Rangers Rumours Archive September 10 2012

10 Sep 2012 20:25:19
have duff and phelps ever made a statement denouncing craig whyte yet

D&P are not there to play the media role of tearing into former owners, they are there to conduct a legal, and professional administration. At the end of the day they have to answer to a court judge.

I doubt very much Lord Hodge will assess they have conducted a legal and professional administration. And I predict that anyone who thinks otherwise is in for a big shock in the very near future.

Mark my words.

Hamish

I am afraid you could be right Hamish D & P
and Whyte seem to have a history of their own, who knows where it could end. Something doesn't seem right,
Bobby

Why would they denounce? Their senior partner was heavily involved in the dealings that put Craig Whyte in their so they can hardly now denounce him....?

Iain

@3 exactly what i was getting at bobby

The administrators job is to get the best deal for the creditors by selling assets for 5.5 mil can anyone agree with that

While i agree 5.5m is seriously undervaluing the club, it was the only offer on the table so wot is best for the pot 5.5m or nothing? ah don't understand how they rejected the 8.2m offer from brian kennedy just before the green bid, it's all very strange

Don't think they are allowed to say anything as there is a criminal investigation ongoing.

Ah don't understand how they rejected the 8.2m offer from brian kennedy just before the green bid, it's all very strange
-------------------------------------------

Maybe BK's bid was not believable.
Didn't have the money.
Lots of If's and maybe's.

Duff and Phelps.......lol......denouncing Craig Whyte..........lol..........they're his own people.......lol.......lol........LOL........

Is 5.5 really under valued or where you not as big as you thought you where ??

They are all going for Dinner at Lawwell's house, so such statements may make dinner a little frosty!

10 Sep 2012 17:45:24
See Green has refused THe Rangers to attend EBT commission saying they have no control over us as we are not in the SPL. The issue is about our old club and titles would have thought he would have us represented and try and defend us from losing them. His arrogance shows he doesn't care about our history. He is only in this for one reason and that's money not for the club but for himself
Bobby

Just seen that too says club has never been part of spl, was he not saying a few weeks ago that we are rangers always have been always will be! Yet now he's saying we've never been part of this spl? This geezer for real?
Stuart nic

Hey bobby why dont you go on the gers website and read the full CG statement before putting the boot in to the man .
you may find that he did the complete opposite of what your post suggests. R/R

I disagree I think it's about time someone stood up for our club against this shambles of an organisation they just make it up as they go, Trying to put the fly boot in wen we're down I think there's certain people across the city with to much influence in this

I'm a bit worried by this, why would we need a deal regarding EBTs?

Green claimed that the SPL was previously willing to do a deal over the EBT claims to keep Rangers in the SPL, or playing in Division One, until the Scottish Football League clubs voted to place the club in Division Three.

Read the full statement mate a suspect your mr.timmey ? Well done Charles at last we have someone to back us up and say what we all know is true

If the issue is about the old club then that means the one in the 3rd division is a new club?

Are you delusional? it clearly shows he does care about our history as hes refusing to let them take our titals and i agree 100 % with what he said

your too cynical sir its people like you that does more damage to our club than good

Its hardly a case of putting the boot in when we're down, it's a case of punishing us for the thing which potentially put us where we are!

Lord Nelson

Well done charles, the man has balls and is justified in what he is doing. This witch hunt by lawell and his SPL/SFL chums needs to end NOW!

The ebt deal was with another bidder and not green .

It is good to see green taking the zero tolerance to that joke of an spl/sfa who have folded everytime their
Establishment club from the east as instructed them to.

Think Bobby is really Timmy "The Rangers?" not how i would refer to our club! Rangers!! Follow Follow.

Read the statement - this was a board decision that Mr Green is implementing - Gers ain't owned by a single person that calls all the shots now - so stopping treating Mr Green as if he is a Whyte or a Murray as their positions are quite different

He can say what he likes it wont make much difference although it might make him some money. The defence doesn't hold water. The SPL are quite within their rights to amend their own history and protect the integrity of their competition if RFC 1872 have been playing improperly registered players. They can strip the titles if they decide that is the appropriate sanction and Mr Green will be unable to resist this, I fear his comments are hyperbole

Grout

Hyperbole lol. As has been stated there is no legal recourse for the actions. Green owns the titles and they cant take them away. It's a simple equation.

Celtic fan here! and i know i will get heckled for saying this !but i am honestly confused about the old club new club scenario? green refuses to take sanctions for the old club as they are now a new club .... but insits in keeping all trophies and rights from the old club? i honestly dont care about the trophies or money but it just seems confusing ! slate me for saying this gers fans but you guys must wonder whats going on half the time.....remember the real people to blame are or used to be within the club but that has seemed to have faded from memory from some!! i wish it would all just stop.

Chalky bhoy!

So according to the SPhell we are not Rangers when it withheld monies won for season2011/2012 but we are Rangers when it wants to strip titles.

Having read the statement on the Rangers web site. I think CG is taking the correct stance.

Why would he or any officers of the new company attend a meeting about EBT's that were used by the old company several years before he bought the club?

Would attending the hearing implicate the new company in any way and make it liable to take further sanctions?

We now know that the new club had a carrot dangled (SPL or Div 1) in order to get them to accept the punishment for the old company. It could be said that the transfer embargo was a price of getting the SFA membership transferred.

It reeks from high heaven and shows that bigotry (maybe maybe not religious) drive this continued nonsense.

What will be gained? Can the prize money be recovered from a liquidated company. NO

The titles can be stripped from the club because of the club's previous actions. Or the titles will be stripped from the previous club, which is not the same club as is in the 3rd division. Take your pick.

Grout , double contracts?cfc had many a player on more than one contract so how do you suppose they punish rfc who published their ebt in accounts without punishing cfc who never included juninhio ebt in theirs-they came to an arrangement with hmrc but never declared ebt to sfa. People in glass houses.....

I think green is making a big mistake in not representing the club. If there's no one there to fight our corner it makes the spl's task all the easier.

Last poster. Which Celtic players were on dual contracts? Don't judge others by your own standards.

I am all for punishing any club who break the rules. If Celtic played Juninho and he was improperly registered then every game he played in should be awarded to the opposition 3 0. The same rules should apply across the board so RFC 1872 should accept the same sanction for every game where they played improperly registered players. The outcome is inevitably the stripping of titles. for the poster who mentioned legal recourse, do you remember what happened the last time you went to court, Green et al had to eventually accept the transfer embargo. Football authorities will decide the football sanction, surely Mr Green would not be as reckless with the future of the club as the administrators were.

Grout

Attending the panel only gives it legitimacy, so if you want to challenge in court later you don't attend

Juninho juninho juninho 1 player,.,.kbarry

The Juninho contract was spotted right away by the new owners of Celtic and the SFA were notified and all taxes paid!There was no punishment as Celtic were honest apologetic and upfront about it..thats the difference!And shareholders told Green?I think you should know or i,ll give ye a link that shows he is the only shareholder lol

Juninhio was only one player? so you only cheated once? however nakamura larrson and many others had two contracts one for football one for image rights amd before the hollier than thou mob say that doesnt count as english teams do that we are talking about scottish teams as english teams also used ebts if you want to use that argument.anyway its two contracts and they had others as well this is just the tip of the iceberg and all will be revealed when cfc are under the spotlight

Celtic declared juninho had a dual contract at the agm.then they were told some time later it was against the rules they paid the outstanding taxes.

Juninho ebt payment was his pay off when he left. he never played a game while receiving ebt. discuss

As a rangers supporter it is good to see charles green make his stance against the sphell the sfa and the that run these org th

Green is yet agin playing to a captive audiance. He is only saying what he thinks the fans want to hear, playing everyone like the "fools" he alreadty thinks we are. In his statement he makes clear it has nothing to do with THE Rangers.... which is clearly true as we have not won anything in the past.He and his consortuim bought Ibrox etc from Duff & Phelps they did not buy the titles they are still in process with our old club who are still to liquidated. At present even a blind man could tell that until the old club is officially closed only they and them alone can argue the case around EBT s issue.
This man is playing us all for mugs and its time to wake up and smell the "bul****".

Is the Op actually a rangers fan I'm confused lol

What are you talking about chalkyboy? Green has accepted punishment from the previous company which ran rangers football club.

1) he agreed to take an ILLEGAL transfer ban to appease the establishmebt.

2) he has paid footballing debts to other clubs in scotland.

All green has said here (and rightfuly so) is that the spl cannot issue a punishment to a club who is no longer within its league.

Greens rhetoric and stance is so childish.

Playground politics.

Fans will eat it up.

Green has not accepted any punishment. He accepted conditions of entry. The SFA were well within their right to ask Green to accept those conditions since Green believes that the club he is running is the same one which was responsible for non-payment of football debts and bringing the game into disrepute.
Al

Agree'd to take illegal transfer ban to appease the establishment, where have you been the moon, he accepted the transfer embargo so that Rangers would still be in football. If your going to come on here and spout this rubbish think you should see a doctor.
Tam

But SPL can impose a penalty (5 year ban) on a club, and it can be pending that club rejoining the SPL.

Go figure. IF Sevoc is not old rangers then no penalties and they can hand all trophies and honours back.

If they are old rangers they should accept penalties, or fight them in court. What will FIFA do if rangers go to court again!

We will not be stripped of titles but we will be found guilty & fined between 10 & 20M to keep the near bankrupt spl functioning. Green is right if we dont join the spl we dont pay the fine & the spl goes down the administration liquidation route. All the spl want is our money the titles are a smoke screen the slower on the uptake of our support will see it as a victory the rest will be angry. Green has the spl sussed more power to him. WATP

At above post you know this how. Are you part of the panel?

GOOD NEWS BAD NEWS

New Rangers can't be stripped of titles they don't have - Old Rangers will be stripped of titles they won unfairly, New/Old Rangers will receive a hefty fine, Green's purchase of Old Rangers will be deemed illegal, Ally will either walk or be sacked, New Rangers will win the 3rd Division, during the close season it will come out New Rangers bought player they couldn't afford, New Rangers voted back into Div 3, Green sells New Rangers back to Whyte for a fiver, Whyte sells the club back to Minty for a tenner, Walter returns, Greig, Ally follow and they all live happily ever after.

What sort (how many) contracts did Bellamy, Roy and Robbie Kean have. Also thomas gravesen, don't think Celtic would have afforded their wages without some help

quabba

@quabba: but not EBTs. Celtic had an owner who could afford to help out.

10 Sep 2012 00:52:33
Why is the flotation causing concern amongst so called fans, although I suspect many writing on here are not Rangers fans.
It seems to be them that are bringing the doubts about Green those that want Green to turn out to be another Whyte. Well Green is not another Whyte!
Green put his money on the table, Whyte did not.
Green has largely done what he said he would, Whyte
never did what he said.
Green could have gone already with a profit, at a time when we were in SPL, not div three.

Green took over and in my mind he never thought for one moment that we would end up in div three, he thought at worse it would be div one. But he is still here. He has attracted 35000 season ticket holders, and before we get the garbage about half price etc, which it's not, it should be less than SPL prices, but our season tickets are more expensive than other SPL clubs out with Celtic. He said he would do a share issue, which he will do, he is giving the chance for the fans to own the club. If mr green walks away with a healthy profit and Rangers are financially secure then I for one will wish him well and thank him for saving my club. The bunnet from the East end walked away with plenty, no problem there and yet we castigate a business man for wanting to make money. Get real.

I think Green will be seen in years to come as the saviour of our club, and if he makes a good profit, so be it.

Sure he has said some things that he maybe should not have, but there is one thing, he has told some home truths. It was bigotry that made these clubs put the boot in, perhaps not religious bigotry which our small narrow minded country thinks of immediately when bigotry is mentioned. The dictionary definition of bigotry is clear, "any opinion that differs from one's own".

I like him, I like the way he calls a spade a fu...... Shovel, I like his disdain for the authorities that have been shown up as unfit for purpose. I will buy shares, and I will buy them for my kids. I don't want a dividend, I don't want a profit, I want them to flourish and mean the same to generations as they meant to me when my dad first lifted me over the turnstiles.

I don't mind admitting that at the first home game of the season I had tears running down my face, because I thought I may not have a club to support. I do, thanks to Green.

Great post mate

Heartfelt statement. I hope he's the real deal. We have all had enough of clowns ruining the game. HH. Joe

A reasonably measured post. I agree, in that I'd like to see a share issue. I am a little disappointed that it took a carpetbagger like Green (et al.) to get us to this stage (Blue Knights, my ass). I am also concerned that the 'share issue' will merely give us non-voting shares (or some 1-10 split), so we will just throw money at them and they will still own the club. If it's not that, then I will invest for sure.
JC

Is that you Mr Green?? Lol am a tim and fair play to him for wot he's achieved but he's still not answered the most serious questions.....who are the backers? How is he financing the running of the club?? What is his consortiums medium to long term strategy?? I never was one that wanted gers dead an buried and still maintain that however in my opinion the jurys still out bout green and his secret merry men. I think gers fans should be getting answers before ploughing more money in just like a couple of previous chancers I can think of...

Agree with you wholeheartedly,well said mate.

Well said mate.

Do you know what mate that could be just about the best post ive seen on here, i actually think he has done a bit more with the caliber of player he has brought in.
craig+babybear

Green has largely done what he said he would,
Thats the bit I would worry about due to the fact that in one of his very first statements he promised honesty and transparancy. He has bent the truth more than once has failed to deliver some claims he made. Hmmm jury is still out for me

@ the OP

Well done that Man i think you have just summed up the thoughts of the vast majority of Rangers Fans you will probably get the usual Stalkers like Stevo, Binman etc coming on and slating your post with Sh**e about sevco (who ever they may be) its been a long time since i have seen and felt the sense unity there appears to be at Ibrox long may it continue.

once again fantastic post

note to Eds is there anyway you can start a new page for this mysterious club called SEVCO maybe SEVCO RUMOURS because we are all getting fed up with the Septic fans coming onto the Rangers Rumours pages venting their hatred towards this mystery club they seem to hate this Sevco more than they hate Rangers which is very difficult to comprehend.

Lochaber Bear

Well said, mate.

TC

Excellent post, guys like u that give the club the energy that we need to stay positive well done :)

Ryzabear

Agree with some of what you say but how are we supposed to put our total trust in somebody who says things like he'd got the nod from HMRC that a CVA would be accepted.

I said at the time that Green must have known a CVA had no chance of being accepted and just because he speaks out against Regan and Doncaster doesn't mean a thing. He's only doing that to get fans onside - which seemingly worked.

Sorry but just too many inconsistences in what he says (billionaires etc) for me to put any of my money into any flotation at this moment in time.

BARNEY BEAR

Agree a few [ rangers men ] walked away

Nothing wrong with showing a bit of emotion,mate.That's what football is all about.
WRT Charles Green,if he keeps his promises and rebuilds the club,who cares if he makes a few bob?.
What I will do,however,is urge a note of caution.CG may indeed be the saviour we needed.Then again,he may not.

Surely he is only giving you a chance to own shares in the company? Cos we all now know only companies can be liquidated clubs cannot.

What is said about charles green is true he is a true saviour of rangers corby loyal w.a.t.p r.t.i.d

The old rangers are gone , green is selling a newco , not the same club as the oldco

Great post sir i salute you.....les

Big 'anonymous' comment.

Wonder why.

Green hasn't put a penny of his own money into Sevco, he's levied a loan of £8.5M against the club to be repaid in 2020.

You would think the penny would have drooped!! Green didn't save anything, his CVA which would have saved the club was REJECTED!
He bought the stadium and training ground under the guise of Sevco and proceeded to form a club called The Rangers.

Do you think the 26,000 shareholders in Rangers1872 wanted profits or dividends ?
Or the 6,000 debenture holders?
See if you speak to these supporters of Rangers1872 (in liquidation) they tend to take a slightly different view to that of your idiotic self.

You make a few good points and seem to have bought in to a few of Charles Green's PR exercises. I would love to invest but I am struggling to figure out why we need to raise capital through shares at this stage in the process. What will we use the money for? We can't buy players for the next 2 windows, we have no debt to service and no investment is required in training facilities etc. Is this money required to run the club and if so what happened to all the investment up till now?

Jimbo Dell

You will be buying shares in a new company for the benefit of investors. how do those who had shares before feel now and who's to say that won't happen again?

Only companies can be liquidated ??BDO move in this month so watch and learn!

You make a few good points and seem to have bought in to a few of Charles Green's PR exercises. I would love to invest but I am struggling to figure out why we need to raise capital through shares at this stage in the process. What will we use the money for? We can't buy players for the next 2 windows, we have no debt to service and no investment is required in training facilities etc. Is this money required to run the club and if so what happened to all the investment up till now?

Jimbo Dell

Correct and why is it being floated on a "less regulated" exchange. Bears woould be nuts to part with thier cash for this BS offer!

Op here, I appreciate your comments in large. Let me point out that all debenture holders are still debenture holders.
To those that state Green said the CVA would be accepted are not telling the whole story. He said he believed it would be accepted, a big difference and frankly if his bid for a CVA was not accepted, none of the others would have been, he had the highest offer.

I have just read Green's statement regarding EBT commission. Good on you, exactly what should be done and said.
No More !

If debenture holders are still debenture holders why don't they have their seats or a refund?

Well said...Lets back him,we had so called Rangers men running our club into the ground for years.If it takes a so called outsider to be the saviour of our club then so be it.

I am extremely concerned at the timing of any share issue. It should take place st some point after 3-5 years of submitting audited and signed off healthy accounts to companies house. We were sevco Scotland ltd only weeks ago and sevco5088 ltd weeks before that. We haven't even traded a full year and submitted accounts for fans/ investors to scrutinise to ascertain probability of profitable returns.

To the OP
=======
After been duped by past chairmen SDM , CW and the directors, Rangers fans are having trust issues.

Is it that hard to understand?