Rangers Banter Archive June 07 2012

 

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07 Jun 2012 22:14:33
must say i dont want rangers to die and i understand that no matter what or how hard anyone tries they Rangers will not pay everyone! But idont understand why the sfa / spl are punishing yous right now as they should wait until hmrc decide what they want to do ! look at england they help portsmouth ec.. while we punish our teams even more than the 10points deduction! but hope yousgo to 3rd division.

HH

CeeCee

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07 Jun 2012 20:34:20
Sky sports news war of words between green and king

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We dont need a war of words we need people to put their money where their mouth is or otherwise shut the f@@k up

JG

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07 Jun 2012 20:28:21
HM Revenue and Customs have arranged for liquidators to be appointed at Rangers should administrators fail to rescue the club.
The tax authorities agreed the plan with current administrators Duff and Phelps, it was revealed on Thursday.
Insolvency firm BDO have been lined up by HMRC should the current attempts to get the Ibrox club out of administration fail and they are put into liquidation.
The move was made by HMRC in April after Duff and Phelps produced their proposals to remain in post, which those owed money had to vote on.
On Thursday the administrators released the proposals approved by creditors, which originally asked them to rubber-stamp the appointment of Duff and Phelps as liquidators of Rangers should a proposed company voluntary arrangement (CVA) fail.
The result of the creditors vote in April has also given the administrators power to "conclude a sale of the whole, or part of the business, property or assets of the company" without needings creditors permission, should the proposed CVA be successful.
Now, should the CVA proposal funded by an £8.5m loan from the Sevco consortium led by Charles Green fail to receive the backing of creditors, the neutral insolvency firm would be called in.
This would be in the case of the compulsory court-ordered winding up of the crisis-hit club, or if a creditors voluntary liquidation (CVL) took place as part of a 'newco' switch.
According to documents released last week, in the event of the CVA failing, the consortium is "contractually obliged" to pay £5.5m for the "business and assets" of Rangers, which would be transferred to a completely different business entity, before the existing one is liquidated.
The details of the newco deal are "confidential" and it is unclear whether the money to fund it would also take the form of a loan with interest.
BDO and HMRC refused to comment on the agreement reached over the situation at the Glasgow club, which was plunged into administration on February 14 having failed to pay £14m in PAYE and VAT since Craig Whyte bought an 85% stake in the club in May 2011.

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I'm tired of this Newco 'switch' language.
Surely 'switch' = spiv scam?

If Green is 'contractually obliged' to purchase assets for £5.5m, then that's only if a better deal for creditors can not be achieved by liquidators elsewhere. It doesn't mean green is 100% getting the assets.

A switch is liquidation. The official end of old rangers and a brand new operating company. Achievements gone with the debt.

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07 Jun 2012 20:24:19
Craig Whyte threatens to sue SFA for defamation.

BBC

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This muppet said the same regarding the BBC in October, nothing came of it....

He is just brings more crap to the door of the Hectors, remember he is still the rangers owner, and if he wants a war with the sfa, then he is bringing the war to Rangers.

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07 Jun 2012 20:23:25
To all the tax experts out there please stop with the nonsense that HMRC does not reach agreements with anyone, check this out for yourself, HMRC's helpsheeet for reaching agreement on voluntary arrangements
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/vas-factsheet.pdf

JG

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HMRC will agree CVA with businesses as long as they have previously paid their taxes Now that is where Rangers dont qualify

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"We are also likely to reject a voluntary arrangement where there is evidence of:
evasion of statutory liabilities"!!
Is that the info your looking for??

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@1 take your blinkers off and you will see we paid tax for 139 years, this year due to some unscrupulous practice we did not pay tax. think we qualify OK

JG

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JG, my dear hector friend, not one year, the last ten years, with the tax avoidance of the EBTS, I think this will have some bearing on HMRC decision.

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3# Qualify okay? Your club committed the cardinal business sin of trading into an insolvent position knowing it was happening!

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07 Jun 2012 20:17:03
CHARLES GREEN - who is leading a consortium acquiring Rangers - and club administrators Duff and Phelps have reacted to allegations made by Dave King today.

Mr Green said: "Mr King's statement is breathtaking in its arrogance and is destructive to the interests of the club.

"My consortium tabled an offer, which was accepted by the administrators as the best offer for the club and its creditors and substantial sums of money have already been paid to the administrators.

"Provision has been made for working capital that does not rely on season ticket sales any more than would be part of normal operations at the club. To suggest otherwise is scurrilous and scaremongering.

"I would question Mr King's motives in urging the rejection of the CVA proposal which is the best offer available to creditors, particularly since he made no mention of this or any other issue when I spoke to him on the phone in South Africa last Friday.

"If the CVA is rejected then the club will be acquired on a newco basis which will not benefit creditors, nor will it benefit the club in terms of participation in Europe.

"In one week's time, we hope the CVA proposal will be approved by creditors and that will be an important milestone for the rebuilding of the club.

"It is also absurd to suggest I have not been communicating with fans. Only yesterday I had a constructive and progressive meeting with fans representatives which was one of many I have had over the last few weeks and there will be continuing dialogue with them. The fans will be kept informed at every stage of this process.

"People such as Mr King who, as I understand was not in a position to make a bid for the club, need to accept the realities of the situation and move on rather than continue to snipe from the sidelines."

Paul Clark, Joint Administrator, added: "I find Mr King's remarks disappointing and misleading.

"As he should know more than most, all shareholders, as well as creditors, have received access to the CVA proposals and all relevant information has been made public on the Rangers website.

"Mr King should also know, that immediately after the conclusion of next week's creditors meeting, a shareholders meeting will be convened.

"Mr Green, as the new legal owner of Mr Whyte's shares, will vote in favour of the approval of the CVA should that be the outcome of the creditors meeting.

"Mr King refers to a claim against the club. We have received a letter of claim from Mr King's solicitors which contains a number of broad and unsupported allegations concerning matters which took place some 10 years ago.

"The claims raised are neither accepted by the club nor have they been adjudicated by a court. We have written to his solicitors to ask them to provide evidence to support the claim, as all creditors are required to do.

!As a result, Mr King's suggestion that his representations have been ignored is entirely unfounded.

"If Mr King feels he has a claim against Mr Whyte or Mr Murray, then that is a matter for him and not a concern of the Administrators.

"The CVA proposal is completely transparent and gives detailed information as to different outcomes such as a newco or dissolution of the company.

"It is a comprehensive document and there have been no issues raised about its content by significant stakeholders and creditors.

"Mr King should also note that Duff and Phelps meet the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund on a weekly basis and will continue to do so."

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07 Jun 2012 20:14:50
Can these people not get a result like this for us after all the mismanagement that has gone on at rangers
http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2181291/duff-phelps-liquidators-win-usd450m-weavering-capital

JG

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07 Jun 2012 20:08:13
honest post.

ill donate a weeks wage to the RFFF if the name D&P dont get a mention on any of the daily papers for 1 week.

lenny

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Your money's safe Lenny.

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I'll donate a week's wages if you don't appear on here for a week Lenny.

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I see you dont say what week or have a time limit on this so we look forward to receiving your donation when we are out of the woods, hope you are on a nice wee earner

JG

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07 Jun 2012 19:54:21
Last year the Daily Record reported that a South African court judgement said: “In our assessment [King] is a glib and shameless liar”.

Adding he, “has no respect for the truth and does not hesitate to lie … if he thinks it will be to his advantage”.

So in same breath he tells us not to buy season tickets he confirms he's putting a claim in for £20m against RFC not SDM. That's nearly £2m out of the CVA pot.

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07 Jun 2012 19:40:28
Dear fellow bears, I am reaching for one of my wives anxiety pills. I am of the absolute conviction that lord Carloway will suspend us tomorrow. Remember the date. I am also convinced that it is liquidation and I believe D&P will move to liquidate immediately after CVA meeting. Hmrcs liquidators BDO will move in and D&P might only get 1p in the £ also.

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Black Friday

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07 Jun 2012 19:15:33
Just saw BBC news . The talk now is who will be appointed the liquidator and it won't be Duff and Duffer. King is telling fans NOT to renew their season tickets. Also we have Big Derek in the evening Times telling us that rangers should now accept the years transfer embargo - a major shift from what he was saying last week/month. Even he realises the alternative punny is much harsher. Incidently, there was another item on the programme - a businessman was sent to jail for 5 years for guess what ? You got it - TAX EVASION

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07 Jun 2012 19:08:24
An Ayrshire man jailed today for not paying his taxes .... no not Sir David !
Is this the example of double standardsthat is so upsetting our friends accross the
country. HMRC are on a hiding if they are not seen to be working in a level playing fiekld
Interesting too to see Duff & Co.
recognising their cash cow is about to be slaughtered and that BDO are on stand by to liquidate in a perfect world they would be exposed as shoddy tradesmen are when their performance performance is below acceptable standards

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07 Jun 2012 18:34:01
Ok I may be wrong here but it's 2 people who are at fault for not paying taxes 1 confirmed guilty the other it's still to be proven so all these ppl that come on here having a dig at the players.

Every single person in this world complains about how much tax gets taken off their pay line If there was a legal way of not paying as much tax then of course we would all jump at the chance I do honestly believe that players did not know that what was going on was illegal yes it's a loop hole but not illegal.

Hindsight is a great thing but I'm sick of ppl taking the moral high ground on this when they would all do or possibly have done the same or similar eg self employed ppl not everyone declares exactly how much they earn benefits if u get given more would you phone up right away to give it back would you f!?,.£&k.

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Are you kidding, Celtic fans have never in their lives complained about paying their taxes. They absolutely love paying their tax....

TTG

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How stupid must you be to not have grasped this yet?You say"IF there was a legal way of not paying as much tax" Well there you have it.EBT's are LOANS,properly administered they are paid back over time.No player or any of the management team were asked to repay anything cos they were part of a salary package.This is was makes it illegal!

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Wrong. The loans are typically never paid back. Wish the record or Sun would do a 2 page spread explaining how EBTs work in normal business practice, and why it isn't tax evasion. Might shut a few of you wannabe tax consultants up for a while. SG

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Wrong. The loans are typically never paid back. Wish the Record or the Sun would do a 2 page spread explaining how EBTs work in normal business practice. Might shut a few of you wannabe tax consultants up for a while. SG

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3#In what world do you live in? If you have income it is taxable,if you receive a loan you pay it back.To claim a payment through an EBT is not liable to taxation is clearly wrong.Name one income stream that is not taxed? Even private pensions are taxable while the contributions are tax deductable.

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@5 and all the other experts (and apologies for the double post earlier)...

From thetaxguide.com: These Trusts are established by the employer and run by a trustee, and are normally funded by contributions from the employees. This normally begins with a minimum first sum, after which individuals are encouraged to build up the pot as much as they can. In return, employees have access to a number of highly tax-efficient benefits. Furthermore, they are attractive to employers as all contributions to the EBT will be entitled to Tax Relief, as well as being exempt from PAYE and National Insurance Contributions.

From an employee's point of view, loans offered through an Employee Benefit Trust can be a very cheap way of borrowing money. First, it is important to understand how the loan is paid back. This type of loan is judged to have no repayments 'in perpetuity' – in these circumstances, the term of perpetuity is judged to be 80 years. Instead, the money is recovered by the employer through wage deductions. Furthermore, as the employer is already receiving tax relief on the EBT, the loan is unlikely to incur any interest, making it a far more attractive option than a high street bank.

Tax Relief The savings on these loans, however, are two-fold. Not only is the employee unlikely to be required to pay interest, they will also receive personal tax relief on the sum that they have borrowed. I

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6# "And are normally funded by contributions from the employees" And there it is.The rangers EBT's were funded by rangers to gain tax relief on the sums and to pay higher wages than they could afford."not only is the employee unlikely to PAY INTEREST" but taxation im afraid is certainly due on these sums

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Poster 5 ,if you have income you pay tax on it ? example if you have income of £ 133.76 a week you dont pay tax or n.i on it so where are you coming from doug t.s.o

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8# How pedantic! So all ibrox employees earned £133.76 per week then?

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Poster 8 of fancy words ,get your facts right before you post wrong facts ,do you pay tax ? well you would know that you dont get taxed till you go above your personal allowance ,your talking to a man whos ran his own business for 38 years ,qanything else you would like to know ? dont throw your boomerang tonight it might come back and hit you doug t.s.o

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07 Jun 2012 18:04:20
Rangers in crisis: Shamed owner Craig Whyte hits back by threatening to sue SFA for defamation

RANGERS' controversial owner Craig Whyte has turned the tables on the Scottish Football Association by threatening to take them to court for defamation.
Whyte had already been deemed unfit to hold an official position in the game by the SFA when he was handed fines totalling £200,000 by the ruling body in April for bringing the game into disrepute.
At the same time the administration-hit Ibrox club were handed a 12-month transfer embargo - which was successfully appealed - and fined £160,000 after being found guilty of five charges relating to their financial affairs and the appointment of Whyte as chairman.
The Motherwell-born businessman has refused to pay the fine, which he initially described as "a joke" and it was reported this week that the SFA's legal team were ready to pursue him through the courts for the money.
However, when Whyte was asked by Press Association Sport for his reaction to the prospect of legal action being against him, he replied: "I will be going after them. I will be looking at legal options against the SFA.
"They have a lot to answer for with their defamatory statements about me which formed the basis of their so-called investigation.
"Scottish football's regulators are inept and have showed themselves up. But they have no jurisdiction over me."
The SFA declined to comment. {Ed039's Note - He is sueing, that old chestnut again)

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Really helps...... 'Rangers Owner' belting it out like this against SFA day before they pass judgement on us.
Also this news outlet called Charles Green 'Rangers Owner' yesterday..... Total mind feck.

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07 Jun 2012 18:02:59
Director Dave King calls for Rangers CVA rejection
Rangers director Dave King is urging creditors to reject Charles Green's company voluntary arrangement when they meet on 14 June.

South Africa-based King has also called on the club's supporters not to renew their season tickets until Green's consortium details its plans.

"I am opposing the CVA and urge all loyal fans to do the same," said the exiled Scot.

"We don't want to be back in a similar situation next season."

And King, Rangers' second largest shareholder, added: "I also believe that all true Rangers fans should not buy any season tickets until full and frank disclosure has been provided by Duff & Phelps, Mr Green, and [owner] Mr [Craig] Whyte, as to what is truly going on behind the scenes."

King argues that the CVA should be rejected by creditors because neither administrators Duff & Phelps nor Green's consortium has provided enough information about how it would fund the acquisition of the club or invest in it in the future.

Nor, he claims, does the consortium's £8.5m offer give him comfort that it has the "requisite business skills", appreciate that "the club cannot be run on purely business principles" or "recognise that the fans are key stakeholders in the club".

Duff and Phelps published revised and approved proposals to creditors on Thursday.

Among the revised proposals was that HMRC would nominate Malcolm Cohen and James Bernard Stephen of BDO as joint liquidators, rather than Duff & Phelps, if the club was to be wound up.

King says he has informed Duff & Phelps that he is claiming from the club £20m in damages - the value of his initial investment in Rangers - "based on the deliberate non-disclosure by David Murray of transactions that he had committed to on behalf of the club that were both risky and to the sole advantage of the Murray Group".

He says the firm has ignored his representations.

King states that, should the matter come to court, he will garner support from fellow "aggrieved investors" to seek reparation. He claims he would reinvest the cash back into the club.

Meanwhile, Whyte, who has agreed to sell his 85% shareholding to Green's consortium for £2 - another point contested by King - has stated that the CVA "is the best way forward for the club and it will leave Rangers in an excellent situation".

Rangers entered administration in mid-February, nine months after Whyte acquired the majority shareholding from Sir David Murray.

"My shares will form part of the consortium's shareholding and after that I will focus on other activities.

"It has certainly been an eventful year but I did what needed to be done, unpopular as it was. There was no alternative. It had to be done.

"If it wasn't me it would have been someone else.

"People will look back in a year or two with a different view. People have conveniently forgotten the state Rangers were in at that time.

"I should have taken the club into administration on completion of the deal.

"But there was no way the situation would have been avoided unless someone came in and put in £100m and we have seen in recent weeks how difficult it is to get anyone to put money into a football club."

Whyte is threatening to take legal action against the Scottish Football Association, who deemed the businessman unfit to hold an official position in the game when he was handed fines totalling £200,000 for bringing the game into disrepute.

"I will be going after them," he said. "I will be looking at legal options against the SFA.

"They have a lot to answer for with their defamatory statements about me which formed the basis of their so-called investigation.

"Scottish football's regulators are inept and have showed themselves up. But they have no jurisdiction over me."

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It's liquidation!!!!!!!'

King knows it.

HMRC have given feedback to CVA and it had been rewritten with the specific names of two liquidators. Who gets all that inserted into a CVA if it isn't going to be liquidation?
I think the players and Murray park will be sold for CVA so that HMRC and Ticketus get a few million. But it's defo liquidation now.

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Among the revised proposals was that HMRC would nominate Malcolm Cohen and James Bernard Stephen of BDO as joint liquidators, rather than Duff & Phelps, if the club was to be wound up.

This whole article with news of Whyte and green etc,.... Is to hide the above statement in a lot of noise. The above means liquidation.

HMRC do not insert articles such as above unless they are liquidating. These guys are defacto appointed.

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Well folks, i think we've finally reached end game. HMRC are not going to accept the CVA and are getting things prepared for Liquidation. Think they already know the way the BTC judgement is going also and are determined to get their team in. Newco and 3rd division is now looking a reality.

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1&2 could be wrong but think this is standard practice as fall back, don't have the doom and gloom of half the posters on here but then I'm a Gers supporter and not one of the crocodile tear mob who hide among real rangers supporters posts

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07 Jun 2012 17:43:53
Murray Park might be renamed the
Moses McNeil Academy or the Davie
Cooper Academy.Season Ticket
holders will get to vote with their
renewal slips.

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William Waddel training complex sounds better to me,he was the only man (yet)to bring us european success

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WOW! great breaking news! Are you up a mountain somewhere?

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Tha'tll be the first time that Moses has led "the people" into the wilderness then. And itll be a for a lot longer than 40 years.

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07 Jun 2012 16:06:47
Prospective Rangers owner Charles Green has promised supporters neither he nor his consortium will mortgage or sell Ibrox Stadium or Murray Park.

Green met the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund group on Wednesday.

The RFFF say they "secured a commitment that he and his consortium will not be mortgaging nor disposing of any of the property assets

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Only the owner of the club can make that decision. that is still whyte as the deal is not final.

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Pmsl,because ibroke& minty park will be nothing to do with this charlatan,all assets be sold off in a fire sale at the liquidation scavanger free for all!!!its over wake up bears,next season honestly how many fans will FOLLOW the new entity that emerges??stevo

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Of coure he wont.he doesnt own rangers,and his proposal means he never will.ITS A LOAN.who to and what purpose i dont know.but i know you cant lend yourselve money from a company you dont own,to purchase said company !!

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07 Jun 2012 15:19:53
Gennaro Gattuso Eyeing Sensational Rangers Return

Italian midfielder Ivan Gennaro Gattuso could be in line for a sensational move to cash-strapped SPL side Rangers.

The free agent, whose wife is Scottish, has previously gone on record to say he would love a return to the club he represented between 1997 and 1988 but Rangers’ administration made any potential deal unlikely.

The Ibrox club have been hit with a transfer ban by the Scottish Football Association but Gattuso’s agent, Andrea D’Amico, has confirmed the 34-year-old World Cup winner is interested in a return to Glasgow should the situation change.

“There are different paths open to Gattuso and together we’re going to find the best solution”, D’Amico told Sky Sport Italia. “He still has a lot to give in the game, many teams are aware that he trains and can take to the field shortly,” he added.

“Rangers? They are one of the possibilities,” he added.

In a 13-year stint with AC, Gattuso won the Champions League and Serie A titles twice and formed a legendary partnership with playmaker Andrea Pirlo. The 5 foot 9 inch midfielder has been involved in a number of controversies during his glittering career, including grabbing Tottenham Hotspur assistant Joe Jordan – formerly of AC Milan – around the throat, when the sides met in the Champions League in February 2011.

Gattuso has said he will continue playing for at least two more years.
LiamsBiz

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Eyeing ! quite funny. he has one eye on the main chance.and the other on...........well he only has one. get real idiots !!

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07 Jun 2012 14:44:34
Hi chelt blue. Im on here because its a web site that lets you give an opinion. So like you i shall give an opinion. I support my local junior team and have done for over 40 year and its us when we won the league and its was still us when we got relegated. I would also like you to know that we as a junior club have also got to pay tax on players wages and some of them dont even get 30 pound a week. Just how many rangers games do you go to a year? Im not a fan of a club in s p l

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Load of guff

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Go post your 'opinion' somewhere else. Like where somebody gives a toss for starters.

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I personally value your opinion. However are you the man who pays the tax or a supporter? Im a supporter so have no say in the running of our club. (Unfortunately) I used to go regularly to Ibrox but now find myself 300 miles away with 3 kids. The only thing I miss about Scotland is going to the football. CheltBlue.

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07 Jun 2012 14:13:52
Well in the land of fairy tales, Rangers may yet "get away with it" and be allowed to continue in next year's SPL and sign players! So as a change to my normal objectivity I will embrace "hope' and suggest my team for next season....for comments from respected fellow bears...

Firstly SELL the following "team":

1. Alexander

2. Ortiz
4. Goian
5. Broadfoot
3. Whittaker

6. Kerkar
8. Davis
10. Edu
11. Bedoya

9. Lafferty
10. Healy

We sign a few FREE AGENTS - older and experienced admittedly but this also supports the younger players... and put out the following team

We PLAY....

1. McGregor

2. Robbie Neilson (Currently on a FREE)
4. McCulloch
5. Bocanegra
3. Wallace

6. Ness
8. Ian Black (Currently on a FREE)
10. McCabe
11. Aluko

9. Naismith
10. Little

In reserve we have:

- Cole
- Perry
- Hutton
- Hemmings
- K. Naismith

Sacrifice most of the high earners bar McGregor and Naismith - both of whom I believe want to stay even with a modified, modest pay cut....have a very experienced defence which guys like Neilson ex Hearts and Dundee Utd and big McCulloch offer alongside Bocanegra one of last seasons bright lights....throw in Black as some muscle to protect Ness and McCabe...and I think we have a team who can certainly compete.....plus most are Scots so will have that extra 5% passion!

Of course pigs may have to fly for that team to take the field next season but for 10 minutes this afternoon, I am allowing myself to dream!

SPM

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I'm sure the champs would be worried facing that team .Henke7

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@1 you will be when Lennon walks!

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@1. bet a wee bit of pee came oot when you typed "champs" eh? doesnt happen that often for you mate. so ill let you have your moment x

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I wouldn't have Neilson, he's slower than a week in jail. Would allow Little to leave, don't rate him at all. Big Jig too slow to play centre half and i'd give Bedoya a chance as he was beginning to look half decent after a run of games.

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@3 i lol at that class
trueblue

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@3. That made my morning. Banter isnt dead lol. CheltBlue

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07 Jun 2012 13:59:51
Dear Fellow Bears

I haven't posted here for a few weeks. That's due to all the continued speculation and rumor / counter-rumor that almost overwhelms newspapers, radio phone ins etc on the subject of what Rangers should do...or not!

Upon reflection, I seem to be clearer in what I would LIKE my club to do albeit I know that reality will probably prove much different.

One of the things that always made me proud to be a Rangers fan - away from the footballing side - was our reputation as a dignified, respected, ethical business. Sure I know the sectarian element has always been there until recent times but you can't always look at the past. We should be commended for attempting to change and modernise the Club which I would hope any fair minded Celtic or other club supporter would acknowledge with regards the club post 1988.

It therefore saddens me and deeply concerns me as to whether or not I will be able to support and love RFC should it ultimately survive via the route of CVA or Newco. The consequences of continuing via one of these two routes will forever damage our reputation - at least for the remainder of my life and my generation.

I actually think SELF-RESPECT is worth paying a price for. Therefore I wish we could be void of the snake-oiled salesman such as Whyte and Green who surround our club like vultures and instead recognise using the assets of the club could mean the following:

a) Continued History of the Club
b) Restore significant lost Credibility and Respect of our peers as well as regain self-respect
c) Significantly better address our creditors with higher settlements

The cost of doing "the right thing"? Possibly 5 to 10 years of a slow re-build. Based upon 140 years of history, credibility, global respect in the footballing community is that really such a price to pay?

Look at what we have...what D&P should have been doing from the outset but that's a completely different post...

1. Murray Park....do we really, really need to keep that? NO! It cost £14M to build....even if we recouped £7M that would be a start. A lot of ordinary people out there are struggling to maintain bills to keep one roof over their head yet we want to keep TWO!

2. I still do not understand how not one single player or employee was made redundant. It is the strangest ever Administration I have ever known! Sell McGregor...Davis...Naismith...Lafferty...Whittaker...and those 5 players alone would generate another £7M based on their release clauses...(not mention saving upwards of £5.5M in annual salaries)

Immediately, you have DOUBLED the CVA pot and this will resonate with Charlie Green - no one has had to put a single penny of their own money into the pot to repay the debts!

It seems too simple...too logical...too ethical...so clearly I must be missing something! However I don't know what I am except realising the duplicity of this whole sorry affair stage managed by D&P and starring Whyte, Murray and Green stinks to high heaven!

The proposed CVA / Newco "rescue" of RFC is embarrassing ...and for me questions how I can ever respect my own club again...so God knows how we expect anyone else to ever respect us!

Just because the Law allows you to effectively run up huge debts and walk away from them without any recourse doesn't mean you HAVE to!

There are legitimate assets within the Club...significantly greater valuation than the £5M nonsense placed upon them by D&P. And I truly wish we would do the right thing and accept things like Murray Park....the star" players....need to be sacrificed to improve our attempts at repaying the debts we are liable for.

We wouldn't repay every penny but it would make me feel lot better that we were at least seen to be trying to give back as much as we possibly can....and NOT be seen to be wanting to keep all our grounds...all our star players...and have the rights to sign new players....in fact, we want it all as if nothing ever happened! That's pretty disgusting....even if it is apparently "just business"....


SPM

Believable14 Unbelievable5

Excellent post mate. It's a pity D@P, Green etc don't share your views. Everyone involved in the administration process seems to be trying to protect RFC at the expense of the creditors. I agree that your major playing assets should have been sold in February allowing D@P to make a decent offer to the creditors, while also going someway to maintain some respect and dignity for your club, instead of appearing to try and get away with as much as possible.
Liah Smit

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At last, someone who is talking a lot of sense. Can I just say one thing, an apology by the club to all the businesses they have let down and who may well be in administration themselves juding by the amount the CVA is offering.That would go a long way to restoring a little of their dignity

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Spot on,everyone seems to forget the honest companies shafted bigtime,whilst listening to the poor us story,kick us whilst were down,

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This is by far the best summing up of the situation I have read so far. Dignity, Respect and club history are far more important for moving forward than most seem to believe. We should pay our debts over the long term and if that means selling some of our assets in the short term, ie players, then so be it. We can then hold our head high in the knowledge that we don't owe anything to anyone and can build a new team to face the challenges of the future.

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07 Jun 2012 13:50:18
Rangers to face Le Havre in pre-season clash.

Le Harve versus Le Harve nots.

Believable5 Unbelievable5

07 Jun 2012 12:47:55
As the Loans under EBTs are discretionary and must be paid back if required Mr Charles Green is going to ask everyone who benefited to repay them (including Campbell Ogilvy, Walter, Ally etc) for the good of Rangers FC and increase the working capital available to the small creditors.

Believable0 Unbelievable6

How do you know McCoist and Smith received EBTs? They weren't mentioned on the BBC documentary...

You are just assuming they received EBTs, are you slightly disappointed that the two men you hoped received EBTs actually didn't?

Assumption is the mother of all bugger-ups bud....

TTG

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And who told you this fairy tale? Cover letters? remember them? stating no payments would be due on EBT payments

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Walter & ally never got them, suggest you check facts before posting

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Sorry but you fail to understand how EBT'S are stuctured. The basics require the donor to make a contribution to a EBT almost certainly non-resident, the donor(Rangers) would obtain tax relief on these payments. It is the trust that makes the loan to the employee either directly or through a sub trust.
It is unlikely the trust deed would permit any funds to be retuned to the donor as this would have endangered the original corporation tax relief which is a primary function of the structure.

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TTG# Your recent flag waving,while commendable,is premature.There were around forty names missing in the BBC EBT documentary.Be honest,do you think smith or mccoist had access to these funds?

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@ 5),

I am pretty sure if McCoist and Smith received EBTs a certain Mark Daly would have taken great pleasure is letting us all know. Either that or the Celtic fans rumour that McCoist and Smith took out a super injuction must be true.....

TTG

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Why would they not have One ?

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07 Jun 2012 11:00:45
Duff and Phelps should be removed for incompetance, the assets of Rangers are worth far more than the 5.2 mill Green has agreed for them if the assets are transfered to him. Surely if the CVA fails, Duff and phelps have a legal responsibilty to get the most from the assets, and creditors like HRMC should seize the assets to be sold on at the highest price to the highest bidder.
eg would be the sale of the 4 highest players even with their clauses that alone brings in over 5 mill, Ibrox and then Murray Park are also worth well in excess of the 5.2 mill Green has offered.
Green is only interested in his own pocket and what he can get as a quick buck, he should also keep his mouth shut as he does not yet own the club, but this constant drivel and bullying and blackmailing of the SFA an SPL is leaving a bad taste in the mouths of the people who could in the end have the destiny of the club in thair hands

Believable7 Unbelievable2

Assets are only as costly as someone is willing to pay
can't see that many queuing up - do you?

bil72

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07 Jun 2012 10:42:56
Just a quick question does anyone actually know when Charles Green consortium will complete the deal?

I was under the impression it would be all done by the 6th of June from what I heard on the radio, but as we are all used to things have gone quiet.

G - Bill Struth Stand

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Think he's waiting to see if the CVA will be agreed on the 12th
PaulRFC

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It was put back until 14th June.

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Even if cva is agreed on 12th June there is then a 28 day cooling off period so its a slow process Painful

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Following 14th June there is a mandatory 28 day cooling off period when the creditors can change their mind. In theory Rangers could exit administration on YES~~ THE 12TH JULY.

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07 Jun 2012 10:33:31
Not so much a rumour but a statement.

I'm fed up with Celtic fans saying we will always have this blemish next to our name, that we will never be respected because of the tax issue.

Us as fans paid money every year, the same money, if not more, than the rest of scottish football.

The fans have absolutley nothing to be ashamed about.

As for the blemish/stigma comments? What do you think when you think Juventus? Italian Champions, certainly not match-fixing scandals.

Believable4 Unbelievable10

Rubbish.Juve still have the stain against there name.Other clubs in Italy will never let them forget it.

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100 years of Scottish football will never erase this stain. Never!

Even as a new company with no history' there will be an indelible stain.

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If the other clubs in Scotland choose not to let Rangers forget this then that is their problem. Could they hate Rangers any more than they do already who knows or cares. Everything in the garden wasn't all rosy anyway even before the 14th Feb so why the big fuss about what the rest of the fans think!

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Have you not sensed the hatred fans of other clubs have for rangers.
It won't matter whatever outcome comes of all of this mess no other fans respected rangers anyway.
Have not heard the words in the song sung at ibrox " no one likes we don't care"

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Will it is fair to say the supporters knew nothing of the cheating and fiddling going on. It is also fair to say rangers football club has cheated and fiddled its way for many years and as such will also carry the stigma of such impertuity. To add to this there is very little remorse from fans and absolutely zilch from the club about the shame you have brought upon the whole of Scottish football. So im afraid unless your team is liquidated and starts again you will forever be known as " the shame"

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06 Jun 2012 18:34:05
ED, check my figures and confirm, if rfc kicked out of spl does that not leave celtc vunerable to the 11 to 1 vote ? then would come to 50/50 split of gate money , so lets say celtic get 50,000 at say average of £30 = £1,500,000 every home game at moment , after vote that would drop to 750,000 over 19 home games = loss of approx 14.5 mll , so u really think cfc are wanting to hammer rfc , not a chance lets see there integraty now

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Desperate straw clutching.If they tried this on Celtic would walk rather than go ahead with it.Worry about your own mess instead of dreaming up nonsense.

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"celtic would walk".....walk where pal.?...thought the poster made a valid comment......celtic and rangers thrive on home gates......why split it wi dundee utd etc....they dont even like us but they luv the money side of us.....notice i said "us"

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And pray tell where would Celtic walk to ?

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07 Jun 2012 02:15:48
Reading through some of the comments from my post yesterday i have to laugh at some who called me an ill informed numbskull. That coming from a rangers fan is priceless. I reckon you have been ill informed for the last 25 year of your clubs wonderful history. Why is it that it is we and us when your successful yet when things are not going well its them. Please make your mind up its either yous or them through good and bad. Not a fan of a club in s p l

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It's upto 25 years now? I thought it was from year 2000? I'm I missing something?

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I think youll find them is the other lot and us are the people. Why you on here if your not an SPL fan anyway? Who do you support? Just asking. CheltBlue

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07 Jun 2012 01:18:33
DUFF & PHELPS

Just recieved my letter of notice regarding the poroposal for a Company Voluntary Arrangment ("CVA") to be held on the 14th of June 2012.

Letter states 85.3% of the share capital of the company intend to vote in favour of the CVA proposal, I will also use my vote to favor the CVA proposal.

My reasoning is that Ranger FC Group Limited ("Group") is only guilty of getting its self into financial difficulty, no different than multiple companys within the UK.

If this had happend down south (within in a football context) very little would provale onther than their existing rules and regulations being applied; however what seems to be the case regarding the SFA (Celtic's puppets & those trying to save their wage packets) will not only damage our historic club but may well bring down other clubs in the future and also potentially damage our national team (I know still hoping our national team may rise to greatness again!!).

It is now time for reflection on what will be will be, I am forever hopfull sense will prevale and Rangers can come through his difficult time enabling thing to get back normal.

Believable11 Unbelievable16

U would need to be off ur nut to take 8 or 9 pence in the pound mate, when the transfer window opens rangers expect to go out n spend money on new players! Money that should be payed to the creditors!

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07 Jun 2012 01:04:22
Guy's

Buy a season ticket, and you get a chance to rename Murray Park.

Ffs man....if i don't laugh, i'm going to start greetin'.

Is this the desperate stage that we have arrived at?

Let's be honest, all of us.

This is another guy with ''nae dough'', we are actually worse than being back to square one.

Oh...and by the way, i think we have been calling 'Murray Park' ..Auchenhowie for a wee while now, nothing wrong with that name.

Green is another one who thinks that we are all a bunch of f****'s.

The frightening thing is though, some fans are that desperate, we might just prove him right.

Believable13 Unbelievable1

To buy something you should see it or have the specific details of the product. In our case we need to know 1. The cost. 2. The out-line of the team and the signing policy. 3. The investment in the club and, if possible, the source. 4. Our league status and the levies against the club. 5. What games it covers.
This, taken with no European football means the cost should be reduced substancially and by what amount, no-one could possibly say.
Auchenhowie training facility should have 'his' name removed as in fact should all record of his stay at Ibrox.

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Trainning ground name can be changed without any money changing hands fans just have to start calling it something else and it will catch on soon enough.

Green could change his name by deed poll and it would cost him less than the price of an old firm away ticket.

He's got a brass neck asking fans to cough up. How much of is own cash and I mean his own cash has he put into the club? I'd be willing to bet the answer is not much if any.

Green should be viewed as a piraha.

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