. If HMRC refuse to enter a cva with Rangers and liquidation follows surely HMRC would have set a precendent which would force all the English clubs in the same boat to liquidate also. Where would that leave everyone? Would the EPL and/ or Championship be compromised?

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Well it seems achievable based on what the guy has said so who knows. This is the major thing now, will HMRC accept a CVA?? I will follow on no matter the outcome anyway

RTiD in any form!!!
J

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CW wants at least £30m for his shares and with the new charge on RFC Group, he gets that before the CVA. That means there needs to be at least 60m up front to have any chance of creditors agreeing to a CVA.

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How do I get a CVA for my personal debts? I probably owe about £100,000 so if I can get a CVA for 10p in the £ i'd have to pay £10,000, sounds good to me.

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05 Apr 2012 19:19:31
I know rangers don't have a lot of money left around 3 million, but cant they pay off the small debt, like the corner newsagents, the caterers. these are small debtors who need the money to keep their them above water.

Rangers should have all the small debts paid off first, it ridiculous the club isnt paying for newspapers and food !

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A hibby here. Guys, could your fighting fund not cover a lot of these little debtors? These are the normal small punters who have serious cash flow problems in these circumstances. It would also show clear blue water between the fans and the clowns who got you into this terrible terrible mess.

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The save rangers campaign could rather than prolong the inevitable.

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They are not legally allowed to pay off any creditor at this time as it would be showing preferential treatment.

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They are not legally allowed to pay off any creditor at this time as it would be showing preferential treatment.

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At least we don't owe kleenex anything because the toilet paper used at Ibrox for years have been unpaid Bills and Reminders for bills then the final demand letters, so be thankful.that the Rangers Directors showed their Green side and at least recycled the bills saving the club a right few bob.

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05 Apr 2012 19:20:33
How the hell do we owe money to city and arsenal?! When did we last play them or is it wages or something for loaned players?
What a shambles!
What stacks the 55million debt in total before the tax case?

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I dare say its payments for weiss and bartley...we wer never gonna get them for nowt.ryan

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Must be for Barkley and Weiss

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STV's website has the full report available for reading or download. grim

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Bbc site has full breakdown mate.

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Weiss was man city its bartley haha pay ur bills

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Why do we owe Chelsea?

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Was there not a pre-season game against Chelsea at some point?

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05 Apr 2012 19:10:16
AHA!!
Any secured creditor, or any unsecured creditor (with the support of at least 10% in value of the creditors or the permission of the court), may apply to the court on the grounds that the remuneration or basis fixed for the Joint Administrators‟ remuneration or the expenses incurred by the Joint Administrator are considered to be excessive. This application must be made no later than 8 weeks after receipt of the progress report, where the charging of the remuneration or the incurring of expenses in question occurs.

Right Bears, you have 8 weeks to get 10% together to go to court and say "OF COURSE ITS EXCESSIVE, IT JUST BLEEDING IS YOUR HONOUR"
Nevis

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"OF COURSE ITS EXCESSIVE, IT JUST BLEEDING IS YOUR HONOUR"

Erm... its not you they are bleeding: Its your creditors. RFC are in administration because you can't pay your bills. Your debts are not your problem any more... its the people who owe you money who are going to have to take a severe haircut. In reality, the administrators are costing them (HMRC, Ticketus, other clubs) money.
Basically, rangers have financially stiffed pretty much anyone who has done business with them, and Duff and Phelps and piling it on top.
Don't look for too much sympathy RFC... You have had yer dinner, and someone else is picking up the tab!

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05 Apr 2012 19:07:11
"The Joint Administrators‟ time costs for the period 14 February 2012 up to and including 31 March 2012 totals £1,199,356. A schedule of these time costs is set out at Appendix 4."

Thats a joke!! Celtic fan here like but the whole insolvemcy process in this country needs a shake up, they are in there doing what a set of directors should be doing so £500k a month is too much

Bejesus
Nevis

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No to uncover what black beard the pirate was up to needs a lot of pieces of eight
there heart must have sunk when the saw the absolute carnage black beard had caused.....les

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I absolutely agree, and the insolvency exams are tough and all that good stuff but those costs are just unbelievable, c40k (cant remember off the top of my head) to prepare for admin! I still think thats mental.
Nevis

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The biggest scandal in british sport does not come cheap...nevis i have seen you over in rangers tax case site there,s some good stuff over there and its first stop if i want to know whats going on........but still hard for us to see it in black and white
the fly boys and the rich wont be dug up for this but i believe the should be some jail time for this for someone?
think it goes right to the top, for god sake brake this gently to them,and its been managed some way
but i think the worst will happen and we wont be able to complain

the worst...were left with whyte holding the baby with no one else wanting it
sfa will do the right thing
uefa.will do the right thing
'''hopefully the law will do the right thing

but think that black beard will be sipping wine over in france in the future....les

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Wonder if Craigy is getting a commission for signing them up in the first place?

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Or did they agree a cap on their fees with him??

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In a strange way it,s the lesser of all these crimes....rangers handed over money,s to MIM for them to do there tax for them...was the ebt,s for board members a keep yir mooth shut to the board?......after that with whyte it may have been they may just want us to pay that ,better get a patsy tae crank this up a bit more......so our last 2 owners want nothing to do with us......i,ll ask you a question nevis 20m for a life on the run,what would you chose

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05 Apr 2012 18:44:14
SPL will insist all member clubs are recompensed out of monies due for league bonus
Eufa will similarly want other clubs paid before allowing any existing or newco to play in SPL
with income streams sold off no euroean games
30 million to the slippery Mr Whyte not a lot in the kitty to service even half the value of creditors further admin round the corner very soon if liquidation can be avoided

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Its got feck all to do with Uefa wether we play in the SPL, and if its a newco, the newco wont owe anyone money.......

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And it wont be in the spl, there are far more deserving clubs, than rangers in bears clothing.

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Unbelievable! still burying your head in the sand! this attitude is what got you in the sheite in the first place!

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05 Apr 2012 18:29:59
The arsenal shares that rangers owned and sold off by Craig Whyte were brokered by a company were Craig Whyte was secretary & has since gone into admin as well with no money of the deal being transferred to Rangers!

Believable15 Unbelievable5

Kerrydale accountants 1, rangers accountants £134 million

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When is that c**t whyte gonna get his collar felt by the old bill?, wot he is getting away with is unbelievable?..harry redknapp was taken to court for less!. whyte is a compulsive liar, i cant remeber 1 truth he has told since he swept into ibrox!, if he told me today was thursday...id check the newspaper just to see if he was bein truthful!. ryan {Ed001's Note - I would want to double check what a newspaper said as well meself!}

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So you think that wee craigy is the
only one to blame for this mess.
get real.

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When Whyte took over he was advised by the old regime that these shares were available to sell. However the administrators cannot find the money. "We are the people" attitude has dragged Rangers down to where they are now.

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He is the 1 who failed to pay a penny of tax since he took over last year...u may blame sdm for our troubles..but none of us was complaining during the glory years....btw...if sdm was still in charge...we wouldnt be in admin now

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It's called asset stripping.
Perfectly legal and what Craig Whyte does for a living.

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05 Apr 2012 18:13:42
Whyte didn't even hand the Arsenal shares money to RFC. Admiistrators having to take legal action. - Disgusted

Source: D&P report

Believable17 Unbelievable4

As the Owner of RFC Whyte was free to do what he wanted, just like anyone else who buys the club

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05 Apr 2012 18:09:31
If debts are £134 million and assets are £126 million then why will any of the creditors take less than most of what they are owed , so would vote for liquidation. Would you ? Also we have lost another £2.5 million since we went into administration , that's including the reduced wage bill, so how do we get a viable buisiness model , without drastically reducing our overheads , can we even afford to stay at ibrox?
Really sad bear.

Believable11 Unbelievable4

Assets of £126 million ma erse. Where did you read that pile of crap?

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05 Apr 2012 18:07:20
I think it's high time Sir David Murray is stripped of his Knighthood.

The latest figures released by Duff and Phelps are frightening.

TTG

Believable20 Unbelievable7

Why? He wasn't knighted for services to football or Rangers.

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Do you think DM , CW and the RFC directors will be removed from the Ludge?

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No, but he was knighted for Services to Business, something that doesn't sit well with his part in the £130m+ debt and tax fraud

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Not sure about being removed from the Ludge, more than likely be sitting on the cLudge tonight!

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Murray own companies are nearly £900,000,000 in debt so yes he's done well for business

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SIR jeffrey archer was knighted before his dodgy PERJURY dealings then jailed kept his knighthood and later made a lord,,,so SIR david murray should definately not be stripped of his knighthood but he should also be made a LORD or even KING FOR ALL HIS GOOD WORK!

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I think that Craig White should be given an award for the good job that he has done in such a short time frame.

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A year ago i would have made him king as well as david murray did give us loads of unbelievable happy memories,but we're paying for them now.forget the past memories never die,lets move on whatever it takes.

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Never mind stripping him of his Knighthood its a long stretch in Barlinnie he should be getting and so he isn't lonely inside he can have Whyte for company

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05 Apr 2012 17:51:48
ok so , ibrox and murray park may have to be sold and rented back to us...
FIXED CHARGE ASSETS
Freehold Property Including Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park 1 109,613,870
Leasehold Property - Albion Road Car Park 1 2,931,968
Goodwill 1 620,000
Trademarks 1 39,495
113,205,333
I HOPE IT DOSENT COME TO THIS, i would also like to know who are the 3 bidders left as one got binned today ....jsm

Believable2 Unbelievable5

German bid was knocked back.

Ibrox and Murray park wont be leased, no need to panic.

The big hoose will be staying open for the foreseeable.

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Murrey Park is owned by SDM and not RFC. U won't have anwhere to train lol.

Richybhoy

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NO NEED TO PANIC ?

Did you arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic ?

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It is my understanding that you cannot play in the SPL if you do not own your ground. All teams in the SPL have to own their ground!

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Ross county groundsharing with inverness next season

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05 Apr 2012 17:18:32
Thats it due taxman and creditors 134m and consortiums trying to take over Rangers are hoping to get cva of probably 6p in the pound, what a joke. Sad state of affairs shows the world bad example of bad business practice shouldnt be allowed. David Murray has got Rangers into this shambles just a total joke chasing a dream wasting our money.

Believable22 Unbelievable8

SDM is responsible for EBTs ect , but what has Whyte racked up in debts since then ,Paye,ticketus etc ??

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Does the amount of dosh we owe mean that not one single creditor can block a cva percentage agreement? Are D&P being clever here by listing all the debt and trying tn stop HMRC blocking it?

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I hope the jelly and icecream is lovely we won't ever get to taste under rangers again. njoi.
Am actually dumb struck for words..... man!! Witt aaagghhh. w.a.t.p

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Why is everybody shocked this news,it's basic math skills. Ticketus 27m unpaid PAYE 14m small tax case. All bidders will have been made aware of our finances so really we are no worse off than we thought yesterday although a new owner is looking more likely.

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HMRC have around 70% of debt owed to them, if they don't deal there can be no CVA

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In order to carry a CVA, creditors upto 75% of the debt must agree to the arrangement. Any creditor with 25% or more can block a CVA. A creditor with 75% can force one through.
This means that HMRC can still easily unilaterally block any CVA proposal should they so wish.
Ticketus are probably not now in a position to block one unilaterally, but if rangers were to win the BTC* they might be in a position to block a CVA in which another party gained control, should they wish.
So the fact that TU have less than 25% could hypothetically be bad news for the Blue Knights bid, since it removes some of the Ticketus influence on the outcome.

HMRC are well and truly in the driving seat now.

If they want a liquidation, a liquidation they will get!


*which - I have to say - is generally now accepted as fairly unlikely... sorry Bears... (Think... can you name anyone supposedly 'in the know' that has talked up your chances of winning this, who wasn't subsequently shown to be guilty of lying to you wholesale in some other way?? ) Whilst nothing is certain until the judgement is issued, but I wouldn't be on a win for Rangers.

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05 Apr 2012 17:17:11
this is a disgrace an absolute disgrace

our name is mud all over europe

murray hang your head in shame..........les

Believable32 Unbelievable3

I won't be back at ibrox if a newco happens. its a f*cking disgrace, thankyou david murray for ruining my life!

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Finally the penny is beginning to drop, you have been lied to for years and the administrators are still doing it , for god sake wake up.

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"Our name is mud all over Europe".

Yeah, and that doesn't even take into account the list of fine European Cities that have been trashed by Rangers fans over the years.

Perhaps Europe is seeing what we've always known here in Scotland.

Happy Hibee.

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David murray is no long known by that name as far as i,m concerned he is.....blackbeard the pirate

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Murray Holdings listed as creditor, the lease he can do is waive that

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Not even paid the ambulance service FFS total joke no wonder Murray sold to Whyte for a £1

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For god sake pay the newsagent the £500 you owe them

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The Darkside is imploding!

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05 Apr 2012 17:05:19
I like this site but why do people come on and say 'I think....' or 'I know...' and not leave a name? If you can't leave a name then really your post is meaningless, pointless and your opinion means absolutely zero. Grow a pair and leave a name or just stop clogging up a good site with crap, if we all left a name then the anonymous posts could just be disregarded as pointless or tims.

LarkyJim

Believable8 Unbelievable16

Whats a name? LarkyJim is hardly your real name is it? Putting a name to a "rumour" post means absolutely nothing.

Some Bloke
Somewheresville.
UK

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Was mentioned before to have a 'sign in' system, which would work like in the online paper pages. Were not too keen..................., no name left so you decide.

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Why does it matter if there is a name or not? What if I write something and give a false name? Will it make it more believable just because there is a name attached? Your rant makes no sense at all.

Steve.

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Name?
Is that all youve got to comment on when so much is going on with Rangers?

Phud

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If you can't leave a name then really your post is meaningless, pointless and your opinion means absolutely zero.
----------------------------------------

Explain why leaving ones name makes any opinion more meaningful ?

Neil L.

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Don't worry about names, your club's has & will be dragged through the gutters of Europe for years long after you have gone!

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You'll be sorry you ranted when people start posting ridiculous posts and signing off as LarkyJim haha.

Lots of love,

JobbyBum

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05 Apr 2012 17:00:12
David Whitehouse, joint administrator, said: "Following the outcome of the bidding process, I can confirm today that we will be considering further three of the four bids submitted yesterday....jsm

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Then what is the point in having a deadline for full and final bids?

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They have probably binned the blue knights already... my suspicions is that cw is operating them like pupppets....jsm

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TBK are out!

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Dont know mate i just posted what i read on the rangers website ...jsm

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BBC are saying it's the German bid that's out.

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BBC website says their understanding is that it's the German bid that's fallen by the wayside. In other words back to the original 3 with Kennedy still as backup

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05 Apr 2012 16:24:02
STV online reporting that Administrators Duff and Phelps have gone public with Rangers debt set out in statement of affairs at £55million with further tax case of up to £75million. Therefore a possible total of £130million.

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And thats before whyte paid off.

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D and p charging rangers more than 1,000,000 so far and rising...... Read the report and weep.

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The Adminitrators fees are the least of Rangers problems, why you even mention them is beyond me.

I smell a conspiracy theory brewing, please don't go there, its embarassing.

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05 Apr 2012 16:17:25
Worst case we owe in excess of £135
5Million pounds. No way is HMRC goin
g to write off nearly £90million. We ar
re finished.

Believable18 Unbelievable8

Truest statement published on here.

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I agree. With debts to other clubs, nobody will want to be involved with us in future

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We owe millions to British and European clubs. We will be infamous in the football world.
RFC Historic.

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HMRC versus Vodaphone the estimated tax bill was somwhere between 6 to 8 Billion yes Billion.After years of negotiation HMRC settled for 800 million upfront with a further 450 million to be paid over 5 years.They also agreed not to pursue Vodaphone for taxes owed since 2007 estimated to be 2 Billion a year,so who can second guess the negotiators at HMRC.

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A large chunk of the money owed to HMRC is interest and fee's (probably 40-50%), so it is possible that they will negotiate a CVA as they are getting some of the original bill. We haven't run up £90m of unpaid debt with them. How long can they go on fighting for this if in essence they won't get anywhere near that amount if we liquidate, surely something is better than nothing?

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. Arsenal were told they owed £300 million and HMRC accepted £11 million as a settlement October 9, 2005

Arsenal get £11m tax-dodge bill

ARSENAL football club has been hit with a bill of nearly £12m after an investigation into a tax dodge used on payments made to players and agents.
The north London club is set to be the first high-profile victim of a campaign by HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) against tax avoidance in the game.

Arsenal set up a series of front companies and offshore trusts to reward its stars and save millions in tax every year. On average, players were left paying about half the 40% tax rate for high earners.

The scheme, revealed in The Sunday Times last year, is now considered illegal by HMRC, which is demanding at least £11m back tax.

Payments of more than £4m to agents have also been ruled not to be an “acceptable business expenseâ€. Arsenal must pay an extra £700,000 Vat on these.

Premiership sources fear that the actions by HMRC — a merger of the former Inland Revenue and Customs — will make it harder to attract top foreign players to Britain when they can still benefit from tax-free payments abroad.

Thierry Henry, Arsenal’s star striker, has disclosed that he will not begin negotiations for a new contract until next summer, prompting fears he will quit England.

Peter Hill-Wood, the Arsenal chairman, said: “The Revenue are crawling all over us. We thought we acted perfectly legally . . . but now maybe the rules have changed. We are not the only people who have been doing this. It’s obviously not helpful [in retaining the services of top foreign players].â€

The club’s tax dodge was revealed in documents detailing the divorce case of Ray Parlour, a former Arsenal midfield player, who was forced to disclose his salary details to the courts. It showed he earned a pre-tax package of £1,557,267 for the 2001-2 season on which he paid £350,000 tax, a rate of just 22%.

In its forthcoming annual report, Arsenal will detail the £11m it has put aside to cover the payments. Hill-Wood said he believed HMRC was also investigating individual players. It is not clear if the club may be forced to pay any extra tax they owe to stop an exodus of its stars.

It is understood the tax investigation has been discussed by Premiership clubs, which are considering whether to make formal representations to the Treasury. A spokesman for the league said he was aware the Revenue had been probing Vat relief on agents’ fees and tax savings on players’ wages.

Top Arsenal players usually sign two contracts. The first pays them an annual basic wage mostly taxed at the higher rate of 40% plus National Insurance.

However, they also have a second “shadow†contract for performance-related bonuses that reward success on the field. These can account for up to half the total pay package and are paid via two offshore front companies that accountants say enables foreign players to avoid almost all tax.

As a result, Henry is estimated to have saved almost £70,000 a year, Arsene Wenger, the manager, about £118,000 annually, and Dennis Bergkamp more than £45,000. British-born players were able to cut their tax rate from 40% to 25%.

Middlesbrough and Leeds United have also previously used employee-benefit trusts to reward players.

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05 Apr 2012 16:50:54
We owe possible £134 million, £93million to hmrc , vat , big tax case and wee tax case and £ 50 + million to others , we just can't cope with this , sad bear

Believable15 Unbelievable3

05 Apr 2012 16:29:29
After today's statement from Rangers' administrators, will more Rangers fans please wake up and smell the coffee. Even if, by a stroke of luck, Rangers win the big tax case, they owe a crippling ammount of money. Despite Jim White on Sky almost soiling his pants over the 'optimism' of the statement, there is one cruicial consideration missing; the acceptance of a cva by Rangers' creditors. Of which there are many. More smoke and mirrors here from the administrators who I suspect are working to Whyte's agenda - liquidate the club and asset strip.
If the bug tax case is lost, which is a real possibility, then it truly is all over.

Believable16 Unbelievable10

You need to wake up mate yes if we lose the big tax case its a crippling debt but if we dont our debt would be between 40 and 50 million yes thats very bad news but not crippling to a business that can turn over 50 million a year

pad

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Rangers only turned over 33 million last year Pad. The turnover has been falling year on year.

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And your club's turnover will continue to fall sharply after all it's revenue streams and future ticket sales are hoovered up.

Bleak, very very bleak.

So many Rangers fans in utter denial about the gravity of this insolvency event. Too many still surrounded by the imperialist "we are the people" bubble.

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05 Apr 2012 16:13:46
Rangers administrators have revealed the club owes at least £55m and is facing a further tax bill of up to £75m.

The full list of creditors and debts owed by the Ibrox club has been set out in the statement of affairs by Duff and Phelps.

Administrators admit that any sale will be dependent on "the prospective purchaser and the ability to obtain control of RFC Group's majority shareholding."

Does not make good reading but at least we now know how much is owed

JG

Believable16 Unbelievable6

If people take the time to read things they might have noticed that the Assets are listed by D & P at circa £ 126 million pounds.

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This is the important part of the Admin statement

“We would stress, however, that if a CVA could not be achieved, bidders have discussed with us the next best alternative being the sale of the business to a new legal entity which would continue to trade as Rangers Football Club.

“While such an arrangement is not desirable in so far as it would change the corporate entity, i.e, the registration number of the limited company, and would leave the Club facing European and domestic football penalties, it nevertheless could provide a platform to enable new and substantial investment into the Club to be made, which would in turn achieve the long term stability and viability of the business. As administrators, we would be in breach of our statutory duties if we rejected out of hand any legitimate proposal that asserted to secure the future of the Club.

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Well we asked for transparency now we're getting it. It's on STV website.

Possible £130million. That's almost US$200million for a wee Scottish club. TBK have no chance.

Curious as to why they've gone public with the debts and not the bids. Don't think bids scratch the surface of this. Curious about mention of ability to do deal with Whyte for shares also.

Liquidation by Friday?

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If the Blue knights and ticketus get in you can take 27 million off that, which leaves 28 million. Starting to look better already. the non payment of tax, which includes the wee tax case 15 million, which I can only assume the Blue knights have a plan to pay this, mabe via their consortium, which leaves 13 million. Now it's this 13 million us fans would like more info on, because Duff and Duffer have obviously released this after the fan groups said that we the fans will not back liquidation. It looks to me like Duff and even Duffer have put this out to scare us fans into saying ok a newco is fine. The proof is in the pudding as they say, and the Duff pair forgot to mention that if the Blue knights get in it will be 28 million and not 55 million, due to the long deal to cut and absorb the money due to ticketus. So cant wait to see details of all debt including the other 13 million. Oh and we aint lost the big tax case yet...Catweazle-talkingbone.

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Important issue in the statement is that D&P cost more over the period than rangers income. So no income to cover all the other outgoings! Salaries, bills, utilities, ...
Old board knew it was this bad that's why they moved to ring fence money immediately quoting possible liquidation....
Puts Walters statements about a well run company totally into true perspective.....smoke and mirrors from Walter.

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Wow 65 pages of documents laid out online in the reports and Appendices.
How awful, all of Rangers' business laid bare in the public eye. Public embarrassment.

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The sole directors are listed as Whyte, Ellis and Dave King.

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There are 5 secured creditors listed; RFC Group, Kelvinside, The SS Council, Premier Property and Close Leasing.
Why does the Scottish Sports Council hold a security against Rangers unless they pumped money into the club?

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Its been the plan to liquidize from the start.
So much disinformation to the fans.

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Just a wee note on Duff and Phelps 'asset valuation' of £126m. It is well known throughout the business fraternity in Scotland that Rangers' valuation of Ibrox, the spare ground across from Ibrox and the Training ground are grossly over inflated. Ibrox alone is in a bad state and in need of serious repairs. This valuation inflation was a trick of Sir David Murray's to make his MIM stock valuation look a bit better, not to mention the annual Rangers accounts over the years.

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Agreed post above.
The assets are worth what they get on the day at auction.
Nobody can place a price on an old football stadium in the west of Scotland.
Perhaps call Dickinson's real deal?

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If Rangers owe up to £75m due to EBTs how much does MIH owe? Hopefully Murrays MIH debts won't get written off during liquidation as Rangers' debts!

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05 Apr 2012 16:10:30
Game over after that release from D&P.
Liquidation is 100% asured now.
and thanks to Tore Andre Flop he has costed you via wee tax case EBT fine another £2m .
and people on here still think you will win BTC
wee craigo was right it is £75m

Believable24 Unbelievable12

Up until March 31, Duff and Phelps have accumulated fees larger than the amount of money Rangers have earned during that time. Administrators claim their time costs are £1.1m. From their appointment on February 14 until the end of March, Duff and Phelps say Rangers have taken in just over £1m. The administrators are not even balancing rangers now! Liquidation prob on cards. Maybe then bk to football instead of internet accountacy course lol

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As far as i can tell A CVA can be achieved and that 2 out of the three bidders want a CVA, So why would they want to pay upto 100m for a club?

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How can a CVA be agreed? You need to get 75% of the creditors to sign up to, and HMRC make up about 70% of it!!

Fans need to come round that to the fact that things are bad and as more comes into the public domain its likely to get a whole lot worse

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05 Apr 2012 16:06:58
STV website reporting that rangers owe £55 million plus a possible £75 million taxcase!
Full report from duff and phelps on stv website ! Still exited are we . Better start writing to Santa I think or is it another timmy rumour ?

Believable10 Unbelievable5

No shock really. Close to 30 million is for ticketus. 15 million for tax and national insurance from start of whyte ownership. 3 million owed to other football clubs for various reasons. And a few million other debts which most clubs have. Also worth noting we are owed 3 million from clubs ourselves. Not nice but not as shocking as some would like it to be. The bidders will know these debts already.

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15 million to the Tax Man is a disgrace. Just think of all the jobs that could have been saved, all the services that have been cut. But no, remember WATP , really?

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I wish I was one of the people you must be so proud ! How can I join ?

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Is that a dig at the club or its fans? As I am a fan and I pay tax

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05 Apr 2012 14:16:53
Somebody suggested to me that the George Albertz is involve somewhere in the German bid. Anybody know of this?

Believable5 Unbelievable18

Heard that it is a consortium with albertz and klos involved

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Possibly, who knows all will be clear sometime next week, there is no point speculating at this point.... even though i was the one who started the aeg rumour yesterday.. but i done so on past connections with aeg and alister johnstone....jsm

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Maybe it's auld lezzie...she is german after all

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Well they must have a few bob stashed from the EBT's

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I heard the consortium involves Albertz, Klos, and any other German national who has played for Rangers during the glory days.

Get real.

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Ma dug is german shepard mibees it wis him lol

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Will albertz and klos be using their loans from the EBT to purchase the club?

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Wee clues "the hammer" was a legend at HAMBURG who owns Hamburg arena?(AEG)
Which company were linked with buying Spurs?(AEG) and which club was their CEO (spotted in talks with the Russian CEO of that company sparking rumors) formerly with?(Rangers)
At start of admin strong rumors in press of Russian business man spotted at Ibrox but no bid from Russians could it have been Russian CEO of AEG Mystery bid from Americans on last day apparently from out of thin air all circumstantial but seen people convicted on less also AEG on being questioned on Spurs stated "we have absolutely no interest in buying THAT club" so who where they interested in buying??

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"wee clues" ooft keep sniffing the glue buddy.

my gran knows steve that knows jim that knows keith that spoke to an italian in the chippy one night, soooo.....

berlusconi is in to buy us............

wake up stop posting garbage!

BluePeter

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I don't know jim !!

Keith

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P.s I don't speak to Italians in the chipper either !! Lol

Keith

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Yes albertz is bringing his big hammer to help knock ibrox down . ha ha ha

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05 Apr 2012 14:01:40
Singapore Group say they will not put Rangers into Liquidation but will take the CVA route.

Believable16 Unbelievable12

Business people say what they need to achieve what they want. You can only begin to tie them down to honour things when u have a contract.
They change the story saying circumstances have changed etc,..... Look at Whyte Murray and the old board and Walter all porkie pies.

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The Singapore Group won't take a CVA its up to 75% of the creditors to accept the CVA that the administrator offers.

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Any alleged consortium can 'take the CVA route' but unfortunately it will be up to those parties that are owed money whether to accept the CVA. I f they don't, then it's liquidation. Parties owed monies from Rangers won't just accept 1p in the pound settlments just because Rangers fans think they are 'ra peepel'.

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I googled to see if HMRC would consider a cva It says yes if the company has been previously paying their tax This cant be said of Rangers so I would say a CVA is unlikely to be accepted

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05 Apr 2012 11:28:24
Rumored that German bid is linked to Craig Whyte, he is friendly with German business men based in Monaco, his residence in Monaco is next door to German Embassy, the plan is Whyte puts up £10 million they have offered D&PNfld Rangers in return Whyte is recognized as main shareholder and will top the CVA list receiving £30 million, Germans will then liquidate club, D&P are aware of this and will block German bid. Sneaky!

Source is a Aberdeen businessman who has links with SBM the French oil giant based in Nice.

Believable26 Unbelievable31

Not too sure about this one! It was a bit last minute from German and Craig Whyte is a sneaky man though and I can't see him taking all this without a fight! If businessmen see £££££,s they will do anything!

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Only thing we know about German bid is its a sportswear manufacturer and any respectable business would not touch whyte and floating charge over his shares with the proven market value of £1

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In SDM and the old board we trusted.
And on and on it goes.

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Does anyone think CW still has a major part to play in all this. Is he in a position to help negotiate the CVA in Rangers favour after all he does claim to be owed a significant amount of money.

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Three out of 4 bidders have no links to Rangers. They all smell something.
A grab.
Statistically one of the three will get the club. Their offers are better than BK also.

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£25 million warchest availible. Breaking in Daily record tomorrow!

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There will be no CVA should rangers lose the tax case, which most experts believe they will. It will be liquidation and a new co. so get used to supporting a new club similar to rangers, but not rangers.

TonyBhoy

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25 million warchest breaking in daily rebel tomorrow? Why even waste your time writing that mate? I dont why I wasted my time reading it... or replying for that matter.

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Tut, tut, tut... it seems that, no matter how many times Rangers are reamed by the next 'saviour', the fans keep on praying for another one to come along. What company/person, of sane mind, would be willing to burn around £80 million in the Rangers fire without a single penny of return? And with no prospect of millions in tv money?And that's not to mention the potential loss of the big tax case. Any Rangers fan still clinging to the hope that some saviour will come in and throw their money away and return Rangers to the Days of Murray and Advocaat is living in clown cookoo land.

Get real.

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Maybe its just me - - but where is the £30 mill coming from?

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There will be no CVA should rangers lose the tax case, which most experts believe they will. It will be liquidation and a new co. so get used to supporting a new club similar to rangers, but not rangers.

TonyBhoy

Tony B - unfortunately for you 'experts' from the dark side are not included in any decision
There are just as many experts who will say it is at least doubtfull as to whether it will be possible to rule in HMRC's favour

bill72

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Anyone with £50m - £100m to pay Rangers debts would buy an EPL club. The returns are massive down there. What they want is quick money up here.
None of the three have anything to do with Rangers.
These guys don't do charity to wee Scottish clubs.

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Apart from Chelsea and Man City (who don't make enough to cover costs) who makes money in English football balanced against what they put in, tell me a club who has balanced books turning shareholders a profit? {Ed001's Note - Stoke, Arsenal, Blackpool and Wolves off the top of my head.}

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Call them strangers we are havin a party when rangers die

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£25m warchest? Is that not what was claimed with Whyte?

Are you the administrator didn't get an email from a Nigerian businessman looking to help him get money out of the country

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Naw its a100 mill to spend, the new owner will be a martian, its the only thing thats no been linked with buying so this is an EXCLUSIVE.

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Anyone with £50m - £100m to pay Rangers debts would buy an EPL club.

Nobody is stopping these bidders from taking their money and approaching a club down in the EPL. They haven't done this because they know with Rangers they have a much bigger brand. Make as many snidey remarks as you will but it's true. The marketing potential with Rangers still to be exploited is massive.

There are only a handful of EPL clubs that can qualify for European football each year. Occasionally... you get the odd outsider who has had a good cup run.

Rangers can almost certainly guarantee this every year. This is also what makes Rangers attractive.

We know debts have to be paid and money has to be spent but done correctly the payback could still be enormous for any new owner with the correct foresight.

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Apart from scots and supporters of these teams no one cares. the brand of rangers is worth zilch, the brand of celtic is worth zilch, the brand of scottish football is worth zilch. i have worked in the far reaches of asia and the middle east. football tops/interest consists of man utd, barca, real, arsenal, juve, milan clubs. compared to some of the celtic videos i see of thousands with their tops on i have yet to see one. please get real accept the days of de boer brothers, klos and internationals of that ilk are over and get back to producing/selling on some home grown talent.

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"any respectable business would not touch Whyte"! lol. What does that say about Rangers?

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The only tops they like in the far east are man utd liverpool celtic been going there for years

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Having spent a lot of time over the years in Asia mostly China, Thialand, & Vietnam I can assure you there are plenty of Celtic & Rangers tops around! the only Ziltch is what you are spouting!

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05 Apr 2012 02:03:33
The Germans that are after Rangers is a small sportswear company called ADIDAS lol well there is no way they could compete with financial muscle of AEG so it will be AEG

Believable9 Unbelievable38

ADIDAS- away and have a word with yourself!

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Enough said!

Blue Stu

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I have it on good authority that the German bidders are in fact Braun..........who make top quality liquidisers

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No way ADIDAS would be involved, as it would cost a fortune making all your XXXL large replica shirts.

Joeshmo1888

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You're having a laff!

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Could be worse they could make the green and grey hoops.

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Making hoops would save money mate you just re-use last years top!

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"you just re-use last years top!"
--

Yes we see that all over Glasgow. Chavs FC

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The XXXl tops are only for the 'wummin' followers of all things manky. that's where WATP comes from, you cant tell the difference between the women and the men.

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Xxxl tops belong to commons lol or was it the big 1 the mhanks were passing about parkshed./biggles

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