Rangers Rumours Archive May 25 2012

25 May 2012 22:05:22
Darlington demoted 4 divisions today for failing to agree CVA with creditors. Wrting is on the wall for RFC.

The English FA dropped Swindon and another club 2 divisions years ago just because the managers took bungs on player transfers

The clubs and fans didn't do anything wrong but that's how it goes. Rangers crimes are tenfold worse.

We dont have a 4th division. graeme

Was this not also their third administration and both previous occasions they agreed less than 1% with creditors

Rangers play in the Scottish football league. Remember ? The one which you claim makes you the blah bla blah
The English league ,apart from the geographical, is as foreign as Serbia.. {Ed014's Note - Exactly.......just like Arsenal and Portsmouth problems with the HMRC that Gers fans keep brining up to compare.................

Although I agree to an extent with the first reply in terms of potential future sanctions involving Rangers (for EBT's and whatever else is lurking in the shadows), and the possibility of demotion being the consequence, post three has answered the actual question as to why Darlington's particular case involved such a severe penalty in comparison to other clubs: it was their third time in administration otherwise they would have received a ten points deduction in the same manner any other club initially entering administration would have.

If you wish to look at a purely Scottish example which resulted in a similarly severe sanction being enforced then you should examine Livingston's case in 2009/10. It makes for interesting reading. They had previously been in administration in 2004 for which they, like Motherwell and Dundee, incurred no penalty whatsover. On the 24th of July 2009 they re-entered administration whilst in the First Division. Four days later liquidation proceedings began, however new owners took over and the threat of liquidation was averted. Despite new owners, and a £720,000 bond given to the SFL which ensured they could fulfil their fixtures for the following year, the club were relegated to the Third Division on the 5th of August 2009, as they had effectively breached the SFL rules regarding liquidation, even though the process had not been completed and they had continued to trade and play under the same registration number etc. As a protest at the severity of the punishment, given they had remained the same entity throughout, Livingston categorically refused to play their first match of the 2010 season. Although initially threatened with a points deduction if they did not play the match, they only received a £3000 fine. They refused to pay it and won their appeal. However, despite essentially receiving no penalty at all for refusing to play a match, they subsequently remained in the Third Division after losing their appeal against that particular sanction.

We will be hit hard if the current cases go against us and we will deserve to be. Poster 1 is unfortunately correct, those are the rules and "that's how it goes". Appeals will most likely be lodged but I doubt they will have much effect given the multitude of offences we are being charged with. Some may be slightly reduced whilst others, like the transfer embargo for example, will be upheld. Most level headed Rangers fans will take it on the chin and move on. The club needs to start doing the same. No more marches or talks of boycotts, etc. Conducting pointless civil court proceedings at an expense, we the club, cannot currently afford, and blaming everyone else for our self inflicted problems is not the answer either. Let's deal with it like grown ups and show some humility. Maybe then we can hold our heads high again as fans and earn our place back in the top flight in a respectful manner.

Brian

This ruling is in relation to a law in England which protects foolball clubs status as preferred creditors ahead of all other non footballing creditors. HMRC (and others) have long since hated this.

This is not the case in Scotland where all creditors including footballing creditors have similar status.

"We dont have a 4th division. graeme"

We are down £30k Graeme, please clarify?

The league may be different so footballing penalties may be different but all British individuals or companies who receive income must pay theirs tax, Ni and PAYE as well as paying for goods and services received , so Rangers will still lose the FTT and hopefully if Duff and Duffer don't drop the transfer embargo the SfA/SPL will be forced to act by UEFA

To the Hector fan posting. We don't have a 4th division.

Have you not heard of the South of Scotland League.... several of the clubs are full members of the SFA and would be happy to apply for any vacancy created in the 3rd division, if Rangers were demoted 4 levels.

Ed014 - They may be different leagues and even different countries, but HMRC is a "British" organisation...

It really is quite wrong if within the Uefa empire, clubs are all treated very differently on admin or liquidation.
A club in England goes down 4 divs and one in Scotland only gets docked 10 points. Something very wrong there.

We should take being dropped to SFL3 and accept it, we can then start and support our team, taking travelling support to the likes of Elgin and so forth, helping out the smaller teams financial problems instead of lining the pockets of the SPL.
Yes it's been SDM and Whyte that has put our team here in this position, we can't turn the clock back, take our punishment like gents and do our best to put right wrongs. If we start in SFL3 would league reconstruction not be paramount in the SFA and SPLs thoughts so that they may get there precious TV revenue in.

Logiebear

Come come fellow bears, what planet are you lot from, some village must be missing more than one idiot. We don't have a 4th division!!! Dear God, RFC not some directors are in the wrong, RFC must therefore be culpable, all this trying to wriggle out of the penalties are totally embarrassing. What makes you lot think that the S.O.S. ( no pun intended here ) League would accept us. We have enjoyed a tarnished success in recent times, now we need to move forward, accept the penalties, my feeling is the more we fight this, the worse it is going to get.

Why is it anyone trying to put a different slant to the baying mob mentality that is the industry of killing Rfc, gets called, blind, ignorant, not willing to accept punishment, as wel as the regular put downs from Ed14 ?

Is it not possible to have another view without being torn to shreds?

I await the usual BS, that follows, someone's comments in defence of the RFC.

bil72 {Ed014's Note - Maybe if some Gers fans actually listened to people we wouldn't be in this mess.Stop trying to blame everyone else and knuckle down and get on with it.The tax man is fighting thousands of cases,there is not one of them that you can compare it with.Just because it is an HMRC case doesn't mean they are all the same.The only comparison we should be worried about is the one with Sion.

What an absolutely ridiculous post so the courts dont use precedents LOL Cant all be like the SFA and make up rules as they go along as no doubt a Civil court action will prove {Ed014's Note - Courts can only use a precedent if one has been set,so Sion ticks that box and as for the tax man there isn't any precedent.

25 May 2012 20:45:58
duf n duffer wouldny be doin this if they didny have legal back up as in lawyers who just know we are in the right.....pesonally i think the sfa boobed wi the transfer embargo.....it has to be in black n whyte(oops)...or havin been executed before which it hasnt.....they just made it up as they went along.......ther club have been punished enuff ...time to start punishing the perpetrators...as in murray and whytre etc....its a fine line but think im bang onsky..........big problem on here and other forums is were awe lawyers and accountants when we sit doon on the computer when at the end of the day were awe f****** plumbers or whatever....am an artist......(no comments pls)....deecee

Can't you get it into your thick skull even after 3 months. Murrey and Whyte = rangers . There is no distinction under the law . And another thing, do you not think the SFA have their own lawyers ?

So your a painter and decorator for the cooncil?
Your right to a point there was not a rule in place to deal with the severity of the crime, leading to them stopping short of pulling the license from the club, and putting forward a rule that could be seen to deal with the issue and appease the masses that something was seen to be done.
The alternative now is the court case is won by the club and the SFA are left with no option to revert to what is in black and white...to level out the severity of the crime and that means total ban from Scottish Football. it is a NO WIN situation for everyone involved.
Also you have EUFA and they will just swat the club like a fly.....silly silly silly move.

Are you kidding? Remember there was a judge and a QC involved in the original judgement and then the appeal , Duff and Duffer haven't read FIFA/UEFA rules stating clubs can't legally challenge governing body decision, remember what happened to Sion, oh and if the transfer embargo is outwith their powers they can impose one that is EXPULSION!

As a plumber,i can assure you ,that nuffin helps have commited an almighty faux pas.these guys are clueless and have just commited rfc to extintcion. problem is, they have probably stuffed all scottish clubs and our national side as well !

Remember Sion?

Aye they are playing a relegation play off tomorrow at half 2 because they got deducted 36 points.

Rangers beware

I am unfortunatly no Lawyer or Accountant, just an honest hard working tax paying member of the community who is disgusted by the almost daily revelation of yet more corruption & dirty dealings that have been taking place for years within Ibrox. Ranjurz/Whyte were found guilty on ALL points by an Independent Tribunal. & it was stated at the time the only thing that could have been deemed worse is match fixing, they could have expelled you from Scottish football & the only reason you got the fines & transfer embargo was because the tribunal bottled it!, now D&P (after having their appeal upheld) think this ruling is wrong & are starting a civil action!, which is totally against the UEFA/FIFA rules & will only make your plight even worse, How can this guy Green & his 20 odd secret multi multi wealth off the planet investors view this lunacy? as the powers that be from the SPL, SFA, UEFA, FIFA, HMRC Etc etc etc will now surely have to become involved & take swift & dramatic action to bring this long winded fiasco to a close. this whole scandal will live long in the memory not just in Scotland but in the whole footballing world! I fear the end is almost upon us!

OP, Ah'm nae plummer bit a can draw nice pichers o' flooers. You are a true artist.

Read what can be imposed anything as long as it is not above the maximum, what is the maximum? thrown out but this was deemed too severe so a transfer embargo. there is no way rfc (ia) will take this forward, sheer folly but the way your club was run and is currently being run nothing would surprise.

Thx for the comments plumbers...painter n decorator for the cooncil....luv it...deecee....

What grounds are we appealing or? The freedom of movement act within the eu?

Clubs need to start standing up to fifa. Fifa have too much power. They are mot above the law of the land and clubs should be allowed to utilise the courts when they have been unfairly treated

Are you blind D&P are crooks,who is paying the legal costs rangers these men are after a wage not the rangers fans interests. and as they know nothing about football, eufa will have a lot to say......b

Rangers can't afford expensive lawyers..... Also we know in the disrepute case , the rangers law presented a defence that had no case in law!!!!

So d&p sent a lawyer in with a defence of "it was some else's fault" and that defence not allowed under sfa rules!!!

Am sure laywers will say gers have a case , and charge even if it's a hopeless case

"Clubs need to start standing up to fifa"

FFS...Rangers have SFA,SPL and UEFA membership. They have agreed to abide by ALL rules and Statutes.

Your problem is Duff and Phelps haven't a care about Rangers. They're getting paid. Longer they drag it out,more they're paid..

This is another piece in the game that Whyte started last May...

This whole process has been strange from day 1.
What club has not lost 1 member of staff soon after entering administration?EVER?
What club has ever avoided more severe sanctions after taking civil case against football association? At Uefa's/Fifa's demand.

Do they not realise it will be referred back to the association as Civil courts can't reverse decision.
All D&P have done is make UEFA now involve themselves.

And although there is no mention of transfer embargo in the rules it does state "or any sanctions they see fit".

Maybe you would prefer they withdraw the lenient "unfair" and "illegal" sanction and just do what is allowed according to laws. Withdraw Rangers' membership(EXPULSION).

D&P have also finally confirmed one thing with this action. RANGERS WILL NOT EXIST NEXT OR ANY SEASON.

Yes I do feel for the real Rangers fans.

Im taking myself up to Parkhead the next time Celtic have a home game, im sure to come out with a degree in Law and Tax.

"Im taking myself up to Parkhead the next time Celtic have a home game, im sure to come out with a degree in Law and Tax."

Maybe take in a game when you're there...won't be any at Ibrox I'll bet! Few concerts maybe but that will be Whyte making a few more quid...Get real...how long can you bury your head in sand...You's are finished..even newco won't be accepted now...Sueing governing body..FFS..And you's stood back and let them do it to your club...Hope you're glad the fighting fund you paid to is paying lawyer's fees in a no chance law case... I Might not have a degree in law but you don't need one in this case...grow up and accept it's over or fight for your club...Bet you're all buying new jersey and paying for season tickets and have no clue where money will go or if you'll get money back when your club have NO fixtures next season...

Lawyers will tell you anything you want and fight any case you want as long as you have the money! - Jaxie

Yea tranfer embargo is not in writing butexsulsion from league is that could be the nect scenario

25 May 2012 16:21:15
It would appear that Rangers are now in court again trying to overturn the 12 month transfer embargo. If you're wondering how RFC are paying for this pointless legal battle...well...you know the money that the RFFF collected in order to pay off the small creditors well D&P are lining lawyers pockets with it!
it!
If Rangers lose this court battle all the money that hard working fans have donated will be lost. If they win I doubt it will make much difference anyway as RFC wont be spending £loads on players anyway! What do you guys think?

Can't say for sure, but would hope that Mr Green's consortium will be paying.
Suits their plan better if embargo is overturned.
P.O.B.

It is prohibited by Fifa for a club to take its association to the civil courts. Fifa rules dictate that the national association must expel any club which takes this action.

At no point were we ever advised that our money was to be used on lawyers on no chance cases.

Great, now we will UEFA on our backs as its against the rules to use civil courts in a dispute with national associations, Is it just me or is everything that wiil drive us to the wall is being tried ?

Sitting here in bar in bangkok and cant beleive this move. This proves finally duff and phelps are completely disengaged from the football world. After the bbc programme we should just stay shtum, take minimum punishment possible and go about our business. Fair do's but it gives us a chance to reinevent ourselves and come back stronger with real grass roots - look positive.

This way everyone will be even more against us, even the sympathetic spl chairmen. And where will it get us? Have duff and phelps not heard of Sion? Could it be that they are desperate for the investor who wanted to come in and buy players and sell them on for a profit? Shurely not....

I totally agree with the Rangers fan in Bangkok, these people are clearly not working in the interests of either Rangers or Scottish Football.
These people are are a disgrace, and maybe I should re-title them as the real Hectors , as clearly they are sitting in the big house unaware of the real world associate with football.
Rangers fans you need to voice your opposition now.... a walk to Ibrox is needed now...or in a few weeks time you might not have a club to support.

Rangers dont have a choice - they have to overturn the transfer embargo ban or they win nothing for at least a year.

That is the most stupid statement of the day...Rangers do not have a choice.
They could take it on the chin, get the kids in from the grass roots and else where keeping as many experienced players they have at the moment and help them through a season or two, starting in the 3rd division. so in a few years time they will be back in the SPL with a foundation to grow on and maybe just maybe able to find a few gems along the way to pay the bills and keep them in the black and maybe restore a bit of self dignity.
What is happening today is a really bad path to go down.....if it were my club i would be furious and so frustrated that my club is basically being raped and pilaged and slowly strangled to death.
For the real Rangers fans and rangers friends of mine I feel heart sorry for you all.

L

To Rangers dont a have a choice.
What would you rather have nothing for a year....or no club.
Thats the gamble currently being taken.

This is absolutely disgusting. ! This is the ordinary fans getting it up the jacksy again . They put their hard earnrd cash into a fighting fund and what happens ? It is being used to sow bloody grass on a pich that might never be used again the way things are going . Ant we find out Duff and Duffer will use it to take the SFA to court - a case they will never win in the first place ! In fact UEFA will hammer rangers as it is against the rules for a club to take its association to court. D @ D have to go - and soon !

Why are a club about to be liquidated arguing the toss about something that can have no effect on them whatsoever when they shortly cease to exist?

Totally agree , Rangers should fight this, transfer embargo rule to the end. This rule should have been in place before, they cant make up the rules as they go along. SPL cant get it all their own way ( we want to punish rangers but we also want to keep Rangers in the SPL) If the embargo stands , Rangers should demand to play in division 3, Then the s++t will hit the fan.

They may be backing the SFA into a corner, if the transfer embargo gets dropped, the one serious option left is to suspend your membership. You would be wise to swallow the transfer ban and be quiet.

Gers fan in bangkok spot on im gers fan in pattaya ha ha

Totally agree with this Rangers should fight all the way. Be careful what you wish for.....remember the SPL meets on the 30th to discuss league changes and other issues.... you were fast running out of friends last week, don't see you having many at this meeting.
The SFA will most likely if Rangers win this case, call for a review of the panels decision, and then impose the most severe punishments available, where will Rangers FC go when the SFA withdraws their licence.....Ok yes back to the courts to say you can't do this we don't think its fair.

Rangers were dealt with fairly, the crimes were severe, their board (IE D&P) would not even await the outcome of the appeal, now you will see how little anyone outside of Ibrox cares about your club...... I hope you now get hammered by the other SPL clubs, The SFA & UEFA.

D&P have done you far more harm than the SFA ban would have had achieved,

So RFC are asking for a Judicial Review.Whoever is representing them will probably ask for payment up front.t/his will cost the RFF(I assume they're paying again)circa 90k.
What we're asking with a judicial review is that a senior scottish judge overturns a ruling by a senior scottish judge,saying he was incorrect by not overturning a ruling made by a senior scottish QC.
I don't hold out much hope of success.
FIFA rules,also, do not allow member clubs(like RFC)to take their governing bodies(in this case the SFA)to court.this could lead to the SFA having no option but to expel us.If D&P don't know this then they shouldn't be in the job.

The rules states that the SFA panel can issue "any punishment they deem fit", the verdict stated that despite the severity of the breaches of rules, they thought kicking you out of the league was perhaps too harsh, and therefore used their powers to issue a transfer embargo of 12 months.

The verdict was passed down by Colin John MacLean Sutherland, Lord Carloway a Senator of the College of Justice, a judge of the Supreme Courts of Scotland, sitting in the High Court of Justiciary and the Inner House of the Court of Session.

He oversaw the Transco case in which they were fined a record £15m in 2004 and it is doubtful that the Court of Session will go against the verdict of such a high ranking and respected legal figure.

When the SFA remove your membership toy will not be able to join the SFL, so be careful what you wish for!

25 May 2012 15:07:21
So Bill Miller withdrew his bid to buy Rangers after being told the SPL had enough evidence to prove Rangers EBT'S were in breach of the rules!

David Roberts of Millers lawyers Olswang
" the view that the SPL took was that there was sufficient evidence to indicate that the way that Rangers had been paying their players was via a dual method, the payroll and EBT'S, so there is a case to answer for"

More interestingly

" what Duff and Phelps said to us was that there may be some reticence pushing the investigation forward because a beneficiary of the EBT payment ( Campbell Ogilvie) was now on the SFA board, but we saw no evidence of that. My genuine belief was that this was an issue that gave rise to a potential breach of the rules and the SPL were discharging their governing body duties looking at it. It may also breach the SFA rules as well. It was something being taken very seriously by the authorities"

This is Bill Millers lawyers talking here, so serious credence must be given to these statements. Time for Ogilvie to go!.......JohnnyG

Only a rumour but another nail in D & P coffin me thinks....Johnny G

D&P have been caught out being economical with the truth, underplaying the gravity of the Rangers situation to buyers.

25 May 2012 12:12:33
CVA details will be on rangers website today.... In evening times

OK
I'm still waiting

25 May 2012 00:09:51
Bocanegra saying he will not accept any more pay cuts. He is the first to put his head above the parapet, don't think he'll be last

Source?

Would you take a 75% wage cut?

After watching the BBC doc just imagine what the players who accepted pay cuts proposed by Duff and Phelps must be thinking... simply that they have been duped along with all the rest of us!!

How have they been duped? They had to take a pay cut because there was no money. It was either that or crippling redundancies.

Far from being duped this might be the first time anyone came close to being honest with them! - Jaxie

He,s quite right he should get what he agreed to, i would not take a wage cut nor do i belive anyone else would, but if u would let your boss know im sure he will arrange it for you :) {Ed001's Note - I used to work in a business that asked everyone to take a major pay cut, it was either that or the business would have closed down. The pay cut was voted in by a huge majority, because people could see that it was either that or no job at all. I don't see any difference here, they either accept the pay cut or they look for another job, it is up to them. But there are hundreds of unemployed footballers around right now, they might end up joining them if they are not careful.}

Totally agree ! the p[layers have been sold a puppy . Also the club are going to lose out big time . I was wondering at the time why the players agreed to this deal . Then the cut price transfers come out , Who is the big loser in this ? the club of course . Duff and duffer should be run out of town. They have cost the clum millions plus they will be taking milliond for themselves. The BBC doc showed them up for what they were .

Can you blame him given recent events!

Bocanegra says he won't take another pay cut

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/05/25/rangers-in-crisis-usa-international-carlos-bocanegra-warns-club-he-won-t-take-another-pay-cut-86908-23872803/

What pay cut did D&P take. Just asking

Mojo

Fed up with all the non believers everytime someone posts a rumour or story , source ? try believeing or look at sky sports or the papers becuase guess what the poster is spot on ....

The Airport Bear

The players never agreed to wage cuts.
They were wage deferrals. There is a difference. "Cut" - lose forever.
"Defer" - suspend till a later date.
P.O.B.

To Mojo, D&P aren't employed by rangers, the players are.
Al

Ed do you think the captain of America will struggle to get a contract somewhere? {Ed001's Note - probably not, but I doubt he will get the same wages as he is used to, they are dropping everywhere these days other than the big few clubs.}

Taking a 75% pay cut when you are earning £10k or more a week is not that big a hardship - i was asked to work for 3 months last year without any pay - as were my 11 colleagues - and we all did it to safeguard our jobs, it's the way things are these days. The players need to get over themselves and stop trying to make it sound as if they're really struggling.

Yes but the career is short. And we all live to our means. If you sign a 2 or 3 year contract for ten grand a week chances are you have expensive cars and a large house to rent or mortgage . So I don't think its fair for them to take any more cuts. Fair play to them if they do but a contract is a contract. And I understand players at low level not having much choice as they would find it harder to find another club but majority at rangers are internationals. I note Chris Kirkland walked out of Wigan straight to sheff wed yesterday. So I think Boca and the rest will get contracts in England somewhere.

Captain america is just letting everyone know in a nice way that he will be gone first chance he gets

Captain America shouldn't bother coming back. He was promised Euro football and didn't get it.

24 May 2012 23:48:59
It is time we stopped all this self pity. I ask only one thing and that is the people who have brought this situation about, be punished. Surely, with all the allegations of fraud it should be investigated. I was brought up to believe that theft was a crime and if the people who have been in charge of the glasgow rangers in recent years have taken money, under false pretences, that is fraud and should be dealt with accordingly. I dread to think how our forefathers would react to the current situation, bearing in mind the words of the song 'I was proud to play for rangers and to wear the colour blue'. Hang your heads in shame murray, whyte and all their hangers on.

We must put our hands up to everything instead of I hope they don't discover this or that!

Murrays crime was only getting caught.

Totally agree ,I posted a very similar message on the banters page yesterday saying that I just could not believe that the police were not investigating this matter,and I still cant