Rangers Banter Archive June 01 2012

01 Jun 2012 23:06:22
Rangers need to be punished, all I hear
what are these:
1). 10 point deduction - may have cost
us the league.
2). Banned from Europe for a year -as
usual some tax expert from the Gallowgate
will say that was because we didnt
submit accounts. Well these experts
should know that we went into
admin in Feb and accounts had to be
lodged by March. If you are in admin,
you cannot submit accounts. Therefore
a direct consequence of being in admin.
3). Because of the stupid transfer
window system we could not sell
players, so in order to keep going
we had to ask players to reduce
wages, they get reduced release
clauses. we had no choice so as a
direct consequence of being in
admin. this may cost us £10m in
transfer income.
4). Fined £160k
5) Illegal transfer embargo
6) Threat of expulsion if we break the
illegal transfer embargo.

And yet we deserve more
punishment apparently.

Perhaps sack clothes and ashes or
public flogging will be next.

The song "nobody likes us" has never
rung more true, but guess what I am
getting to the stage where I dont care.

10pts deduction but Rangers were 20 pts behind the winner.What's your logic?

Just remember a certain Mr M coist stated "These 3men could have killed our club"when refering to the tribunal panel,well ally its the 2 men closer to home that have an agenda to do just that&there doin a fine job..step forward whyte puppets D&P!!!!!stevo

Think yourselves lucky to be let off so lightly so far for your clubs corrupt behaviour. If the SFA show any bottle it wont matter that you" dont care " as you will be expelled and no longer exist.......Stevie

On point 2. Not banned from Europe, ineligible to play for not submitting accounts. I guess you are not a tax expert either. Do you not remember D&P press conferences where they were saying that they were doing their utmost to get the accounts submitted in time to allow Rangers to pay in Europe. Admitted, D&P have made errors, but I'm sure they do know a little bit about accounting practice.
Whether admin had happened or not the accounts were never going to be submitted on time as Whyte had no intention of doing so because it would have shown things he didn't want to see the light of day; the Ticketus loan to pay off the debt to the bank, the non payment of PAYE and NI, the money that has mysteriously disappeared, etc, etc.
The inelligibility to play in Europe is of Rangers doing and nothing to do with admin.
Therefor punishment to date-10 points deducted for going into administration and a fine that does not have to be paid for 6 or 12 month (can't remember the details). Is that enough for all the wrong doing to date? I think not.
Al

And it's people like you is the reason no one likes youse now take you're punishment it will hopefully fit ALL the crimes the club has committed and we can get back to talking football.
Bigbr

4). You should really check your facts you cannot submit accounts whilst in admin. so before you sneer and accuse people of not knowing what they are talking about, you should check the facts.

@6: where's the sneering in point #4? If there's any sneering in the posts it's in yours.

@6) Read this and then come back at me if you think you are still correct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17070801

Al

OP. Maybe you should let D&P know that they cannot submit accounts while Rangers are in administration. Here is a report from their 17th Feb press conference stating that they striving to meet the UEFA deadline.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17070801

Better remember not to use you as my financial advisor.
Al

Points one 1,2 and 3 are all to do with yous going into administration..... which is aaaaalll your own fault..... nothing to do with getting picked on

01 Jun 2012 21:41:03
Okay i don't think anyone has a clue what's going on all I am hearing is rangers are cheats ? Why cause they didn't pay there taxes? Well they did pay there taxes which was in there books what they did was find a loop hole which they could lure big money players to Scotland in employee benefit trusts the tax office started to find ways round this loophole so company's would need to pay extra tax and do you think rangers are the only company to do this , just goggle EBT and you will find they where introduced to premier league players in England first tax are trying to won this case against rangers then they'll go after more down south so to call our league titles "tainted" or us cheats then carry away we welcome the chase

The ebt money was not declared in the players contracts. This means they were ineligible to play. Understand yet ?
ed, can you set up a sort If dunces corner for posts like that ?

They all say that we cheated by buying
players that we could not afford. what
they forget how much money did they
all make when their grounds were bursting to see these players. they forget
the increased tv money on the back of these players.

Double contracts means double the penalty now sssshhhhhh be quiet and take the penalties an enjoy. Scottish football can only get better young players getting there chance at Ibrox and other football grounds means no more foreign half rated players in Scottish Football at the detriment of young Scottish players.
Bigbr

EBTs, which have been around since the late 1980s, have been used extensively by high-earning employees – ranging from IT specialists to Premier League footballers.

They are used to minimise the income tax and national insurance charge on remuneration to employees and directors and also generate a claim for corporation tax deductions for payments into the trust.

An EBT is simply a discretionary trust – with “offshore” trustees - designed to act as a “money box” for those high earning employees who do not need immediate access to their full remuneration package. In other words, those who are prepared to defer access to remuneration in the form of bonuses and perhaps share options.

The employer establishes the trust making contributions of an equivalent value to the deferred remuneration and the trustees will – at a later date – distribute the trust funds to employees or ex-employees. The basic idea is that the trustees can distribute the trust fund when it is tax advantageous to do so – perhaps when the employee is retired or non-UK resident.

The ideal is that there is no employee tax charge until the trustees distribute benefits – which may be many years after those benefits have been earned. The tax charge may be theoretical rather than real – the employee or ex-employee may have moved to a ‘low tax jurisdiction’ or ‘tax haven.’

EBTs have many of the characteristics of a pension - without the restrictions that UK pension legislation applies to contribution limits and the nature and timing of benefits. This is not the way they were used that is why HMRC is concerned.
All contracts must be registered with SPL in order for players to be eligible to play, therefore hidden contracts not being declared mean players were ineligible.
Cheated HMRC
Cheated SPL teams
Cheated your own fans.

DB77

@3 so you and mr daley have seen the dual contracts, maybe you'll let us all see one then because mr daley sure hasn't

When people say not paying taxes they can also be refering to the holding back of PAYE and NIC..... That is a fact and correct me if i am wrong but this is the law to pay them.

01 Jun 2012 19:43:58
i feel that the sooner the people on the "dark side" realise that the mess rangers fc are in is not the doing or the responsibility of charlie green...all he is doing is trying to stabilise a sunken ship and continue with as much credibility as deemed possible.....the damage done to oor great club was done by others ...end of.....its not the fans , the players or anyone elses fault ...so lets move on with the 1% of dignity left and win the league again which will take us on another CL journey that will gradualy bring accolades back to scottish football.....the dark side may well be looking for another manager soon if lennon takes up any offers....the times they are a changing....thank the gods....deecee {Ed039's Note - Deecee I think Craig Whyte with any diginity that was left mate, and anything else he could get his hands on)

I don't think Darth Vadar, the Emperor and all the stormtroopers are that interested, to be honest ;)

Get one thing straight Green's allegiance is to money/his backers not Glasgow Rangers. Meeting a friend on Tuesday who has season ticket at Bramall Lane might be interesting?

And why on earth would that be interesting. Looking for some muck to rake are we. Geeee!

~3 Whenever anyone puts in a bid for Rangers they don the mantle reserved for only the purest of beings. Remember the adulation of CW? The many who criticised him and warned Rangers fans were shouted down as being closet Tims. Would it not have saved you a lot of grief if you had listened to Cassandra? White did not even have a record that had a dodgy football connection. All right! Don't listen to the many voices of doom coming from Sheffield.

Green is the sweeper. He just appears like magic.

Awwwww, bring accolades back to Scottish football, very decent, very noble. Is this the same Scottish football some Rangers fans have boycotted sponsors of? The same Scottish football whose agreement you spurned when Ally demanded the name of the panel? The same Scottish football whose clubs on a week to week basis find any criticism of Rangers finds them threatened with a fan boycott? The same Scottish football whose rules you have broke for years? The same Scottish football who you have taken to the brink by going to court? The same Scottish football you took over three months to get documents to? The same Scottish football whose clubs you have failed to pay in a timely fashion? Yes those accolades we can do without, thankyou very much!

01 Jun 2012 18:01:33
Anyone else seen the new Stewart Regan twitter pic going around ? Regan has only favourited 7 tweets, one of them was recently from a celtic supporter stating they would happily see Mculloch hung. Surely if Hugh Dallas was sacked for an internal email, the same must be done to Regan for favouriting a post about a player being killed. He has deleted it now, but there have been plenty of screenshots of it.

Surely even celtic supporters must agree this is unacceptable. If he had done the same advocating a tweet saying he would happily see Lennon hung there would be an uproar.

Twitter and photos can be easily faked and photoshopped though

As a celtic fan I think Regan shouldn't be anywhere a t**tter account

Well lets find out if faked or not it easily done lets hear what regan thinks on the matter

A bad week for Regan ends with a curious explanation.

On the 1st of June he was forced to explain why he had favourited a tweet wherein a mentalist had suggested Scotland international and RFC player Lee McCulloch should be 'hung'.

But instead he has claimed that he kept it for future reference because of its content and likelihood of it falling foul of new government legislation.

Okay, but here's where we run into some problems:

1. It was tweeted in January and thus pre-dates the implementation of the new legislation by a couple of months.
2. It's the only one he has saved, in the course of a calendar year, despite his claim to do similar 'often'.

Has he reported it to the police? Or to Rangers?

Conclusion are we now to draw?

If so, why is said offensive Twitter account still active and why haven't we heard a peep about the complaint?

Rangers have to ask Regan, officially, what he is up to.

The position of the SFA Chief Executive is surely now untenable.

01 Jun 2012 16:54:31
Guys am I missing something here?

The SFA have said on several occasions that the panel that decided on the embargo and fine were an independant body filled with legal people, yes or no?

We took the matter to court who ruled that the embargo was not legal.

The judge referred it back to the appeal tribunal, the same body that made the decision in the first place.

SFA have said they will not appeal that decision.

Therefore if all is true, we have not taken the SFA to court, we have questioned the validity of a decision made by the panel who the SFA claim to be independant. Even after the decision SFA stated their surprise that the judge ruled in the manner he did, because it was a panel filled with legal minded people. As far as I am aware the SFA does not contain hoardes of legal minded people.

As I say I might be missing something here, but it seems one minute we have taken the SFA to court, and the next minute the SFA are calling them independant.

Clearly if they are independant then UEFA have nothing to do with this.

UEFA probably still have something to say because they would expect the SFA to deal with it inhouse, which appears they failed to do.

You're clearly mistaken and confused and I'm not going to bother to put you right. I'll leave you to wallow in ignorance.

2)Enlighten me please or are you just another expert from the east end?

The panel made a recommendation. The sfa enacted it. Rangers took the sfa to court. Another One for the dunces corner ed.

Think the SFA and the panel are the dunces, maybe they should check their own rule book, as the judge described the sanction as unlawful.

01 Jun 2012 16:26:43
Imagine the most corrupt governing body in the world not wanting them or the country's associations being taken to court. Surprise, surprise.

However it appears to me that the UEFA involvement is nothing more than blackmail, either we ignore the ruling on transfer embargoes despite the fact that it is the correct decision in the eyes of the law, or we find ourselves
in trouble.

It is time Blatter, Taylor and all those with pocket full of bribes end up in court. Maybe we should have sent somebody over with a brown envelope.

Pathetic when the ruling body does not know their own rules.

Here's an idea: if UEFA or FIFA do get involved and Rangers don't like it, why doesn't the club take them to court.

#1 With their income they could apply for legal aid.

@2 the fans will pay again we will not be kicked unfairly again european court of human rights here we come the spl may commence before next may but i doubt it

01 Jun 2012 14:37:40
Can anyone clarify players wage
situation. I know that they all took
a 75% cut to get them through to
the end of the season. But I'm sure
that the wording from D+P at the
time was that they all agreed to
defer wages till 1st June, which
means in my book that the defered
wages are now payable in full.
Hope someone can set the records
straight!!

Good point. D&P seem to have an ulterior motives me tinks,Lets hope they all get investigated .A shambolic administration i don't think they are qualified , are they not just debt managent credentials please..

The wages were not deferred they were given up.

01 Jun 2012 12:40:11
Football's governing body, Fifa, has confirmed to BBC Scotland it has been in contact with the Scottish FA regarding Rangers.
A spokesperson said letters and phone calls have been exchanged, and that its legal teams will continue to talk and look further into the situation.
The Ibrox club had a 12-month transfer embargo imposed by the SFA overturned by the Court of Session.
However, football rules bar clubs using civil courts over football decisions.
Fifa has already intimated its unhappiness with Rangers taking their dispute with the SFA to a civil court.

Why should FIFA be above the law,even convicted murderers have rights,thats all we are asking for,we are being punished over and over for the same crime,we know who the guilty parties are but they are the ones who are not being punished its the ones who paid all their dues upo front who are now suffering,does anyone think thats fair,I know I dont,,why are the culprits not being investigated,,anyone know?or is it the usual money thing

@1) You seem to forget that Whyte was punished, he just chose not to accept the ruling.
Al

#1 In football FIFA and EUFA are the supreme courts. An analogy you mght find distasteful but its like a religeous orgainsation. How the Church of England, or the Catholic Church , or the Church of Scotland runs their affairs is left to them. They rule on all things within their remit. Parliament does not tell the church whether or not they can have women bishops. It is the same sort of thing with football. EUFA (who are at the top o the pyramid of power in Europe)have a witten contract with all the associations who in turn have contracts with the clubs. Including Rangers who agreed to the rules. You ether abide by the rules of a club or - to continue my previous analogy - you leave. Go and form your own league.

01 Jun 2012 11:39:15
Hearing we'll be tossed out of playing in the Scottish cup next season as they dont havbe the bottle to put us out of the game !!

The Airport bear

They maybe don't, but UEFA does.
Don

That's the thing..... UFEA

Tbh the spl just tried to play the safey card impose a 12 month ban that overall would have gave rangers a year to get a bit of money on the door & then gives youth a chance might not win the league but least it's just 1 year rather than going newco & waiting 3 years(minimum) to get back in to SPL. So on the out side it looks like they are hammering them when really there not.reading what the Swiss fa done to Sion (36 point deduction) plus put Basel out of the last 16 & barred the nation team from playing at cups too.

Banning them from the Scottish cup will just get UFEA even more annoyed. Think they really need to de mote them to at least div 1 & give them a ban on Europe for 2 years. Personally newco or not I want rangers in the spl as no OF would just be boring let's be honest ? But if the spl bottle it (just like all the chairmen have done so far) then they will be war. UFEA will just ban Celtic/hearts/Dundee utd/Motherwell from europe for next season which will then fall at the SFA doors & at ibrox

Rangers had a also on the wrist that would have helped then aswell get money in the door but naw that wasn't good enough.

Lenny

Being thrown out the cup is not a punishment as theoretically you could be knocked out in your first match anyway. expulsion is the only real option

01 Jun 2012 09:55:00
The newspapers saying the SFA have two sanctions left. Banned from Scottish cup and expelled from the game. I'm very very fearfully because banned from the cup is very weak, one year transfer ban is 10 times more serious and effective. But now they have to hit us harder not lighter. What do people think?
Also SFA have now officially told FIFA who are looking at the situation.
How can the SFA hit us lighter?

The Record stopped short of the full facts again, there are other options available one being to increase the 160k fine

JG
JG

To be banned from the cup is nothing.That'll just make other fans even more furious with us and it isn't really fair.We need to be seen to pay for the state we've gotten into,for our sake,now and in the future.No one will ever forget this part of our history I'm afraid.

Think Simon got a 25 points deduction? We could get the same plus cup ban.

And who'll pay the increased fine?The creditors as will be taken from 'the pot'.More shame.Money isn't the answer---sanctions were the right answer

To be honest 'other fans' could not be any more angry if they were to suddenly burst into flames. We have had nothing but bad feeling and a stinking attitude from all the other clubs and their fans since 14th Feb. Maybe even before then. So don't give me any guff about how the 'other fans' are feeling as we are well aware.

Increase the fine you having a laugh ..col

Non OF fans would be delighted if we were banned from both domestic cup competitions as it increases there chances.

#1 And what would be the point of that ? RFC(IA) don't have any money and can't pay any fine.

#7 None OF fans that I know (from other websites) want you suspended just from the cups Some would settle for suspension from all football for at least a season but these are in the minority. Most are calling for your outright expulsion from Scottish Fotball. They relish not having you and your perpetual claims that your two gates a year save them from obliion. You re right that the OF stick together. Only the Celtic fans want you to survive.

01 Jun 2012 02:05:26
Here we go, expecting some interesting replies on this one.

We have had penalties applied by HMRC for non payment of NI and PAYE.
We have been fined and had a transfer embargo (or not) for bringing the game into disrepute, because we did not pay NI and PAYE.
We went into administration because we didn't pay
NI and PAYE, whether didn't, or couldn't, or CW chose not to.
We were docked 10 points which effectively ended our season.
We are barred from Europe for at least a year, potentially costing the club millions because we went into administration, because we didn't pay NI or PAYE.

And yet there are people who keep saying we deserve to be punished for not paying NI and PAYE, I am sorry how many tines do we need to be punished for one offence?

We got or are getting fined by HMRC for EBTs.
We sre going to get punished by SPL for EBTs
We are going to get punished by SFA for EBTs.

How many times do we need to be punished for one thing ?

When did SFA and SPL become enforcers for HMRC?

What business is it of SFA and SPL whether we pay our bills, that is the problem of HMRC. They are the ones that deal with monies due to them. If I don't pay NI and PAYE for my employees, HMRC will come after me, they don't go to my trade association for them to get involved.

We are always told by HMRC that we must be treated like any other business, well we are not being treated like any other business.

Now before the replies start saying we owe other clubs money the rule in England is that football creditors get paid first, in Scotland that is not the case. Football creditors are treated the same as any other creditor, so we couldn't have paid them without paying everybody and we can't do that if we could we wouldn't be in administration.

However I honestly believe that those Scottish clubs affected should take a good look at the amount of money they have made off Rangers & Celtic, but as we are in the spotlight, I will use Rangers as the example. For years we have been overcharged for players that we sign from them. Because the Scottish teams don't want players playing against them that might come back and bite them the fees are inflated. But my biggest gripe is that we pay, as fans, £7-£10 dearer per ticket than the average club. We may take 5000 fans to the smaller grounds, well that is £35k to £50k more than a similar small clubs fans pay. And of course we take 5000 fans and the other small clubs may take 500 fans at a push.so the amount we contribute to other clubs is massive.

These clubs seem to think that because of EBTs that we were paying for players that we could not afford. That may be true but what they forget is the 2000 extra bums on seats that the received to see these players.

In business companies are run differently that's why some are successful some not, some companies have no fears of borrowing huge amounts of money and live on the edge, some businesses are run with little or no borrowing . There is no right or wrong way, there are numerous companies that are successful by both methods.
If Rangers owner chose the way he did, and the bank were happy to back them then we could afford them, or could at least pay for them. As it happens Murray chose his way and that has backfired big time. It happens up and down the country evety day of the week. Is it nice for creditors, of course not.

So what now ?

1. The CVA should be accepted
2. We should agree with SFA that we can only sign free transfers until clubs paid back that we owe.
3 we should let the SFA save face and accept a Scottish Cup ban, gets SFA off the hook and UEFA off our backs.
4. There should be a closure of this, a finishing, closure. The slate should be wiped clean, no more , an amnesty.
5. We will apologise for all the misdemeanours of our previous owners and promise we won't do it again.
6. We should move on for the good of Rangers and Scottish football.


Do I believe this?
No, but I just want to take my grandson to his first game, the way I did with my son, and the way my grandfather and father did with me.
Next to family, good friends and my business, they are the most important thing in my life.
I am actually mortified by what has happened, I find it abhor ant, I detest the thought of my club not doing things the right way, I am disgusted by the owners, Murray & Whyte. They should remember the people that lost their lifes supporting this club. They should be keeping each other company in the Bar-l.
I want my club back!

Good post mate. I just want to get back to football and supporting our team. CheltBlue

Brilliant post mate 150% agree

bil72

Excellently put brother bear, pity a few more were not more like you.BLUNTRU72 LLRFC

Bared fron europe for not poducing acounts
should accept scottish cup ban? accept what is given you cannot pick your own punishment and if scottish cup ban cva process has to start again because cva sent out was for 3 competitions
slate will not be wiped clan as going into admin will always count against rangers if they go into admin again i.e after big tax case as cva was asked to be accepted as debt was only 55 mil
i want my club back haha the rest of scottish football want the chance to win trophies with a fair playing feild back.

dinwar

What about playing with ineligible players? Dont you get that bit ?

Op here, there is always one, number 4 who as usual cares only to read the bits that suits him.
Perhaps you should read the end paragraph again.