Rangers Rumours Archive May 27 2012

27 May 2012 16:43:11
Ed time and time again this hasn't been posted, could you please let me know why or post it? If Rangers titles from the EBT period are stripped, then their co-efficient points they gained in that period must be as well. The fair and proper fans of every other club think we have cheated teams out of clubs and titles, so surely they must agree that includes European teams. Point being they are all slabbering at the thought of our titles being stripped out of fairness, I hope their also slabbering about our co efficient points being stripped from Uefa, and Scotlands rank going down the drain. {Ed014's Note - Past co-efficient points will not be affected.It would be punishing teams who have done nothing wrong and who didn't cause any issues or problems.

Why do rangers fans all wont to hurt other teams who have done nothing wrong. Have the good grace to take your punishment like men not spoiled kids

Desperate clutching.If proved you will have honours stripped.I must have seen ED's telling you this ten times,do you ever listen?

Rangers fans just keep trying to drag everyone down with them, wont be long until these teams will be asked if hey want to save them

Good point Ed, but you know, this is Rangers fans using their globally renowned mentality of don't punish us (although we deserve it) or this consequence might occur...... Any angle to slither out of responsibility...... There's also a culture of hating people disclosing the truth....that dodgy deals should always remain secret.....and those who make illegality and secrets known are really the bad guys..... Such an immorality permeates.
If Scotland's coefficient were to drop then so be it, we would take it because we believe in sporting integrity, what's honest and what's dishonest, we don't try to find sneaky ways out like the Rangers minded.

The way I look at it, Scotland (due to rangers) have been cheating teams from other countries from European spots, as they cheated Scotland co-efficient points. Other Scottish teams would suffer, but rightly so because the co-efficient points should have never been there in the first place. They did not earn them and Gers cheated to get them, but other teams from other leagues were put at a disadvantage by it. {Ed014's Note - It's still not going to happen.

Rangers have won 1 of their last 25 European games, trust me your "invaluable" contribution to Scotland's co-efficient isn't that invaluable. Now go and sit in the naughty corner for several years please!

Two Rangers mates yesterday 'don't believe what u read jn the papers or see on the telly' absolute heads buried up to their shoulders.

They also think there's mysterious knuckle squeezing all powerful men out there who will sort the SFA and SPL and that even Newco means retaining history and titles and no way dropped from SPL.....

Co-efficient points only cover last 5 seasons, while EBTs were from before this time. And don't forget, this EBT period didn't cover the run to Manchester... That was earned fairly by every player wearing the royal blue.

To above poster what about Sasa Papac and Steven Davis EBT.

But surely the issue of morality that the other clubs fans have been bleating on about must be an issue?surely they would want to proper from coefficient points that were unfairly gained? Or is morality in this case irrelevant and does it only become relevant when opposition fans and club executives use it to add weight to their machiavellian plots. {Ed001's Note - it is a ludicrous idea to suggest it would be possible to sort out the co-efficient points. Machiavellian plots? What an idiotic suggestion. It is just a case of it being almost impossible to resolve, it would affect multiple countries and hundreds, maybe even thousands of clubs. No one is going to go through it all, just like they didn't when Marseille got stripped of their title and when Italy went through Calciopoli.}

Uefa will deduct 51.7% of the Scottish coefficient just because you dont want it to happen doesnt mean it wont SFA knew all about the so called cheating and allowed it to happen to boost the coefficient to get lesser teams into the bigger competitions and SFA secratary/president Campbell Ogilvie has already admitted to it German and French clubs are queuing up to sue the SFA for loss of earnings through their corruption {Ed001's Note - are you for real? For starters, I couldn't care less, personally. For second, it is not going to happen, you do realise that UEFA rules forbid clubs to take court action against federations right? Not just their own either. So no clubs are 'queuing up', however much you might want it to be true.}

I certainly dont think the suggestion is idiotic it maybe impossible to implement the romoval of coefficient points gained in this time.but the point is that morality as far as urself (man who hides behind a keyboard calling people idiots) is concerned is an ideology that can be called upon whenever it suits somebodies argument and forgotten about just as quickly when it does not.Although I wouldn't expect urself to grasp this point as ur head seems to be resting somewhere between ur shoulders.Andy the ger. {Ed001's Note - do you want to read that back and try again? You might actually have a point to make, but what you have posted is just complete gibberish. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop with the nonsense, you are making yourself look foolish all on your own.}

I don't really care if the co-efficient points go. Clubs will just have to accept they are caught in the fallout from a despicable cheating club. We will lose euro places and Celtic will probably have to play additional qualifiers for the champions league each year. RFC on the other hand should be banned from Europe for fifteen years, as this punishment would in some way fit the crime

Rangers route to the UEFA cup final was notable mainly for their negative play. They scored only 5 goals in the competition. Henrik Larsson playing for Swedish side helsingborgs scored 6.

Rangers contribution to European football was firstly to cheat their way into the competitions and secondly to roll out their infamous anti football. Parking the bus, 10 defenders, one win in 25 Euro games.
No one will miss that.
Knighthood for Smith?

Still talking about parking the bus in Europe people seem to forget football is about tactics and playing a defensive game is just as hard as an attacking game its not as beautiful but takes alot of determination and strength

and no-one mentions chelsea who just won the champions league while playing a highly defensive game

27 May 2012 12:48:19
Can anyone explain to me how a CVA can be agreed with HMRC when the Big Tax Case hasn't been decided. Surely if we win it could be 10p in the £ but if we lose the same amount is stretched to maybe 1p in the £ - Jaxie

As the debt is listed as £40 million to the 2 major creditors,

ill going to guess that this agreement will be for the paye and ni that craig whyte missed as the is a known amount,

they might make an agreement to pay the big tax case at the same rate in the future,

but i doubt that will be classed as part of the cva pot and money will have to be found for that at a later date,

CVA at present can only deal with the known amounts due....

The BTC may introduce additional penalties - as once that decision arrives (and D&P will have 5 days notice on this) - then maybe further CVA - or yet another administration stage...?

But the wealth of BBC emails and stuff on dual contracts make it look like rangers defense will be a joke.

It was explained few weeks back.

Its as simple as one deal is set for all scenarios.

X in £ and that is for current debt, plus the outstanding court case.

Not 2 seperate amounts for each case.

Rangers owe £13m this year alone on holding back vat, NI and PAYE.

How can £8.5m minus £2m for D&P cover that? Never mind £40m ??

Craig Whyte says he's owed £30m and that his Miami company has security of the assets.

USA court anyone?

The creditors pot remains the same in any scenario, 8.5m for the assets, 3.8m owed in from debtors, plus precceds from lititigations and monies tracked down by D&P, suppossing the dodgy lawyers insurers settle out of court for 8 -10m, the full creditors pot will be circa 20-25m.

thats whats available in any possible scenario and any posssible debt level.

Won't matter anyway.HMRC will not agree to a CVA if tax has been deliberately withheld.Anyone who says different is wrong,and that includes D&P,Charles Green and any other shyster involved in this shambles of an administration.

Last post is nonsense the collyer Bristow case has been blown out the water by the BBC documentary. D&P fees to date (circa £3 million) have still to be deducted from the purchase fee. So all in all about £ 5 M for the CVA pot. Which means no CVA

The public accounts committee of the House of Commons has sacked the top three ZhMRC managers who were involved in corporate CVA deals and said NO MORE. How can Rangers do a deal?

Collyer Bristow case has been blown out the water by the BBC documentary
--------------------
oh no it hasnt, do you even know whats involved?

at worst the beebs sham of a documentary leaves potentialy, D&P to be added to list of litigants.

BBc sham......

So how many law suits filed against this sham.... so far none - just threats and people talking about talking to lawyers.... easy to say....

We have seen some emails BBC got hold of... what about the others.....

Most the of BBC details been on the web for months, or years.........

People can say "I never took a penny" from rangers.... and if they took 1,000,000 then that statement is still valid... ! EBT came from trust - not ranger...

lots of ways to twist this.

But facts are facts - and hard to fight in a court of law.

if a sham would 100+ players and others not have legal cases already.... BBC got deep pockets... and no raft of cases...

me thinks its no a sham...even rangers admit they had EBTS running, but did not say how many and to whom...

detail...detail...detail

Well Craig Whyte may well have security over £30m but he won't see that much in a CVA. Under liqidation, when Green's shares revert to CW, that's when he will grap (or try to) £3om of assets. And if Ticketus are successful in a case against him, he'll lose most of it anyway.

I think Ticketus are banking on CW being successful in defending his secured creditor status. I can't see D&P challenging that but other creditors will surely want to.

Here's a question that I haven't seen asked before. Whether or not a CVA is done with HMRC involved, what happens to the employees whose NI contributions were witheld? When they retire they will have a shortfall in their contribution, maybe upto 9 months worth. Sure, they can make up the contribution out of their own pocket. Hardly seems fair though. Whoever finally takes over Rangers should re-pay this money in full in a gesture of good faith to the ordinary employees of the club.
Al

D&P have no reason to challenge Whyte's creditor status. Their job is to maximise payout however it's divvied up.

Can't see them biting the hand that feeds them anyhow.

Because until the big tax case is decided Rangers are not liable to pay any money for that so it is irrelevant

A CVA deals with legacy debts that are known, not unknown

27 May 2012 12:37:27

Charlie Adam has told his old Rangers pals to take their SFA punishment on the chin — and just get on with it:
The Ibrox club has launched a legal battle to overturn their transfer ban.
But former Gers midfielder Adam — now at Liverpool — said: “Everyone knows they have made mistakes.
“The SFA have made the decision and everyone should move on from it and move on to next season.”

Probably relates to some talk in the Scottish camp about the potential consequences of the Judicial review. FIFA could suspend the national team fro the WC qualifiers

Yeah Charlie said he didn't care about the future of the club a few months ago.

That's fine, I don't care one iota about him or his floundering Liverpool future. Match of the Day showing 4 or 5 'Hollywood' passes made his hype greater than his 90 minute talent. Don't know a Liverpool fan that has been impressed.

This is in the S*n. He knows it was a let off for £13m this year alone in unpaid social taxes. Too late it's gone to court and I think the court will uphold the appeal forcing SFA to make the decision again.

He is one bitter little man who couldn't cut it at ibrox. i for one are absolutely amazed to see him playing for liverpool cause the boy is pure rank!

I think that with this coming from a good Rangers man we should maybe pay attention.Maybe Shagger etc have told him what is really going on and he knows its getting messy.We have ignored legends in the past like JG so maybe we should start listening to them now.

Hopefully FIFA will.suspend the national team from competing in qualifiers after rangers have taken the case to the high courts.On the evidence of last nights performance they would be doing them a massive favour.

Slag Charlie Adams off all you want, the fact is, Charlie has a few bob to burn while Rangers haven't got as much as a ginger bottle left.

Incase Adam hasn't noticed its out the players hands maybe he Shood just mind his own business

27 May 2012 12:07:51
Rangers can be stripped of tainted titles, says SPL boss Neil Doncaster.

SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster has revealed Rangers COULD be stripped of any tainted titles under league rules.
The top flight's lawyers are continuing to investigate the stricken club's use of EBTs and if players were paid outside of the contracts lodged with the authorities.
Doncaster insists they won't be pushed into rushing the inquiry. But he has admitted that, if the case goes against Rangers, the SPL has an option among their 18 available sanctions to withdraw any previous titles awarded.

Bears 13 league and cups are at risk. These were the years EBTs were used. In one final every man on the park and on the bench was being paid his wages tax free offshore.

Rightly so as well.... If Rangers FC broke the rules, which the evidence now says they did, why should they keep the history of these tainted titles.
If we (Celtic) had done these crimes, then the Hectors fans would be calling for our heads.

Still can't get my head around the other BBC gossip, that D&P were not aware of the rules relating to taking the SFA to court..... Were the RFF not advising them on football matters.

Doncaster and the SFA are dragging their feet doing all they can to stall for you,he only mentioned the titles because Rangers took them to court and UEFA forbid this,the yare now making the right noises to cover themselves

It's time to start again. A newco in the Third. Let the rest have their day, the Aberdeens and Celtics etc. The clubs who love to hate more than they love their own club.

Let them have it all.

Celtic and Scotland have enjoyed Rangers Co-Efficient over those very years. They too werent asking any questions just like the rest of us!

I've had enough of all the bullsh!t being spouted by the bitter.

LET THEM HAVE IT, and we can start again.

GDog
WATP

13 League titles in the period of EBT's? EBT's started in 2001 and finished in 2010. Furthermore Celtic won the SPl in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2008 so that leaves 2003, 2005, 2009 and 2010 (i.e. 4 titles).

Rangers beat Celtic by only one point a couple of times and on one occasion by goal difference to win the SPL title. I thought it was down to bad refereeing decisions giving rangers all three points in a few games they should have lost. But obviously fielding offshore tax free paid mercenaries, gave them the edge and made the difference.

Look forget about 10 years of EBTs, second secret contracts evading tax, the scandals of the takeover, going into Administration, big tax case, small tax case, 273 financial victims, £140m in debt not to be repaid......

The actual act this year of deliberately withholding £13million of PAYE, NI and VAT to deliver second SPL place is crime enough to be struck off association football indefinitely, never mind remaining in SPL of going to Div3.

The Quantum of all the offences, without doubt should finish the club indefinitely. Never to return.

Hibs could win a title (cup) and thus give thier fans a boost.

Then these clubs can sue for lost earnings.

The OP doesn't say 13 league titles. It says titles AND cups; Scottish cups and league cups.
All that prize money needs repaid also with all games being 3-0 against Rangers. Recalculating 11 years league results isn't difficult. It's easy, I'd do it for free. It would be a pleasure!

The spl doesnt have the power to remove cups, only titles, since the sfa have allready stated they will only be part of the process should rangers appeal then we're talking maximun 4 titles.

@ poster #4.....so that means then Celtic should have and won 11 in a row...a new record not only winning it the right way with being the first to do it with 9 in a row now we go even further with 11 in a row, what a club indeed, even cheating clubs out of prize and europe money was not enough. for you had to go even further to cheat in order to stay around the level of Celtic and you also had to cheat the weeker clubs in order to beat them, that must really hurt knowing st mirren could have been better then yous if you didnt cheat.

To the Hector fan posting its only 4 titles.
1. So you admitt its 4 titles gained by cheating.
2, If the SPL do act and punish Rangers, the SFA will have no choice but to review Rangers involvment in both the Scottish Cup & League Cup.
3. Rangers might face other penalities as a result of the discovery of these offences.
4. The other clubs will be entitled to compensation for loss of winning and loss of earnings from taking part in Europe, so more monetary problems to be associated with your CVA.

This hopefully is the final nail in the coffin of Glasgow Rangers.

The SFA will remove the SFA cups.

In addition, they will be the body to appeal to should Rangers appeal SPL league title removals.

If a theif steels cars over a period of years then is cought and still has them would they get to keep them ,no they would not, take the trophey's off of rangers ther not thers to keep, this inbarrassment to scotland is only going to get worse before it gets better but the rules was broke and if any fan of any football club dont like them look for a diffrent sport ,queens pk fan sandy

As i have said in a previous post to this subject - the franchise- milton keynes dons decided that all wimbledons trophys including the fa cup , suddemly belonged to them and took pride of place in the newly formed milton keynes dons trophy cabinet- all mkd had done was bought a club and moved about 80 miles away to a new town and suddenly they had a full trophy cabinet. 9 years ago a group of wimbledon fans formed afc wimbledon and joined the minor couties leauge at the bottom of the F.A pyramid scheme. 9 years later and we were back in leauge football having beaten luton at manchester in the play off final. over a year ago the F.A then decided that milton keynes had no rights to wimbledons trophies and returned them to their rightful owners namely afc wimbledon, having deemed that afc wimbledon was a clear continuation of wimbledon fc. many former wimbledon players have still shown their allegiance to afc wimbledon and take nothing to do with the franchise, ie Dave Beasant, Dennis Wise, Vinnie Jones, Laurie Sanchez,Dean Holdsworth and Marcus Gayle to name but a few. Marcus has been reserve team coach with afc for the last 5 years , but this week left to join Staines Town as manager. All these ex-players still see afc wimbledon as a continuation of wimbledon fc and have nothing to do with the franchise mkd, and those at the F.A agree likewise as they returned all silverware won by wimbledon fc to afc wimbleon- so as far as im concerned anything that rangers have won in the past shall still belong to the new rangers , if such a scenario exists in the future. if anyone is in doubt have a look at afc wimbledons website or google the facts i have stated- they cant take titles away from the gers.

4 titles could be stripped, would Rangers then be allowed to include wartime titles in their history as Celtic do?

56 and counting??

To all the Dhims you only hope we get stripped of those titles so you can try and catch us but it wont happen and I wont admit we cheated because we havent been found guilty of the big tax case yet so until then shut yer traps, and if we do win the tax case i bet you lot will think HMRC are bent along with refs,sfa linesmen the list goes on...but back to the main point innocent till the jury decides clowns...and no you lot are not the jury you are just typical spiteful septic fans....

Tam-Sir 1873 Thinks come july that the mighty bears will still be here.

Hope your right mr AFC Wimbledon....would be brilliant and would annoy the hell outta the east end brady bunch..

Tam-Sir 1873 Still innocent though..

If rangers are stripped of 4 titles and theyre awarded to celtic would mean anew record of 10 in a row

Wimbledon won their trophies fair and square before they were bankrupted.

Rangers cheated theirs and are bankrupted also. Big difference!

The responses of rangers fans on here to the Wimbledon story is predictable slithery desperate try any trick.

Tam: Rangers have been found guilty but are appealing fines etc. FTT is an appeal case.

I support East Fife a small club that won the Scottosh Cup only once. They are the only 2nd division club to have won it. They were the first club to win the League Cup three times and I am proud of that. If I thought that they had cheated in any way I would be black burnin ashamed. Rangers fans accept that they cheated (withholding IT and NIC is not in any doubt) but argue that it matters to them what the degree of crime is. It is like virginity - you have it or you do not.

Tam: You may be getting stripped of the titles because you did not declare that your players were also being paid through the EBT scheme ( a 2nd contract). It does not matter if these were legal or illegal in the eyes of HMRC regarding tax.

They were illegal within the rules of the SPL as they were not declared when players were registered.

To be honest I don't care about it. The trophies won on the ground 'll remain trophies for ever.

Tam the Hector fan.... why are yoy behaving as a moron...... yes they were won on the field.... but won by cheating the rules that apply to players playing on the field..... If Rangers had advised the SFA or SPL of the events involving these players, then the players would have been suspended from playing, hence not able to win on the field.... Get it real son.... Rangers have cheated.... Rangers have been found out.... Rangers will pay the penalty..... Rangers fans will just have to accept it...

Celtic won the title in 2001 2002 2004 2006 2007 2008 get your facts ryt first off and as for 9 in a row technically rangers won the first one but it was during the war so didn't count and Celtic didn't exactly declare there ebt at the time will they be punished doubt it

Doncaster is playing the stripped titles card as a carrot to appease opponents of Rangers Newco.

To rangers winning the war leagues.

Matey that was because most the great Celtic players of the time were off fighting the war..For Britain and the so called empire.. not hiding at home playing for the Hectors.

The end of wimbledon fc was also very political, nothing to do with the players on the park, i had to go to selhurst park to watch our "home games"- the politicians wanted nothing to do with plough lane, dons origonal ground, so we were nomads, and thank gog the move to dublin never took off- again paper talk at the time-how similar to just now- my point to all the timothys is the F.A returned all trophys won by wimbledon , from the trophy cabinet of the franchise mk dons to afc wimbledon at the cherry reds stadium in kingston upon thames- afc were also homeless at the beginning , playing at various venues until ground sharing with kingstonians- afc now own this ground and the trophy cabinet has afc wimbledon trophies, alongside wimbledon fc trophies, because the F.A decided thats where they belonged- so SFA stop blethering rubbish about stripping titles, they were won by rangers and with rangers they shall remain.

It's one of 14 punishment options. In my uninformed opinion I suspect it's unlikely. I mean, it's a rather pointless punishment really.

There were plenty of Rangers players who fought in the War....MUPPET.

But no...everything Celtic related is perfect, with no wrongdoing, they are the true Saints of the world....

Thanks ed for posting my stories regarding afc wimbledon- I stay in paisley and im an ibrox bear, but many years ago, i travelled down south th watch wimbledon play away games at Newcastle, Sunderland,Blackburn and even a pre-season friendly against Port Vale- all this during the era of Jones,Sullivan,Scales,Ekoko,Ben Thatcher, Dean Holdswoth, Euell, etc and then more recently ive been down to the cherry reds stadium at kingston upon thames to see afc- crowds are regularly arouind the 4,000 mark , which is amazing considering then club had to start from scratch 9 years ago, but they came through the F.A pyramid set up and we survived our first season back in league football. So whatever punishment is dished out the gers will still be here, the players that the press are naming and trying to shame, did their job on the park, which as footballers thats what they were paid to do, just like the opposition they faced, who were also paid professional footballers- its just that the gers pro's were extremely talented with a manager in Mr Smith, who kept it all together. Dont blame the players, especially the ones that wore the blue jerseys- we were just better, pure and simple. Rangers 11 players beat the oppositions 11 players on the park to win cups and titles. Thats football.....get on with it timothy- Kilmarknocks 11 paid players beat you in the cup final- better check their tax returns and Hearts beat you in the cup semi- are you suggesting they had extra incentives, no, they were just better than you- so the titles will remain with the club.

27 May 2012 10:50:06
steven naismith will sign for everton the deal will be announced next week 2mill 4year deal

If he dose sign for Everton next week it will be for a lot less than that he hasn't proved he is over the latest serious injury and Everton cant afford to gamble, I think he will go for next to nothing or stay till January if Rangers can afford to pay his reinstated wages
DB77

Just spoke to Naisy 2 mins ago! Everton story's not true! Not saying he ain't going, but he ain't got a clue where the rumour has come from!
WATP

Ooooo just spoke to Naisy...hark at you.
Says he aint going but he may..well which one is it?...