Rangers Banter Archive May 20 2012

 

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20 May 2012 22:41:22
Seems the report into the 2 contract case has been ready for some time and its only tomorrow the SPL get to see this...very strange!

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And we are waiting?

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20 May 2012 22:10:04
Heard that todays's 1872 walk was
poorly attended less than 600 a third
of places available, do you think that
RFFF should have given the "loyal"
bears directions to Ibrokes? Timalloy

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20 May 2012 20:50:23
batton down the hatches get ready for a bigger fight fellow bears,spl and sfl major plot going on to reconstruct the leagues minus the gers, they are trying to come up with a package that will attract tv money,if we appeal again and keep threaten boycott's they will exclude us from all competition's,to survive we must comply or die,so RST & RA shut the fck up and start helping the process,not hinder it,get behind the club and help us all back to better days,sdm & cw major charges coming they're way.source's solid,i don't usually post unless it's valid,RTWD.

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No plot it's contingency planning.

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Sfl with a tv deal? lol

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If they wanted to screw rangers they would just throw them out. No need to give themselves the massive problem of league reconstruction,they have been trying that for years and can't agree

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20 May 2012 17:44:11
Does anyone know when the 12/13 fixture list is published and when the first league match is?
The CVA proposal is due to be presented to the creditors on 6th June on past performanceD&P may not meet this date. A cooling of period of
30 days kicks in taking us to 6th July.
If the CVA is approved well and good,if not we switch to plan "NEWCO". Mr Green is quoted as saying that raising money to invest in Rangers is easy, he has also said that under
plan "NEWCO" HMRC will get nothing
What happens to the other creditors Ticketus and Caig White? Presumably they would get the same as HMRC - nothing. How likely is it that all the creditors are going to accept this without legal challenge? If Green is merely exploiting a loophole why would HMRC not introduce new regulations?
The point I am making is that if the CVA is not accepted the creditors are not going to shrug their shoulders and walk away. With the new season only 3 or 4 weeks away time will be fast running out.

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Rangers can enter the new season still in administration, and take a 10 point penalty.

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If I was a creditor like ticketus, I would wait for liquidation and buy the property at the ensuing auction. Then rent it back to New rangers. Also rent it to anyone else who wants to. It's not the property itself that has the value but the usage of it. I'm baffled why people think ibrox is worthless. How much would the sec be sold for ? The truth is that green will have to pay a lot more to get his hands on it after liquidation than the 8.5m.

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In reply to 1.) unlikely Rangers can stay in administration if CVA is rejected? 2.) As there is no realistic alternative to playing at Ibrox Newco would be a forced/desperate purchaser. SFA would not rent Hampden as a long term solution to Rangers problems.

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What if somebody else goes after ibrox ? It's looking to me like the newco thing could cost a fortune.

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20 May 2012 13:49:55
Put aside cva's , player embargoes , fines, liquidation , points deduction- the sfa put a player embargo for the way that the club has been ran in recent years , it thought that any other penalty would be too harsh . So what are they going to do if the big tax case goes against us and it is found that we have had an unfair advantage through etb's for nearly 10 years . Is expulsion there only option ?
Depressed.

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The question is was there dual playing contracts, if yes EUFA likely to increase European ban to maybe as much as 5 years. Never mind retribution is at hand as Sandy Jardine will call for a boycott of foreign holidays

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20 May 2012 12:52:02
Chelsea winning European cup is bad for football, would've got football stopped, woeful to watch.

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How? With the money they've spent to achieve it? Or how they play?

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Iwas more disapointed with the way bayern played tried to walk ball into the net and the shooting from a German team of that quality was shocking , and why didnt ribbery take the penaulty, but well done chelsea.

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I take it your referring to their style of play. don't see anyone slating the great italian sides of the past. regardless of messis "anti football" tag......defending is still an aspect of football that if done well should be applauded. Football is a results driven business n if that means sitting in against a superiour team n catching them on the counter to get a result then so be it.
J1985

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Ribery never took a penalty because he was subbed! - pay attention

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Nobody liked the great Italian teams of the past, cattenaccio I presume. It's why Celtic were lauded as heroes and invited to play in Di stefanos testimonial for stuffing them.

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Bit like Rangers on the way to the UEFA cup final!

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Chelsea dug out a goal when needed. Playing in the Allianz woulda been tough. But again chelsea came up with the goods. Well deserved, after knocking out ye holders. If a team don't have a better technical ability like Chelsea did v bayern n barca. Then defensive is the way to go. It's no anti football. It's trying to get a result. Never heard messi saying Chelsea played anti football after the 1st leg
B bear

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20 May 2012 10:03:56
Who here has honestly had enough of all the crap that surrounds RFC, Gers fans as a whole have been punished for the actions of one greedy little liar! Motherwell went into administration and they we're not punished as heavily, so it will be very interesting to see if future clubs(and oh yes a few more slp clubs will go into admin)will receive the same level of punishment. The slp as a hole are a joke, its all about power not what's best for scottish football. Next season has all but been wrapped up before its even kicked off, and before anyone has a pop that's not celtics fault ether. When rangers and celtic got to the uefa cup finals the bigwigs where rubbing there hands with the cash they brought to scottish football. Some people are saying 'celtic don't need rangers' or 'scottish football doesn't need rangers' then let's me tell these people this, without rangers and celtic how lowly ranked would scotland be in the fifa lists,how crap would our national team be without some of the old firm players and that includes players they spent money on developing? The real argument should be do the auld firm need the slp? If rangers can go bust (just like celtic had there troubles them years ago) then they can all go down and what is the slp worth then? Nothing! Rangers deserve punishments that's a fact but I promise you if more clubs end up in a bad position financially will these rules be upheld? No they won't because as proven time and time again the slp is a farce. The only way they will recover any cash from clubs is to fine them heavily but what happens if the clubs can't or won't pay up? They going to kick them out? No chance, they can't afford team after team to have financial troubles! Celtic had there troubles in the past as did motherwell, gretna, dundee, livingston and now rangers. The reason the slp is being so hard on rangers is for one reason- they are scared. They need to frighten the other clubs with harsh penalty's, not because they broke rules and should be punished but because they want to make sure they,er pockets stay lined with our clubs cash. Craig Whyte was a thief make no mistake but the slp are nothing more that rats who are in it for the money.

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Motherwell didn't cheat the taxman by deliberately not paying tax in order to keep club going nor did they sign players they had no intention of paying for and also have the cheek to keep loan players while in admin! If Ebts are proven there will be far worse punishments for rangers and due to all the legalities of everything there might not be a Rangers playing football anywhere in for next season!! It is a sad time for Scottish football and you were right about the rankings rangers increased that with there wins in Europe but what happens again if Ebts are true? Does all of Scottish football get punished?

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When you say "lined with our clubs cash" you must be referring to the money "our club" has stolen from florists, face painters, nurse, doctors and armed forces.

Is that the money you refer to?

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Rangers were docked 10 points for going into administration, the standard penalty agreed by all member clubs. The fine and the transfer embargo are not for going into administration, they are for breaches of the rules; not paying taxes, not paying other clubs money due etc. Don't you read or watch the news?
Al

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20 May 2012 10:03:25
Hopefully a C.V.A will be done, i cant see us getting off this joke embargo punishment,hopefully we can keep the core of the team intact as we cant replace them-for a year- although we should be able to sign bosmans in jan as registration would be for the next season? we will have another hard year ahead of us but lets look it as preperation for the seasons to come, blood some youth find out who is capable, as a club we have to improve our scouting network we should look at this as it will reap benifits for years and years to come and keep transfer costs down! i think our coaching side could be improved bring in some guys with a proven track record in developing talent!
we will have the likes of fleck,the naismith`s and other young players out on loan back-it might not be that bad! in the long term this could be a huge advantage to the club make us a better team on and off the park i just hope right choices are made and this bag of $hite weve seen will never, ever happen again!
STG

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Scouting networks take years and money to develop rangers have neither john flecks unfortunately not going to be the player we all thought Blackpool wanted to send him back as he was so poor. Footballers are gold diggers Naisy Davis Lafferty Whittaker and McGregor will be off in the summer why do you think they all wanted clauses for them to go at cut price? They will keep the fans sweet with all the usual badge kissing and I love rangers I won't leave then a EPL team comes in and it's astella bye byes

Campsie bear

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How many times? Naismith is a goner.

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How is the embargo a joke rangers could have been thrown out the league but instead all they got was a fine and 12 month embargo davie c

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I think the embargo`s a joke, its like telling a company you cant trade, its designed to benifit the spl by keeping us there for money reasons but damage us as much as possible to make us uncompetative theres the joke a bad one, fleck may not be the player we thought he could of been but he`s a player and we will need him- before he went on loan he was showing signs of improvement i remember posts on here questioning us letting him go out on loan! as for the scouting networks yes they take time but we need one now more than ever! players come and go they wanted clauses to safe guard themselves theres nothing wrong with that you would do! if you believe what is said if whyte retained control they could all walk for nowt! there not much gold at ibrox to dig mate,theres not going to be a sale of every first teamer for godsake, one naismith may leave one wont

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@4 The playing field was sloped heavily in favour of Rangers during the season because they were living outwith their means. Had they been paying tax and money owed to other clubs and creditors they would have gone into administration long before Feb14th. They may not have been able to complete the season. The best case scenario would have been that they would have had to offload a load of players in January. Either way, Motherwell would probably have finished in second place and got a bigger prize for doing so.
The transfer embargo goes some way to making up for what has happened this season. By making Rangers less competitive next season, maybe the outcome at the end of next season will be what should have been the case this season. Rangers finished second in the league because the ran the business with other peoples money.
The punishment is not meant to benefit the SPL. Its to punish Rangers and to send out a message that this behavior is not acceptable. It will, however, benefit other SPL teams who have been cheated this season if Sevco FC are in the SPL next season.
What would have been a suitable punishment? I really would like to hear what the likes of you see as a fit and proper punishment for something one step down from match fixing.
Al

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20 May 2012 09:53:58
Nanny McPhee ? Warts an all? You really couldn't make this piss take up......
Green and Whyte will be the end of Rangers I fear.

Just ask Green if it's all his original idea to get involved at Rangers or if he was approached/ contacted, and who made the contact with him? Ellis?

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M8 thats paper talk (nanny mcfee) Iwouldnt believe anything in the papers about Rangers because they are all writting rubbish to sell papers .

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Murray borrows the money.
Whyte shafts the creditors.
Green mops it up and sells it on.
Total scandal.

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20 May 2012 07:49:50
Phone Tap Scandal


This has been doing the rounds for a while. It's Mark Daly fae the BBC doing a 1 hour docu on the Rangers* crisis.

Below is the intro to the up-coming BBC documentary on the 23rd of May.


“As this proud footballing giant stands on the brink of extinction, BBC Scotland Investigates the inside story of the scandal which brought Rangers FC to its knees. This is a programme based on dozens of secret emails, letters and documents which uncover the truth behind the tax scheme which threatens the club’s very existence, andreveals what went on behind the scenes in the run up to Craig Whyte’s infamous takeover. From the day Sir David Murray took up the reigns at Ibrox, through the nine-in-a-row Championship years to the ignominy of owner Craig Whyte’s reign and the plunge into administration, this programme charts the descent from glory into chaos of one of Scotland’s great institutions. Along the way, investigative reporter Mark Daly goes in search of answers to the questions every Scottish football fan is asking, and attempts to confront those who are responsible for the Ibrox club’s plight”

Seems Murray tried to take out an injunction to stop it being shown and the rumour was because Daly planned to present evidence of McCanns phoned being tapped so he could spy on Celtics tranfer dealings etc. As far as I know They were refused the injunction but the phone tapping is nothing more than a rumour.

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Who is the BBC whistleblower? Phone tap only a rumour, that's the worrying bit, every ridiculous rumour seems to come true, this would be worst one yet.

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Evidence.. not good.. 'Daly planned to present evidence'

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There's no such thing as a injunction in Scotland , the very least you can do is use the correct Scottish legal terms.

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I could be wrong, a injuncation served in England is not law in Scotland IE The Ryan Giggs story, don't know how it stands if served in Scotland.

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"The men who sold the GERseys"
Mark Daly in response to question
"Why did this documentary take so long?" replied "These things always take time".
What he really means is, everyone involved gets to see it before it's aired,then get their legal teams to argue what is admissable,slanderous etc. What you generally end up with is a watered down version of the original. I don't expect this one to be any more revealing, than the previously over hyped Alex Thomson version on CH4.
Previously O.B.

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If the phone tapping rumour is correct that has implactions way beyond the spl ,i for one can recall a couple of players one being that lad from dundee forget his name but rangers swooped him from under the celtic and they thought it was the agents trying to play the game too get more money but they swore they didnt, scary if this is proved rangers might as well go out of buisness as celtic fans will never let that go to go in admin one thing but to be proved to be cheats are history will be a joke and looked on as a farse

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It might just be a rumour but if proved or any truth in it WOW what a disgrace on rangers fc the saga at the momment is a very dark cloud but if this has any truth we might as well wheigh the trophy cabnet in as scrap becouse thats what it will be worth ,and i hate to say it but this is not the first time iv heard this SCARY

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20 May 2012 02:38:53
Does anybody know the answer to this question?

I mean know, not make up rubbish, sensible answers please and those of a hooped persuasion need not reply.

How can a CVA be offered and accepted when the true level of debt is not known. Presumably the administrators know the figure of debt at this present moment. I believe
the figure is currently at £50m and they have £8.5m plus £3.8m for Jelavic which will be in the pot. So the creditors will get about 25p in the pound.

That offer will be made at end of week. However what happens with the BTC ? The creditor as I understand it have 2 weeks to decide. They then have 30 days as a cooling off period. What happens if the tax case is decided within this six week period ?

Assuming we have something to pay, could be good could be bad, but whatever it is, the pence in the pound offer will be incorrect to all the creditors as the pot will have further to be spread.

If the tax case is not decided, and assuming the CVA is accepted, what happens then? Do we then find ourselves in huge debt again?

The only way I can see is liquidation, but I hope somebody can give me some answers which will give me hope.
As I said before those hoops fans need not reply because I am sick of the moral high ground being spouted, I have heard it all before and know we (Murray & Whyte) have done wrong,

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If it's a cva then Rangers would agree to pay a bigger % of the cva pot to hmrc if any tax case result went against the club,(example) if no fines were made against the club for use of ebts the Rangers would pay 40-50% of the cva pot to hmrc, if they find against the club then 70-80% will be paid or whatever figure was agreed at the time of the creditors meeting.

Newco or cva hmrc will still get the exact same amount of money the £8.5m that sevco have put into a bank, if hmrc call in the debt sevco will buy all assets of Rangers and the moeny will be paid to creditors, if its a cva then sevco buy the shares and the money is spilt in the same way.

The tax case means nothing now, either way it will be done and dusted in the next few weeks cva means Rangers pay back an agreed amount, or if it's a newco the case will be dropped and money from assets that sevco buy will go to them.

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You got a lot of sick to come mate. Celtic fans will never let up on this. It's right up there with Monty python and fools and horses as comedy gold.
This is British footballs biggest ever scandal and the whole truth will be coming out. Every denial has been proven false. The moral high ground you speak of is actually just everybody else's level. Rangers are the pits that's why you*re looking up.

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You've got to add £25 million approx to that, as there is money owed in the BTC, Rangers are merely disputing the interest and penalties. So it's more like £75 million due. That stretches the pot a wee bit more, any more than that and a CVA looks unsellable. I still believe a pot of say £27 million should be offered at least. As worst case scenario sees approx £135 million owed, allowing for 20p / £.

GoldCoastBhoy

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The full amount of the debt doesn't need to be known at this time. The offer is 8.5m to the creditors to be shared. The higher the debt the less pence for the pound the creditors will get. So without the BTC it might be say 20p in the pound but with it it could be 6p for example.

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Those of a hooped persuasion need not reply?
Are you serious?
Do you honestly think we're gonna sit and say nothing? lol
I think the technical term for the current predicament at The Big Hoose is......"You're fooked!"

Hail Hail
ChrisBhoy

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What if someone of a 'hooped persuasion' did know the answer ? Would it not be better for you if they did tell you ? Philosophically does the source of the 'correct answer' really matter ? Is it better to know, even if it is a from a source from which you'd rather not hear or is it better to live in a cloud of unknowing ? Just a thought !

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@O.P.
Where did you get the £3.8million for Jelavic,being added to the cva pot?
As far as i'm aware, the deal was to be repaid in three instalments.Two which have been made. RFC still owe Rapid Vienna £1.2million.
Previously O.B.

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7. OP here, duffers said last week the CVA pot consisted of £8.5m plus £3.8m for transfer fees in plus any winnings from court cases

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20 May 2012 00:09:30
On the subject of the spl investigation into dual contracts did Dermot desmond not pay for the signings of Keane's {Roy and Robbie} from his own pocket?

As all other Celtic players would have been paid from the clubs bank account what are the legalities of paying players from another source and would that not be a second contract as they are signed by the club but are being paid for by someone else.

I think Celtic fans have opened up a can of worms by demanding action be taken against Rangers, i'm sure we are not the only club in the spl that has ever used legal tax avoidance measures.

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Stop bringing Celtic into everything...your club has cheated big time and are under investigation, if there was anything wrong with Celtic you would have heard somthing but you havnt because they are an actual club runned in the correct way. STOP trying to bring Celtic down to your clubs level, the only can of worms are all the worms within your club.

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FYI.
 {Ed007's Note - Brian Quinn advised CFC not to use EBT's so the club never has. When Juninho signed he was paid by this method, CFC cancelled the EBT and paid all the moneies owed to the authorities in full. The Keanes' and Bellamy's wages being paid by Dermot Desmond is totally different, everything was included in their contract and all taxes etc were paid in full, there was no double contract or hidden payments to these players.}

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What a load of b0ll0x. The details of these players wages were publicised before they signed. Don't you understand anything about what's gone on ?
Do you really imagine someone is going to come along and say 'it was Celtic wot done it'. ?
Celtic have opened a can of worms ?
It's the sfa and UEFA who are dealing with your club.

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@Ed007 If Celtic signed players who were NOT being paid by them directly then surly a second contract would have existed?, how can one set of players be paid by one source and others paid in a different way?, These players were contracted to Celtic but paid by someone else.

Also if Celtic 100% admitted they used Ebts in the wrong way and paid the tax owed on them at a much later date that is cheating to gain an advantage does not matter if the tax is paid years later. They admitted that at the time Juninho played they were wrong, if that's the case Celtic should be stripped of all cups won during WGS era.

As for Celtic not using tax aviodance measures thats not the case, they admit to paying players from image right companies, legal but still tax aviodance. Also the old Celtic football and athetic club company were given tax breaks that the rest of Scottish football never enjoyed as it was registered as a charity and lets not go into attendance figures at Celtic park over the years. {Ed014's Note - Ed007 can't answer on here.Did you read what he said?It doesn't matter that the wages were subsidised by the owner,as long as it was all in the contract and everything paid.There were no double contracts.Rangers fans need to drop this nonsense.Celtic have done nothing wrong regarding paying players.They also never admitted to using EBTs either.Juninho was paid this way when he joined them and Celtic refused to work that way.As for the attendance figures,name me one team that never done that.I can remember sneaking into Ibrox when I was young many years ago.It was normal back then.If you want to be bored to death about this go and ask 007.}

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@4 What has anything to do with WGS it was St Martin of Oneil who signed Juninho

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