Rangers Banter Archive April 01 2011

 

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01 Apr 2011 23:16:34
"Too many
folk on hear at the wind up - deal should go through , however not until Monday , the deal is stalling on the liability for the hmrc outcome , however I will point out that this lies totally with the Murray group as this is the way it was paid to the accounts not from rangers but from Murray group - fact"

If it's so clear and such proven fact, what is causing it to stall. With all your inside information you've failed to tell us the most crucial point.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 23:18:51
"Rangers have made a statement to the stock exchange to deny that Alistair Johnston said they could go bust. I thought the BBC was supposed to report news not come up with sensationalists stories. Having said that they are one of the worst for sport news.

GovanFR"

Was also reported by STV News, that they personally witnessed this being said.

Are you saying both the BBC and STV have come out with exactly the same lie at exactly the same time. Don't think so. Look closer to home in the form of Mr Johnson as the one who is lying.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

01 Apr 2011 22:49:45
BlueS2
has anyone from rangers fc been handed an invite to the royal wedding?if not. . why not?cake anyone?

Tongue in cheek old chap, nice retort though :D

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 22:34:53
For anyone wondering about the tax situation. As it stand Rangers are a part of Murray International Holdings who are being investigated for paying staff in remuneration funds. IF Craig Whyte buys the club then MIH remain liable for the tax investigation as that is one of Whytes condition for the takeover so essentially we we need this takeover to go through.

Believable0 Unbelievable3

01 Apr 2011 21:43:07
Fellow gers fans,

I've just had a look on the rangers media site, the amount that rangers stated is the gross debt, this 29 million figure is gross which doesn't include money that rangers are stilll owed. After reading through the figures the debt comes to around 19 million. The press as usual are making it out to be more than stated. Mr whyte has been looking over the books for weeks now , taking his time. As i'm sure we all would. If the debt was really that bad as 29 million why would a self made venture capitilist millionaire even bother wasting his time. As for Ellis i just think he's a cling on who wants to be important. I'm pretty confident the deal will go through. Ibrox probably needs spruced up a bit but i'm sure Mr Whyte will know this. I'm sure if we were rangers fans with the sort of money he has we wouldt'nt think twice about rescueing our beloved club. He will always have something to fall back on with his other buisness ventures.

SERGI80

Believable0 Unbelievable2

01 Apr 2011 20:19:47
To the person that wrote Breaking News. You don't know whats happening or are you craig white? Rangers will be here for a long time to come and to all the celtic fans out, what would you do without the old firm games and all the banter good or bad you would miss it.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

01 Apr 2011 20:10:48
What's everyone's opinion on Whyte and Ellis? From their lack of communication to us fans, I'm beginning to get sceptical about them. There is NO information about him on the Internet nor has there been anything worth reading about him in the newspapers. Ellis is a guy I can't begin trusting, as he went in to buy Rangers in sight of the land around Ibrox. That is not someone who has Rangers best interest at heart. And for someone (Whyte) to even trust him to have 25% stake of Murray's shares sounds just as bad as him.

I understand that the club is in a lot of trouble from HMRC and Loan debts but I would rather see us, the fans, by the club off of Murray, until we can find an ideal buyer.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 19:25:07
The guy that posted the takerover is falling through.

Mate whyte has had these figures for weeks. I doubt murry would move from his original position because the reported 6 million offered is a great offer. Murry wants to get shot of the club and has for the last 3 years. I think he would sell for a quid if he was offered that.
If it does collapse I will b because of the tax liability issue.

C-bear85

Believable2 Unbelievable1

01 Apr 2011 18:30:26
Just reported on Sky Sports News that Alastair Johnston has revealed that the decision on the takeover will be concluded within the next 48hrs. Then it is reported that he claims that if Rangers lose their "battle" against HRMC, then the club aren't in a position to pay the tax bill and will go out of business.

Why would Craig Whyte plough in 30 million to buy Rangers, only for the Club to go out of business over a tax bill. It was previously reported that Sir David Murray would take the "hit" for the tax bill but Alastair Johnston's revelation indicates that is not the case. Based on these reports, I can't see any way that Craig Whyte would even consider buying Rangers.

Ed, You got any idea what is going on. {Ed001's Note - clearly they would know what was happening or they wouldn't have got this far along in the takeover.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 15:50:03
I'd like to see us go for barry bannan and grant hanley. 2 excellent scotland players who would thrive in spl and get into europe further enhancing their international careers. chances ed? {Ed001's Note - probably little as there is EPL interest in both.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 16:09:28
Hi ed any idea what andrew ellis has to do with this takeover as whyte seems to be doing talking on his own? {Ed001's Note - he is an investor.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 16:17:10
BlueS2
has anyone from rangers fc been handed an invite to the royal wedding?if not. . why not?cake anyone?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 16:17:19
Alistair Johnston has said that Rangers will need most of the money Craig Whyte is proposing this Summer and that £25 million over 5 seasons doesn't mean a flat rate of £5 million per season. Most likely they will spend a lot this Summer to build a new squad.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 16:25:31
Alistair Johnston's Admission
01/ 04/ 2011 by rangerstaxcase 29 Comments

Rangers' Chairman Alistair Johnston has effectively admitted that no one else is responsible for paying Rangers' tax bill and that the dispute is of a scale that Rangers could not pay it.

This should put an end to the comforting myth that someone else, Sir David Murray, 'the bank', Rangers' tax advisor would be responsible for paying an amount which could be as high as £60m.

Finally a journalist does his job and asks a probing question. More should try it. Anyone know the who asked those questions? He deserves some applause.

Filed under Uncategorized

Rangers Interims
01/ 04/ 2011 by rangerstaxcase 1 Comment

Rangers interim results have been pulled apart on 100 message boards this morning. So I will stick to the high level stuff.

Basically, Rangers directors are taking a 'might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb' approach to the major dispute with HMRC. They have even thrown in a cheeky wee provision for another matter to try to signal their confidence in the main event over their use of EBTs. It is the corporate equivalent of some emaciated waif flailing his arms and yelling "'mon then!" when confronted and over matched. It is going to be an interesting summer.

What is surprising is that despite wails about bank enforced cuts, Rangers' operational management does not appear to know that times are supposed to be tough. Rangers are still spending like a sailor on shore leave. One wonders if any board members have learned the lessons of Murray's lunatic extravagance of the early part of the last decade, or whether only bank enforced borrowing limits are keeping a lid on mismanagement. These results should have been much better.

Rangers have gotten through another accounting window without leveling with shareholders or their fans on the gravity of the situation facing them. With over 90% of Rangers' shares being owned by MIH or directors, they probably realize that there are no shareholders with large enough stakes who are not fully implicated so the stakes are low.
It is supporter anger that will erupt if HMRC take a scalp in the tax case. Rangers supporters will be justified in feeling misled and exploited.

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Yet another 24 hours
01/ 04/ 2011 by rangerstaxcase 15 Comments

Nick Nolte and Eddie Murphy might be forgiven for thinking that they have a another sequel coming up if they were to have the misfortune to stumble upon any form of Scottish sports media today. The rumours are flying fast and thick and the 'Comments' feature of this blog seems to have become a dumping ground for a lot of them. Keep them coming. Even the ones I cannot post are at least very entertaining. Best of all are the guesses at my identity. I have had everything from Graham Speirs to Phil MacGiollabhain.

Anyway, what to make of today's high tension non-event? I have tried to develop theories that would explain all of the data, and the only scenarios that do this would look like the plot of a John Grisham novel. However, in a decade that started with Enron & Arthur Andersen and saw the creative fiction of the mortgage-backed securities industry near its end, it would be difficult to dismiss even the most elaborate of Machiavellian schemes as possibilities in the on-going Rangers takeover saga.

On the other hand, if Occam's Rasor is at work, the simplest explanation with the fewest leaps of faith will be the most likely to be true. The simplest explanation for what we have seen is that Whyte and Murray are simply a couple of barrow boys who think they can pull a fast one on the other, but are both enjoying the benefits of publicity and distraction that come from drawing this process out. Ignoring the hyperbole of the "leaks" to the media pack's dimmer bulbs, this hypothesis says that they will have deferred detailed agreement on the thorniest issues until last- both hoping to have momentum bounce the other in to necessary concessions. The thorniest issues remain: price for MIH's shares and the tax bill.

There is simply no getting over the fact that it would require a complete idiot to pay more than a pound for all of Rangers' shares just now. However, Sir David Murray's track record in separating fools and money does go back a long way. Anyone who could get Joe Lewis to throw away £40m for 20% of any SPL club would feel confident in his ability to get the better end of any negotiation. If he can get anyone to hand over several £m for MIH's shares, it would be a great piece of brinksmanship. However, if all that is on the table is a token, the old steel trader will probably want to take a chance on a better than expected outcome from the tax tribunal. In the meantime, the negotiations circus will provide a nice distraction.

Less is known about Craig Whyte. Much less. However, the record indicates that he is a trier. He may have picked up the scent of a motivated seller and might feel that with time ticking down, that he can secure control of Rangers' shares for a nominal sum. He would feel that time is on his side and that this builds the pressure on the seller to take any deal. If he can acquire the shares for next to nothing, he has bought a an out-of-the-money call-option on the tax case. If Rangers lose, nothing much is lost. If Rangers win, he just made a huge return. In the meantime, the negotiations circus provides some very favourable publicity.

At some point in this tale, after achieving agreement on countless red-herrings (and the bank debt may have been one of them), they have to agree on the matters of substance: a price for the shares and responsibility for the tax bill. If they have just deferred the details on these topics, reports of imminent deals will have been far off the mark. To expect Whyte to part with substantial cash for the shares and to accept the tax bill risk would be to take him for a fool. To expect Murray to hand over the shares for a pound and to give a water-tight, cash-backed, guarantee on a £60m potential tax liability would be to expect him to be more panicked than perhaps he is.

On balance, this narrative is the simplest explanation for everything we have heard. That the negotiations are nowhere near as advanced as the feverish announcements from Scottish 'churnalists' would have us believe and that the immovable object must meet the irresistible force: each one hoping that the other blinks and a bargain is had.
I revert back to the business fundamentals of this predicament and say that any deal to sell Rangers before the tax case is resolved requires at least one fool or an elaborate deception. It just does not make sense otherwise.

Filed under General

SFA have Rangers' Interim Report
31/ 03/ 2011 by rangerstaxcase 33 Comments

According to Phil MacGiollabhain's blog (www.philmacgiollabhain.com), the SFA have confirmed that they have received Rangers interim report. We don't know if it is complete, signed off, or meets all of the SFA requirements, but they have passed over a hurdle that would have prevented the SFA from issuing Rangers with a UEFA license to play in European competitions next season.

The events surrounding the alleged takeover and failure to release the interim results by today at 5pm makes this situation take on an increasingly surreal appearance. Whatever is going on within Ibrox as we speak can only be explained by some extremely unusual occurences. The interim results normally have no bearing on any takeover- the buyer will presumably already know all of the contents of such a report in a friendly takeover. It makes me wonder if Grant Thornton are wanting to apply a 'going concern warning' to the report. Could the fakeover all be an elaborate charade to convince Grant Thornton that the tax risk had been underwritten by a third party and therefore did not constitute a risk any longer?

Who knows, but for sure the events of recent days will only be explained by a story that will read like a Jeffrey Archer novel.

This extract from the PLUS Market regulations makes clear that Rangers were required to release the Interim Results today.

47 An issuer must release financial information in accordance with the following timetable:
(a) interim results in respect of the first half of each financial year (beginning with the six month period following the end of the last period for which audited accounts have been published on admission) must be announced as soon as possible and in any event not later than three months after the end of the relevant period;
Source: PLUS Market Rules for "Quote" companies:
PLUS Market Rules for Quoted Issuers
Rangers operate a 1 July to 30 June financial year. So the half year ends on 31 Dec. Three months to the day after 31 December is today, 31 March.
So the interim report is no longer "delayed" or "later than normal". They are officially "late".

Filed under Uncategorized

Rangers: fakeover or takeover?
30/ 03/ 2011 by rangerstaxcase 70 Comments

Today's SKY Sports reports that Lloyds have cleared the way for Craig Whyte to complete his takeover of Rangers is interesting.

As others have noted, is this finally the Messiah or is it yet another round of PR headgames?

When it comes to media manipulation and Rangers FC it is hard to be too extreme. We have seen decades of Sir David Murray's spin-machine at work. Now that it is about serious issues, we have seen some incredible stuff in the media.

So what is it? Fakeover or takeover? I have seen nothing that indicates that Craig Whyte has the wealth necessary to conclude such a deal with or without the taxcase. (I have looked). A trail of shell companies with a very poor track record of compliance with Companies House filing requirements and transactions that never seem to be much more than a few hundred thousand pounds. Let us not forget that he was recently taken to court over a measly £80k for building materials. (Odd that I did not find any companies in his portfolio that resold building materials. Anyone know the outcome of this case?)
But let us just suspend disbelief and go with the idea that Whyte does have some money. I would question the sanity of anyone who was willing to meet the stated price for Rangers. So I refuse to believe the story as it has been spun, a £33m purchase that would clear the debt and give MIH a nice consolation prize. Even if sold for a much lower price or just given away, that is not the end of the issue.

For Rangers' problems to go away, he needs to have deep enough pockets to be able to pay off the tax bill. Stories that someone else will guarantee this are incredible. Any guarantee that does not include £60m in cash going into escrow is not worth the paper it is written on. For when HMRC call, they will not care for pieces of paper and promises. If not paid on time, it will still be Rangers FC who are forced into administration. It could take a couple of years for Rangers' new owner to force a guarantor to pay up. His shares in his company would be long gone by then. Whyte's legal recourse would be to take the guarantor to court. If that guarantor is Sir David Murray, I would advise caution. Companies House records show that Sir David has been moving at least some of his assets into offshore trusts.

The guarantee of a man who may not have any or many assets in his own name is not worth much at all.

Believable4 Unbelievable3

01 Apr 2011 16:05:14
30 mill in debt what plante are u on mate, where are u plucking these numbers from the debt has been dramatically reduced to arround the 20 mill mark, the figures would be even better had we played more home games as the turnover is down by around 3 mill, seriously ed's yous must love all the whoppers that people come out with must be a laugh a minute

Its all over Sky sports news.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 16:11:42
According to the website rangersmedia.co.uk the clubs debt stands at 19m, however the bbc are reporting that it stands at 29m. Can anyone clarify which website is correct?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 15:27:46
With a likely 5 mil in the kitty for nxt season I would xpect to c more optmisim from the gers support. I'd like to see realistic wish lists for ally for the summer. any suggestions. where do u think we need to strengthen>>

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 14:59:37
30 mill in debt what plante are u on mate, where are u plucking these numbers from the debt has been dramatically reduced to arround the 20 mill mark, the figures would be even better had we played more home games as the turnover is down by around 3 mill, seriously ed's yous must love all the whoppers that people come out with must be a laugh a minute

Believable1 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 14:56:31
End of year figures should show a reduced debt of around £22M however I am gravely concerned about the tax issues after the recent statements made by Alastair Johnstone. We can only hope her majesty shows us as much affection as we show her, it would be sadly ironic to be put out of business by someone we covet so much.

Keep believing bears

BlueS2

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 13:46:06
Sky sports news is reporting club may go out of business over tax bill. What is going on people

Gersman

Believable4 Unbelievable1

01 Apr 2011 13:38:03
According to the website rangersmedia.co.uk rangers debt has decreased to 19m. Can anyone please explain why other websites are saying the debt has increased to 29m.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 10:53:30
Rangers debt rises to almost £29million. ALl week we were expected to see debt reduced to £21million. Hi Ed, what implications or any will this have in takeover. {Ed002's Note - My understanding is that overall the figures were encouraging - but I have not tried to get in to any details at all.}

Re: The figures do not include £12m from euro tv revenue that doenst get handed out til the comp is over for both champ league and europa. On the statement its also shows that (£4m i think) has been put aside for "tax liabilties" i think can't remember as i was looking at them first thing this morning and was more than bleary eyed! it says on the report £29m but this will be realistically around £17m debt down from £21m which would add upp due to reasonable succes in europe and a lower wage bill.

GTID

Believable2 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 11:03:19
In response to


Rangers debt increases to around £30 million. Whats does this mean for the takeover? Ed what do you think? Do you think it'll still happen?


Not to worry, whyte has spent months looking into the due diligence, this includes rangers current financial situation! So he would be aware exactly what rangers debt would be sitting at weeks ago!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 11:09:09
So much for it going down to 21m. Papers talk a lot of rubbish. I wonder if these figures will affect the takeover. Hope not.

Billyboy1!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 11:21:31
Lets not get worried Craig Whyte knows about the debt he would have seen the figures before we have. This won't affect the takeover one bit. The figures are actually positive we made a profit.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 12:15:31
Rangers debt increases to around £30 million. Whats does this mean for the takeover? Ed what do you think? Do you think it'll still happen?

The net debt stands at around 18.5m. Newspapers do not know how to add up, they are just looking to make up unture headlines. The way all the accounts are taking shape and the money is getting moved around it is making it easier for the takeover to be concluded hopefully. Sources the scotsman and rangers media.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 10:19:59
Rangers debt rises to almost £29million. ALl week we were expected to see debt reduced to £21million. Hi Ed, what implications or any will this have in takeover. {Ed002's Note - My understanding is that overall the figures were encouraging - but I have not tried to get in to any details at all.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 10:29:29
Deary deary me. Increase in debt; season ticket sales down; takeover still not complete; tax case still ongoing; it's all the banks fault. Happy April fools day.

I just can't get enough!

Believable5 Unbelievable1

01 Apr 2011 09:07:39
How the hell can the debt increase, is this some kind of stupid April Fools joke?? {Ed002's Note - Debt increases by interest normally.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

01 Apr 2011 10:08:06
Bartley may return next season but has played his last game for ragers this season out for 3 months so isaway back to arsenal for treatment.
even if the takeover goes through mccoist won't buy diouf although hes does want to buy forster.
he will have to sell 1 first team member and he wants it to be mccgregor as he rates alexander and see we have the most cover in that position.
hes happy that all charges are gonna be dropped against goodwillie(also dundee utd are confident that's why they just gave him a new contract) so he is willing to pay the 2 million buy out clause in his new contact as he rates him one of the best young strikers in europe if they can't raise the funds for him he is also highly keen on adam rooney.
reliable source paul jackson the rangers doctor is my uncle.and before you start no mccoist didn't come telling him what his plans were but when your that close to all the coaching and backroom staff you do hear things

Re: Sorry mate have to question this wen u band goodwillie as "one of the best young strikers in europe", he ust aint . . yes he has potential . . a little but not loads. Put it this way I'd still put Jela and Naismith ahead of him in my line up every day. I have been watching him all season as we have been linked fairly strongly with him and he doesn't really impress me. Sure he is decent but i havent seen enough to warrant the hype

Believable1 Unbelievable1

 
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