Rangers Banter Archive February 05 2013

05 Feb 2013 20:10:52
Ally has to go. I love the guy, loved the player, but I make no apology for saying I HATE the manager. Never mind all the media stuff and the "we don't do walking away" stuff, I'm talking football. His philosophy is DIRE. The football, if you can call it that, that we have played this year has been awful to watch 99% of the time. We barely create any clear cut chances in SFL3, with a team of players who could finish in the top 6 of the SPL comfortably imo. Getting relegated to Division 3 gave us the perfect opportunity to blood youngsters and get them playing in front of 45,000+ every fortnight, playing an attractive and new style of football and all round preparing them for being Rangers players at the highest level eventually. It would have given them no excuses and the ones who weren't good enough would fall away as we went on. But this season it has been just the same old garbage. I love Rangers and have barely missed a league game this season, but it is starting to feel like a CHORE to go and watch my team.

Ally should be out in the summer. He should be thanked for his efforts and for standing by the club in it's darkest hour, and he will ALWAYS be a legend for his accomplishments as a player, and to an extent for how good he has been in holding the club together at times as a manager. As for the football, he needs to go out on the high of winning SFL3 this season, before it gets any worse.

Let a new manager come in and stamp his authority, develop his own team once the embargo is lifted, with a solid structure and more expressive style of play to make it a fun, enjoyable and entertaining experience at Ibrox once again.

All things considered, for me there is only one reasonable solution.

Ally McCoist out, Billy Davies in.


SC93

How long has Billy Davies been out of work? Either he's been going for jobs and not getting them or he's not interested in them. If it's the former, chairmen think he's not good enough; if it's the latter, do you think he'd come to Rangers?

Ready to sign for blackpool

Great post and can't argue with anything said in it. Billy Davies would be ideal for job

Billy Davies is a good manager, he took Derby up to the Premier League and left due to the fact he was promised so many millions and never got a fraction of it, despite them earning �£80m+ from promotion via the play-offs. His teams always played good football and he is young with fresh ideas. He could be waiting on the right job coming up. And yes, he would take the Rangers job, he is Rangers daft and it is the ultimate challenge to return the club to it's former glory, so why not? He would do a better job than McCoist anyway, that's a cert!

SC93

Billy Davies is a lush. Last thing we need at Ibrox.

Billy Davies, oh God no!

What has he ever done to even warrant being mentioned for the job.

@3, even the bit were he said the current team could finish top six in the SPL?
Al

This team we have just now, when all are fit and playing to their full potential, would easily finish in the top 6 of the SPL. If you disagree with that, you know nothing about football.

SC93

@8 not with ally in charge

06 Feb 2013 15:36:33
@8 the current rangers squad wouldn't win the first division never mind top six spl, apart from motherwell no other spl team would be worried about taking this lot on at ibrox, even with a full house, the fans expectations far exceed the current squads ability. serious wake-up call for the more delusional following of the third division leaders.

05 Feb 2013 19:37:27
I think that Alexander, MacKay, McLeod, Hutton, Wallace, Little and of course McCulloch would all play well in SPL given proper coaching and tactics. Youngsters Perry, Cole, Hegarty, Crawford and Aird can come on to a game too. But we must dump the likes of Black, Sandaza, Kyle & Cribari. The jury is out on Templeton. I thought he was shocking against Dundee Utd, but then who wasn't! {The Ed039's Note - Ross Perry has been one of the worst players for Rangers this season, Hegarty must replace him as first choice centre back)

Ed not sure about Hegarty. Yes he is better than Perry but he isn't that great very limited and not the answer longterm {The Ed039's Note - Yes but until the beginning of next year we cant do anything about it, we are working with what we have so there is no choice. I actually think he could grow as a player and have liked what I have seen of him so far, but yes he may stay the same and it wouldnt help. But "longterm" doesnt mean anything to us just now with the transfer embargo)

Ed longterm is when we are back in the SPL as we will get their and if the new league construction goes through it may actually help us get back quicker. Agree we can't do anything just now with the embargo but even now we should be building a team for the SPL and don't think Hegarty will be an SPL player {The Ed039's Note - Yes, so right now in Div 3, Hegarty is a first team player and he is someone who has come in and been more impressive than the other players, this is all I am trying to say)

05 Feb 2013 17:56:46
I am one of the guys that have came "back" this season to support the team that I have loved since a boy. and I have been at every Ibrox game this season, but I must admit it has not been enjoyable especially this last month or so. sitting sometimes like being in a quiet graveyard. I had hoped that a fresh start in div 3 and a new board would mean a totally new look to the football that we play, but we seem to be going backwards and watching it is murder. nearly all teams have players that are in form and some so are not in form, but our team seem to have a unique situation where no one is form even our reliable goalie. there is something far wrong there. would I come back next season. well if this management team are still in charge then NO. no doubt there are others in the same boat as me. and that's Charles Greene's big dillema.

God that is painful to read mate and I mean that with the greatest respect. {The Ed039's Note - Agreed)

Loved them from a boy! started coming to see them this season! will not be back next season!. What sort of supporter doe's that make you?
Tam {The Ed039's Note - For once Tam says something sensible lol :-)

@2 Careful ED people will talk. LOL
Tam

It's not all new starting at div3. Murray park is full of the exact same cronies as ever, semi competents. Only change out there was bomber brown. Ibrox is full of same employees. WS, Sandy Jardine, Ally, other non execs, its all the usual suspects. . Nothing new and fresh at all just same old same old.

How many people have came back because the season ticket price is within reach? it's within reach because standards have dropped, so they can't complain because they aren't getting spl standards. support your team ffs. accept where you are, stop looking for people to blame, get Green and Jabba to shut up then eventually other teams will stop laughing at you and go away until you're back challenging them toe to toe on the fitba park!

Foxy (i've had a bad day)

Like the first poster i, ve, came back, and bought 2 season books and 2 shares
�£1. 600k+ went back on my old supporters bus and bought as much merchandice as I could at xmas
to make sure I give rfc as much money as I can. and I agree whole heartedly with the first poster, while I will go again next year. I feel let down by rangers
let down badly and feel i, m being used
as a fan who went every week during the greig era I know what being used is, with not enough people making enough effort for the fans and the people who do make an effort simply not good enough. step forward durrant mcdowell and ally. step forward most of the players

now its not the money
its the betrayal of my trust
i thought that my money could make a difference, as we all did or there would, nt be so many fans at the games
in Rangers and the management team
we are trusting that the know what they are doing with our blue pound
but its just the same as before overpayed under acheivers and still there are jobs for the boys,
i will continue helping Rangers get back to were the belong but there must be top to bottom change
but the football rangers play would get football stopped. Les

05 Feb 2013 16:22:14
So McLeish has left Nottingham Forest. Why doesn't Green grab him for Rangers. He did well at Ibrox at a time when MON had a good Celtic team and still won titles and cups. I think he'd do a good job. {The Ed039's Note - Look guys, I dont see any former managers, staff or players who benefited from EBTs returning to the Ibrox at any point. It would be an absolute PR nightmare)

Fair comment Ed, but we don't know the extent of the EBT situation nor who exactly benefited or not.

You'll find out soon enough mate and I respect Ed 039's frank explanation. whatever the final outcome it would be foolish in the extreme to take a backward step with a view to moving forward.

Ed did not Walter and Ally benefit from EBTs? {The Ed039's Note - No, the BBC produced a list and they were not on it, but nobody has actually come out and asked them to get a definitive answer, but if they had been I am sure it would have come out in the wash)

05 Feb 2013 15:13:41
Can anyone comment exactly who we still have out on loans and when they are due back to the club? we could do with big boca back to sort out the defence!

Didn't think the loans had to be repaid.

What about his wages?

Wages are the big stumbling block. Rangers are struggling just now without paying his full wages. I expect him to leave in the summer

What about his wages?

Wages are the big stumbling block. Rangers are struggling just now without paying his full wages. I expect him to leave in the summer

Is there an echo? {The Ed039's Note - Strange, I will need at ask the tech folk about that one)

05 Feb 2013 10:40:35
HMRC have appealed the court case. What a waste of money. If they win they show the other teams in the country they've won nothing but a battle with no cash reward whilst Rangers move on with their lives with 0 debt and a prospectful future.

Fud, now you know the reason why you and your team are despised by so many, no humility whatsoever.
Tam

Not as easy as you might think. BDO report, when finalised, might cast doubt over the sale. �£5.5m did seem awful low and that's a worry.

Tam I don't see you crying out about hmrc waisting millions more appealing this! what about the schools, hospitals and the police, fire sevices? don't you think it might be better spent on them since the op is quite correct whether you agree or not they won't get a single penny and i'm not gloating as things stand craig sh*te is to blame. mark. {The Ed039's Note - Typical Tam, just ignore it mate. Hypocrisy isnt a word in vocab)

@1, So what do you want us to do then? Just stop supporting our team due to mismanagement at a level where we, the fans had no say in which our club was being run? Is that what you would have done?

Absolutely disgusting opening post, you obviously have no shame whatsoever!

A �£5.5 million bid no one else was prapaired to did, its only worth what someone is willing to pay I guess!

@3 but �£25 million due from rangers would pay for school and hospitals, was rfc who failed to pay millions due. {The Ed039's Note - Nobody is disputing that, what we are asking is how does it benefit the British tax payer to spend more of their money chasing this to get no more money. It must seriously indicate that this scheme has been rife with clubs in England and this case is being used to settle out of court .......... and not damage their names in the papers)

Its the search for the correct judgment! And stop ignoring the fact you all know it was a test case before they were to go after much bigger fish in the Premiership. The original judgment was a major setback for them. When they have this decision overturned at appeal they will again have grounds to go after who they want down south. You know this ed, why pander to the punters on here who are living in denial?

P. s Ed039 my wee nip aside buddy, appreciate the job you do on here and love the site. {The Ed039's Note - Fivers in the post :-)

Ed I think you'll find I posted earlier today outlining why this HMRC case is continuing to run. The precedent this case would set will gather more money from other companies who had EBT's than it will cost to appeal the FTTT decision. Odd that you should choose to not post my original then ask how the appeal benefits the tax player? or maybe you don't agree. if not at least say why {The Ed039's Note - I personally didnt see that post that you are talking about, I am just back on after a long weekend on the lash. It must have had something in it that the other Eds didnt think should be posted)

Fair point Ed039 - but look at it from HRMC side - if �£4 billion has dissappear in 1 year - (ebt schemes real and dodgy) where do they start?

We know rangers tax avoidance (lets call it that) was designed by pornographer not licenced to provide financial advice. sounds pretty good case to go for.

would you not hit the biggest/weakest tax avoidance scheme by a fitba club in UK - as first port of call to hit the football sector and say - pay yur taxes or else.

Also claims up to 4% of outstanding debt was in one club - Rangers/Mih?


So far HRMC spent little (�£1-2 million) - but got FAB publicity, downfall of a business ( that was dodgy and not making profits - so who cares ) - so far looks like HRMC doing very good job.

Sadly MIH made it sooooo easy for them, clearly this will be appealed and go to higher courts and cost HRMC �£4 mill in legal fees - but if they now finding 80% of other clubs coughing up - then HRMC in the red.

HRMC chasing tax evaders, not avoiders - as avoidance is legal, evasion is illegal.

; (

It is worth chasing, as if they can bury a high profile club the others will pay. They have no choice as if they loose with rangers they will get sod all from the rest of the businesses. mark my words rangers will get turned over to prove a point to others

HMRC ate appealing the decision because they want a test case if they win. They can then recoup millions from other companies using the ebt's. not that daft if you ask me.

@3 and ed I was refering to the op's statement of no debt and Rangers move on with their live's as though nothing has happened, what about the tax that was not paid by Mr Whyte would that not have went toward's building a school or hospital. Hypocrisy tell me were I am beinbg hypocritical?
Tam {The Ed039's Note - Jesus Tam, you hand out enough wind ups, can you not take one back?)

@3. hmrc think they can get a judgement on this which will bring and end to these tax dodging schemes. its possibly worth billions and they smell blood. it would benefit
us all if they win.

@13 Oh sorry ed was it a wind up, ok that's fair do's, caught on that one LOL. But why hypocrisy?
Tam {The Ed039's Note - As in you are now justifying HMRC spending millions chasing a claim where they get nothing, but vilify oldco for not paying it, now Tam surely you can see what is wrong in that, but I am the first to admit they are chasing this make an example of Rangers to chase other clubs. This scheme surely has been rife in England and they will benefit alot from winning the case, but they only chose to chase one company to the point of liquidation?)

Ed039 think you will that hmrc chasing several football clubs via cva larks, leeds utd, portsmouth and rfc - so rangers only first in queue to hit liquidation as leeds/pompey were rescued before liquidations.

clearly lots of directors eying ebts, and other financial twists but note government, hrmc and fa's all warning clubs to get house in order or face clamp downs, with so many making no profits on huge turnover this to be expected

financial fair play now big hot issue, once again murray put rfc in the crossfire, deliberately. why no one cares about this and thinks it was fair game?

@15 Don't think they chased Rangers to liquidtion I still blame Charlie for that, think he could have produced a better c. v. a, just my opinion. As far as chasing one company I suppose they had to start somewhere, this is where I have my concern's why a scottish team first ( poll tax spring's to mind ) why not in England where they would possibily achieve a bigger payout.
Tam

No Ed, it was a different tax case against White that put us in liquidation why didn't some of our worthy directors or would be buyers offer to pay that one. Maybe they thought the big tax case was a lost cause otherwise we could have still be playing in top league and Europe. But seems it was everybody else's fault, are we wondering why we don't get much sympathy.
Bobby

05 Feb 2013 10:05:17
Rangers International Football Club's share price this morning was 85p, up 15p from when it was floated at 70p. So nothing disastrous about that? The club was valued at �£45 million when floated on AIM so that value must now be around �£55 million.
People should lay off Green and stop being so suspicious. He is a businessman and only owns about 8% of the club himself.
On the Ally front, I agree with another poster who suggests leave things alone until May. Probably a good idea given that the SFL3 title will be won at a canter with no cups to distract. Then bring in Big Tel in the summer. If he can do what he has done at Inverness on a shoestring he'll sort out the youngsters at Ibrox and weed out the chaff like Black, Sandaza, Kyle, Cribari, et al.
A final word - come on Gazza. You were a Rangers legend and all the Bears are rooting for you.

Lots of words but no point. Lay off Green? I bet you said that about Murray and Whyte. Green has made plenty of claims but how many has been delivered? Shirt sponsor been announced? Kit supplier? You still waiting for the Dallas Cowboys tie in? Green, and to a lesser degree Ashley must be watched.

1) I certainly never said the same about Murray or Whyte. I never trusted Whyte and was right not to do so as things turned out. Just give Green a chance. If he can turn Rangers into a profitable business then that can't be bad.

No real shares being traded, one big buy on day of float, since then drip drip small scale sales. so hard to say true value.

Still at �£40+ million, and therefore more than Celtic. bit odd that - 30% more than them, who play in big league in scotland, getting somewhere in some cups, and also playing in CL with �£22milion + income from that comp alone.

Does that not sound odd. ? 1/2 value of Celtic at present would be fair, so there is �£30 million of extra value at present, that's a lot to lose, given loss in cup, LNS, HRMC appeal,.

Green shares bought at 1p so even if fall to 30p he still loaded. So he can see share price fall long way, and so can most fans who bought them - but investors may flee if price falls too far below 70p

@3 stop talking nonsense, do you know anything about buying and selling shares? if I sell now I will get the real value, 85p or there abouts
no large trades at this time mainly due to lock in deal and there is a cap on the number of shares that can be owned in the company.

JG

JG - why you not selling them. why all talk before floatation that you would buy. ?

Massive profit - these days with bank interest in the 2-3%?

is it too hot in SA?

Green gambling that fans are diehards and won't sell shares.

He makes killing 70+X on any sales.

Quick question - any fans here with shares - have you sold or though of selling?

@5 - I never bought them principally to make money or I would never have bought shares in a football club and also I would have sold at 90p.
I bought them to invest in the club,
having said that I believe they will be worth a lot more than 85p when we get back to the top division and europe then I will need to decide to hold or sell

it is hot here mate but I ain't in SA, I am in sunny Angola

JG

@5 - I never bought them principally to make money or I would never have bought shares in a football club and also I would have sold at 90p.
I bought them to invest in the club,
having said that I believe they will be worth a lot more than 85p when we get back to the top division and europe then I will need to decide to hold or sell

it is hot here mate but I ain't in SA, I am in sunny Angola

JG

05 Feb 2013 08:51:49
Get kevin Thompson back to rangers free contract

Do you want the club to sign him now? You do know that if that happens, he can't play until September?

OP - disagree, never liked him first time round

JG

OP - disagree, never liked him first time round

JG

05 Feb 2013 02:31:30
giving ally his jotters right now isn't the answer. the teams already won the league so a new lad ain't gonny change nuttin. out of all the cups and just a wee league to win means keep him till may and then look for the right replacement in the off season. probably butcher I would say. that's why he didny take the english job. he knows where his breads buttered. ally will survive. just like john greig did. and need I mention billy mcneil. a celtic euro cup winning captain who couldny manage a mcdonalds. end of. deecee

What on earth has Billy McNeil got to do with our situation. Concentrate on our problem and stop bringing other People into it,

McNeill also won a double. With the league won is now the perfect time to change to hit the ground running next season? It will be the same players so a good coach needs time to re-shape the team.

Why keep someone just to get rid of them in the summer? Get rid of him now and get Davies before Forest do. As for the McNeill reference totally irrelevant {The Ed039's Note - I dont think Billy Davies will be going back to Forest, more likely Blackpool. I think Roy Keane might be the man for the Forest job)

Keane he couldn't manage a sweet shop