Rangers Banter Archive August 08 2012

08 Aug 2012 20:29:06
I've been contemplating David Murrays comments again and I just don't believe his spin. All of this isn't going on because there's no evidence of wrongdoing, there's plenty evidence of course there is. FC Sion played a couple of guys not properly registered, they beat smeltic and got removed from CL. I think if our guys had letters/ contracts which were not sent over to SPL/ SFA with their registrations then were on a hiding to nothing.
It's not about EBTs per se and whether they are legal or not it's about full disclosure of players contracts (including loans that aren't loans and have never been repaid).

From what I've heard the original trustees of Murray's scheme in Jersey became so concerned about the way the MIH/Rangers EBTs were being operated that they decided to resign.

I wonder why they would turn their backs on some fairly lucrative admin fees by doing so?

BARNEY BEAR

Correct, it's not about tax avoidance at all. Even if EBTs are legal but not declared to SPL/ SFA then the players are not legally registered. The authorities need to know all payments to players.

Murray done his usual cleverly worded,deflective job.

Number2. EBT are legal, not if. and secondlly it is the SPL who are carrying out the investigation regarding non disclosed payments, they are not the football authorities, they are a limited company, why no SFA investigation? and Rangers do have a strong case to claim that the EBT scheme was payments made by MIH not Rangers and not as part of their football contract

@4) the SPL are investigating as it's their regulations on registering player contracts with them by all SPL teams that was broken by old club.
The SFA are the appellant body should old club not agree with the finding or punishments.
If Rangers had cotia EBTs and they were all above board, it doesn't matter, oldco needed to provide the SPL with every detail of each player's financial relationship with Rangers. That includes full disclosure of EBTs which didn't happen.

08 Aug 2012 20:06:14
On The Mike Astley posts earlier, does anyone actually beleive any Director at RFC was a "Rangers" man? They were out to self serve, get tax free cash for as long as they could get it.

This day of reckoning was always coming, if Astley wants to invest his hard earned brass, let him, the same as Charles and the consortium.

They might not be "Rangers" men, but it was "Rangers" men who got us into this mess before, so maybe its time for change.

Fair point, but Green's desperate to raise cash.

Good thinking those so called rangers men have put the club on its knees ,in fact they may have killed us yet .we may never return to our former glory although i hope not / believe me the wages that we are putting out are really frightning . because our crouds wont be big enough to carry this spending , the reason i am saying this is because , we had a laugh at celtic on saturday only getting 48,000 for the unflairing of the flag . well we only achieved 38,000 and that was our first ever home game bodes well for the future , i dont think

If signing £7K players get RFC a couple of extra home games in all of the cups then that will cover a good part of their wages.

Last night, 38,000 at an average of £12 a head, minus costs and East Fifes cut will give roughly £200K. That covers £7K a week for 28 weeks.

Mike Astley is a shrewd business man whom has made a fortune and won't throw his money at something if he won't make money in the long run. If he gets involved it is good news plus he has shown he is willing to put his hand in his pocket to fund NUFC.

P2...I woudn't say Green is "desperate" for cash but he can hardly trust us - the supporters to renew season tickets - therefore he's doing his job as any CEO should do, and look at all optios to ensure his business and shareholders investment is protected.

SPM

To 3) Don't you realize that the cup game gate receipts are split 50/50? You may have got 38,000 against East Fife, but your only taking half. The real winners are your opponents who'll make more money from 1 game than they could make in a whole season!

For a midweek game against East Fife,you compare Celtics opening game, raising the championship flag, possibly their biggest event in the league until they win it and they are 12000 short, get a grip, if Rangers couldn't afford the wages believe me, Green wouldn't sanction it.
We have got several million off the wage bill over the past few months, The management are building a team to win League/Scottish cups, This is the plan and I wouldn't rule it out.
BR

From 3) to 5) - do the maths.

38000 * £12 = £456,000

Add other income (catering, programmes & so on) then take away costs and half of the gate receipts for opposition does actually give an approx income of £200K

08 Aug 2012 17:38:36
Genuine Question: Did Rangers not get into financial meltdown partly because of paying far too much wages to players to try to buy/win the league and champions league? The players were mercenaries who would play for the highest bidder. What is the difference now with players like shelds and sandaza who are far too good for the 3rd division in Scotland. I understand the fact that the Rangers name can attract players but surely these guys must lack any ambition if they want to play in the 3rd division rather than at the highest level they can. Shields for example could have been playing champions league with a norwegian team i believe but chose scottish 3rd ! Why other than for money? This is not a dig at Rangers other than are they doing now what they did for years and overpay players for the league they were in ? And does anyone else think that players going to Rangers do lack ambition?

edg

OP fair comment, but RFC needs players to get results from the 3rd to the 1st and have to cope with a transfer ban until being able to buy a player until Jan 2014, 24 players left the squad.
Time is not on our side this now and expenditure on salaries has to be made to kick start the promotion aims of the Club and in turn bring in more income. I think you have to remember good runs in the cups means extra income, more experience and feelgood factor for the fans. Potentially having the experienced players will help not only in the games but also help the youngsters playing and in the squad.
I am sure that a lot more fans are aware of the pitfalls of the overspending, but are we doing that this now? I dont know what budget Ally has been given. I'll leave all the financial calculations and doomsday scenarios to be carried out by all the financial, insolvency and legal experts from the Smeltic Park.
At the moment I feel we have to go with C Green and see how he manages this season.

Ive been asking myself the same question, i wonder if the books are adding up, the only answer i could come up with is, secret investment to cover the cost of wages, buying players to make it more attractive to sell the club later on or SPL1/SPL2 will be forced through for next season

Remember one thing,every penny Green and his consortium invest in The Rangers is a LOAN! Payable after eight years,but at what interest rates?

7% interest was reported in the press!

@1. Turned out though that the celtic fans were right all along. Or are you still boycotting the BBC on behalf of craigie ? When's that court case starting by the way ?

08 Aug 2012 16:54:24
Is it only me or can anyone else see whats going to happen here. After this season Scottish football will be reconstructed to allow Rangers into the top division. This is the only way i can see these premier league players coming to Ibrox! dont get me wrong it probably makes financial sense for these players as they will be on more than they were on last season!! Watch this space fellow bears WATP!!

Not without penalties for two years you wont.shamrock

This is nonsense, if The new Rangers get into div2, and there's league reconstruction, it's div 1 teams that might get into spl2 not a second div new entrant.

Penalties for what now, already had enough penalties.

What is it with u Tic fans always wanting penalties

@1 FFS! You the same shamerock that said cfc earned a million from the helsinki game when it was a freebie for season ticket holders?

Walter smith said rangers should have stayed in the spl and given every team half the home gate money for three years. rather than going through the motions of winning the 3rd, 2nd , 1st. so if op is right you will have to face penalties for a further two years. simples. shamrock

I reckon the only thing that's simples is you shamerock!

Rangers1

I think you will find after leauge reconstructing rangers will be one of the teams that will meet with the stadia criteria so i would imagine a few won't be allowed in till its up to standard! just like it is now look at what ross county had to do!! *ksd*

That's rich! Rangers not doing time their punishment requires and trying to sneak back after a year.
Stadia criteria won't get you back, why should that be even considered when looking at a third div or second div new entry club? You would qualify for an spl2 and the SFL chairmen wouldn't allow it neither would the SPL chairmen neither would there fans. Oh and you don't have any history either.

Aw come on ksd . ibrox is infested with asbestos , the electrics are 30 years old, th plumbing needs renewed. { not the case at celtic , we have to renew it every time you come } last estimate i heard was £15m to make it safe. shamrock

I think you'll find that the only criteria the ibrokes stadium meets right now is fit for demolition.....asbestos ridden mire that it is


taco

To 10 and 11, are you both surveyors , lets see what your meccano stadium needs in a few years

08 Aug 2012 16:10:48
Mike Ashley To Buy Stake In Rangers

News in Scotland today is that Mike Ashley is in line to buy a 10% stake in Glasgow Rangers.

The reports suggest that talks are at an advanced stage and the deal would include Mike Ashley selling the Rangers replica kit through his Sports Direct stores.

Charles Green led a consortium that paid £5.5 million to buy the assets of Rangers from liquidation in June and it is claimed that he has negotiations the talks with Sports Direct and that, “Talks are at an advanced stage and the deal should be signed in the next few days”, according to The Herald’s source.

When you look further into the deal you can see why it would work on so many levels for Mike Ashley. A massive club fallen on hard times and the chance to buy in at a cheap as chips price with great prospects of potential resale value.

The merchandise side of it though explains even more, naturally the opportunity to dominate the Rangers replica kit sale is attractive by itself but when you learn that Ashley’s ‘rival’ JJB signed a £48 million deal in 2006 to sell the Old Firm club’s merchandise on an exclusive basis over the following 10 years.

That contract is believed to have lapsed when Rangers went into liquidation and this deal would underline just how total the Ashley domination of sports retail is in the UK – the current relative values of the two operations has Sports Direct worth getting on for £2Billion which dwarfs JJB’s current £22m valuation.

A source close to Mike Ashley told The Herald: “Mike has a great business. He certainly knows what he is doing on the merchandising, on the logistics front, that is for sure. Mike will want to get JJB out of the way and pick up the merchandise. It gets him a seat at the table”.

How can JJB only be worth £22m and have a single agreement with Rangers worth £48m?

08 Aug 2012 14:27:26
RFC sources last night told me current season-ticket sales stand at roughly 21,000.

Source: STV

Come on bears dont be glory hunters renew your books

08 Aug 2012 13:34:43
Newcastle owner Mike Ashley reportedly interested in buying a 10% stake in rangers and his company "sports direct" interested in some sort of retail deal with the club also.

Jas

08 Aug 2012 12:38:53
I happen to agree with everything the ed is saying. we only need 4 more players at best. the youth must step up and be counted now buying ten more players would be suicide to our finaces as well. we are in the 3rd league and as it stands our squad id more that strong enough to compete in that league and maybe win most cups too. we seamed to cope when we were unable to add players before so another year and a half in the lower leagues without signings should not be an problem

08 Aug 2012 12:24:28
Good Day Fellow Bears…

Well wasn’t that refreshing to see the bonny lads back in action! And let me say what a good all round job they did.

This is what I have been looking forward to for three hellish months, and here we are getting after it, a far cry from the witch hunting that has surpassed. However it all seems to have gone quite! I guess everyone has gotten a little bit fed up putting the boot in, well almost everyone, I see some flat heads are making noises today about us fiddling the attendance numbers, why don’t they all go away, f*** **f and bore the s***e out of their own kind, if they just hang on a wee while hector will give them something to chant about when he starts chasing the we ginger leprechaun for his miss doings! Haw haw life’s a breeze.

Its great being a bear.

OP - Nobody knows more about fiddling through estimated attendances than the Smeltic support. Part of their history.

@1: and yours too - if you think all clubs, including Rangers, weren't doing it in the past then you're totally deluded.

08 Aug 2012 11:33:50
not a rumour . . . . but does anyone know what the new away or third kt look like? and a link to view them, as they are not on jjb site?

Black with blue stripes ,just put in rangers 3rd kit 2013 google

Aye there oot in the skip mate... we only need a home top & an away top... don't be waisting any more money now ! get yerself over to ibrox, and support the team instesd !

08 Aug 2012 10:45:17
WHERE IS ALL THE MONEY Coming From ??? we couldn't pay other Clubs now we are giving these players all these Contracts what is going ON

This is simple mathematics, Steve Davis 25000 per week. Sandazza, Kyle, Shiels, Emilson 5000 per week thats 20,000 a week for four players and with greatest respect to Davis, Shiels looks like he'll be a gem.
With all the players that left and what we have now the wage bill has been reduced drastically. Onwards and upwards I think now.
Great turn out last night, well done to every last one.

The money is coming from Craig White and his puppets.
We need players to have a business to pay our debts.
All the money comes from Rangers fans we are debt free and have the same fan base as Celtic where do you think the money comes from to pay their players?

Are you stupid or something? We have a new owner.

It's the millions sneaked out the club just before admin, now being put back in. Simples.

The money has came from losing around 16m in wages from January. 5 players on an average of 5k a week only costs about 1.2 million a year. The season tickets sold so far have been worth around 4 million, with more to come.
That's without TV money, sponser money, matchday tickets and merchandise at the least.

People that think we have no money are wrong, Davis old wages paid for these 5 guys alone.

The five we have signed are probably less than Davis's wage alone.

But the club was running with huge monthly shortfalls - losing the wages of Davis etc. won't cover all of that. {Ed039's Note - 23 players worth of wages though, I dont think we should sign many more, a couple of journeymen and I will be happy for 3rd and 2nd division, the cups are not a priority just now, promotion is)

Ok expensive players gone cheapos in but there still has to be serious dosh going in even to pay the cheapos. We owe £5m in footballing debt! And green told king he would run it at a profit for investors.

08 Aug 2012 09:34:01
asked in the megastore last night about the away strip. was told the 3rd strip will br released first? but they don't know when. the away strip is apparently similar to Lille (France) red strip, but again the shop haven't a clue when it will be released.
will be interesting to see what they wear on saturday?

bil72

The 5 stars are coming off all of them.

I think they'll wear a football strip?

08 Aug 2012 08:05:27
who thinks we need a right back

Everybody should be thinking that including Ally.

08 Aug 2012 07:37:53
Barrie McKay ran the show at ibrox. An absolute stand out. Say what you want about opposition standards but this kid needs a game week in week out. Great to see Ibrox busy last night. WATP

He got caught on the ball a few times and looked a bit lightweight, but once he got his confidence up he looked like a really decent prospect. Hopefully some first team experience will bring him along.

08 Aug 2012 02:59:26
If Kevin Kyle has only signed for a year, the transfer ban will still be in force when his contract comes to an end. So this time next year, will we be able to extend his contract, or will we have to let him go as a free agent?

We can extend contracts of players already at the club, we just can't register new players.

Can still renew contracts of existing players. Transfer ban poses no problem whatsoever in renewing contracts.

Rangers1

Can sign free agents after August 31st next year anyway, rangers won't be paying transfer fees for a few seasons anyway.

I think we can sign contract extensions still . {Ed039's Note - Yes we can, we just can not register new players over 18 years of age)

But can sign a new contract as he's already at the club

I think we can extend existing contracts during an embargo. Free agent if he leaves at end of contract.

I think the transfer ban only covers new players coming in and not contract extensions of current players.

08 Aug 2012 02:03:46
Why do people keep saying we are wasting our money and don't have to buy players of this quality coz were only in the 3rd div? We are still in the cups and will come across an spl team soon, maybe even Celtic. Plus we are looking to build the sqaud over the next couple of years. I think Ally's done great with all his signings.

Ally has to put a team on the park that wins matches and entertains the crowd. If he doesn't, attendances will fall and that brings more financial issues. The question you have to ask is what is motivating these people to slag off the signings ? Or should I say, you have to ask what team they support. Maybe their team hasn't signed anyone yet, but they've had to let a good few leave. Maybe they are dreading what comes next after 54 ? Keep Believing.

07 Aug 2012 22:27:50
So is tonight the highest ever attendance for a Scottish Division Three league match?

Bill

No it was a cup-tie

Well done.As a third division club you must be so proud.

It was a cup game bill

No - it was a league cup game!!

No because it was a cup game. D'oh!

07 Aug 2012 22:16:41
Great news that we have signed these 5 guys, now lets use these guys for experience and start bringing in some you blood for the future. That's what is going to make us stronger 3 or 4 years down the line.

Wullie - RFC

07 Aug 2012 23:39:20
Team was outstanding tonight, especially lewis mcleod and Barrie McKay, Dean Sheils was superb aswell, dont want to get 1 step ahead of myself but i think this is what we will be seeing every week......


what do you think the bookies would offer for us to win all 36 league games?

(not saying it would happen but i think its possilbe)

Theres a really strong chance tbh if we can beat a 2 divison team 4-0 we can beat 3rd div teams alot more

I got 12/1 to win every game and 2/1 to go unbeaten

As much as im enjoying getting back to football Bears. Im not getting carried away after last night. Brechin showed, things will be tricky. Yes, it was our first game but last night was perfect for our victory. Weather was great, FANtastic turnout, first game at Ibrox. Somehow i dont think performances and result will be similar when we are at Peterhead and Annan in the middle of winter. Its goni be hard! Especially when injuries and suspensions mount. I think we should show our opponents respect and not brag about the possibility of going undefeated. The team went about their business in a professional manner last night. I hope it continues. RTID.

You are also a division 3 team

4).
We happen to be in div3 - theres a difference
Now grow up!

bil72