Rangers Banter Archive November 19 2012

19 Nov 2012 22:21:04
Mo Edu left Rangers for Stoke (no hard feelings we got a transfer fee for him) to save his international career. Similarly Ness went to Stoke, Fleck to Coventry. Edu has come on as a substitute in one game and is rarely in match squads. Ness has played one competitive game and guess what got injured. Fleck played initially but now doesn't. Steven Davis (the worst ever Rangers captain) is a bit part player for Southampton. Is this the might Davis that thought he was a superstar? What a come down, not good enough to hold down a place in a relegation fighting team. So the point, was it worthwhile for Edu and Ness particularly to leave Rangers? Discuss. {The Ed039's Note - Steven Davis has started 9 of Southamptons 12 league games this season)

What a load of b'llocks, Davis was a good player for rangers, and left for the good of his career, you cant blame him, as for the others, ness, fleck, edu, very overated and didnt play many games in scotland, so your point is cr@p.

All that bitterness is going to swallow you up!

You could have included Wylde 0 apps for bolton,
kerkar 1 app charlton,
whittaker 1 app norwich,

JG

Let me rephrase your question, was it worthwhile for Edu & Ness to not transfer over to newco in the 4th tier of Scotland and instead move to the best league in the world, triple wages and be involved at the highest standard? Very few aspiring professionals would turn down a top tier team or even second tier english club to play away to Elgin and Berwick. Alexander & Elbows are in their twilight and just enjoying playing, Wallace is a strange one, he could have went to a Cardiff type team.

G93

Davis is a regular for Southampton. He's not set the league on fire granted but as always puts in a shift. Never gonna get into double figures goals wise which was a problem for him at rangers too.

Charles Green was glad to see the back of them and couldn't afford them. You know, we've got the wages down from £35m to £7m a year, living within our means story?
Can't bad mouth them for leaving and applaud Green for reducing wages at the same time.

Kerkars made 12 app in the championship this season

-6- liquidation meant that it was out of Green's control!

Time to move on is it not.All these players did a job for the GERS.

What this tells you is that these so called players who were plastic superstars up here are really poor. i used to listen to the media and the rangers supporters praising the likes of davis and had to laugh at an extremley average player getting such praise.
but i would go on

remember during saint walters second term all these players were for sale and no interest in our pretend superstar players.

mcgregor - most overrated reserve ever. no interest from anywere had to go to turkey for a job.

whittaker- my god the might of norwich for our muti talented right/left back

weir - was just a complete joke that he played for us for so long not a chance would he have got so long at any other club shows how poor our football is that he was in the team so long.

dailly- smith should have been sacked for signing him alone

bougherra- yes he was outstanding thats why hes at Man U....what where dubai oh right.

papac- very average player thats it.

broadfoot- not even good enough for 3rd division in scotland enough said.

maurice edu- yes he was great as his showing in the premiership is proving.

steve davis- where to start media darling for some reason poor poor player and captain even the snooker player is better. shows how some fans can be easily fooled by telling them someones good they will believe it.

lee mcculloch- wonderful loyal player aye right the 15000 a week helps with the loyalty though. never rangers class

fleck - perfect example of media building up a player who is nowhere near level they think hes at.

weiss- mini me who by putting on a rangers shirt in the stands somehow made him good on the pitch.

naismith- kid with far too much to say for himself and thinks he a great player when hes not. getting found out in england and would never have got a move to everton if jelavic hadnt been there and moyes wasnt a scot.

kenny miller - again a joke player who was here for umpteen season and scored nothing and then has one good season and the fans forgive everything should never have came back but for smiths stubbornness.

kyle lafferty- well what can you say about this boy waste of money, poor character and very poor player. not a nice man.

el hadji doeugh- walter should hide his head in shame. player should never been near ibrox embarrasssing.

Aluko on fire at hull banging in the goals

They were good enough to win title after title

Post 10 holds a few good points, aluko was rangers best player l.weiss was a ok player bit post 10 is bang on wears a rangers top and that's him.

Jig,as a tic fan i have him praise up to yesterday. Spoke to a few rangers mates and they admit he's done the team a Turn but he's properly one of the higher paid players at the club but div 3/2 is his level now due to ages

Lenny

19 Nov 2012 19:29:31
The problem with Scottish football - too many teams, too few spectators. For a country with 5m people to have forty plus teams is unsustainable. So radical change is required. I have no doubt this will be unpopular with the few hundred fans that follow the smaller teams.

Aberdeen, Montrose, ICT, Peterhead, Arbroath, Elgin, Ross County.
Sell all grounds except for Pittodrie. Pull all the money
together, sell the players not required (not much I know), called North Scotland.

Dundee United, Dundee - Tayside

Brechin, Forfar, St Johnstone. Same deal - Perthshire

Hearts, Hibs, Livingston - Edinburgh & District

St. Mirren, Partick, Clyde, Morton, QP, Dumbarton - strathclyde

Cowdenbeath, raith rovers, Dunfermline, east fife - Fife

Celtic

Rangers

QOS, Annan, Berwick - borders

Killie, Ayr - Ayrshire

Stirling Albion, East Stirling, Albion, - Stirling

Motherwell, Airdrie, Hamilton, - Lanarkshire


Please excuse my geography but think that you get the point. 12 teams with a reserve league.

I know the problem is that those clubs in same area tend to be rivals and that the thought of joining forces with your rivals is difficult to swallow. But we need radical reform and I think this is the answer. It may take a generation to start supporting regional teams but it may be worth the pain. {The Ed039's Note - I understand what you are saying but it isnt practical for a country with a population of 5million to have a footballing league with a capacity to put out only 132 players each week)

I was thinking something similar but would never happen. Too much historical rivalry for that sort of thing to happen.

Although I do not totally agree with this post, it is more progressive than the crap being uttered by Doncaster today.
The Ed is correct in saying we do need more than 12 and certain marriages are impossible, e.g. Hearts/Hibs and Dundee/Dundee Utd, but the basics should not be ignored.
And to all the septics, out there, if Scottish football is on a good footing, why is everyone calling for change.

@2: you ruined a decent post with 'septics'. Shame.

Why should all these teams lose there history? Most of these teams have fans who don't miss a match, what about a rangers/Celtic team? If you think hearts and hibs should merge then so should rangers and semtic. {The Ed039's Note - Its a terrible idea, some teams yes should probably merge, it would make some footballing and financial sense, but I mean lower down the spectrum)

@2. That was quite correct. Tom English bangs on about Scottish football is not feeling th ill efects of no Rangers. Although some crowds may be up but the loss of revenue at thes clubs is unfortunatly down as selic and Rangers were geting ripped off with entry charges. Would you pay in to the cinema to watch a sub standard film. The very reason why fans are not paying to watch a sub standard product.

People call for change because they want better.
Sometimes better isn't possible. A pun of mince is a pun of mince irrespective of how you cut it one poster wrote. He's right, change the numbers of clubs in each league doesn't increase gates or revenue or quality of football.
On the positive side our league football attracts good international footballers above similar sized countries. And it draws in more money than those countries. We should actually be like an Ireland, Israel or Denmark.
At National level, we have the talent and clearly just need a manager.

Completely SPOT ON, Do not totally agree with all your combinations but delighted to hear someone talking sense, it is complete nonsense to think that with our population the number of teams can ever be successful, current number of teams is absurd.

Aberdeen, Montrose, ICT, Peterhead, Arbroath, Elgin, Ross County, are hardly the same area, but understand where your coming from could reduce to possibly 3 or4 teams.

This post was first muted on the Celtic forum some weeks ago.
You cannot force clubs to amalgamate.
Market forces, good or bad management, quality of football and hence numbers of supporters will decide who survives and who goes under.
Survival of the fittest. Capitalism at its best.
What I disagree with is money being taken from well run successful clubs to artificially prop up failing clubs.

6) is correct. Our attendances and turnover for the game in Scotland are higher than the leagues in countries with 5 million people. We therefore can attract and pay internationalists.
Problem is we think we're a France, Germany, Spain, Italy, England,....... Which is really silly and impossible. This frustrates us and we want better when we should be more happy with our lot.

20 Nov 2012 01:09:39
Not a chance! Killie and ayr?! Dundee and Dundee utd?! There is no way these teams would amalgamate. Just like ranger and celtic never would.

I wouldn't mind being Denmark tey are consistently quality and beat Germany to win Euro Champs Tournament... 5m population ..Greece only 11m and even Holland only 16m BUT WAY OUT OF OUR STANDARD OF FOOTBALL, ..... coaching at youth the answer not population, look at Germany and England same population but Germany miles better record.... george {Ed001's Note - Uruguay has a population of less than 3 and a half million.....}

It's a popular myth that its 'survival of the fittest' in economic theory its not the strongest or the most intelligent that survive but the one most adaptive to change....Kodak and Rangers are now good examples. If Scottish football really wants to survive then it needs to dump this idea that its too big or too steeped in history to fail. Deep rooted changes across the sport is needed from clubs amalgamating to supporters stopping disagreeing with comments of good luck to sandy jardine!

This isn't the worst idea in the world, but surely the problem there is that "Glory Hunters" will still want to travel to support the old firm rather than their local team. Isn't this part of the reason why attendances are so low?

You need to go back to school pal and learn your geography mate, Brechin, Forfar, St Johnstone Perthshire? The Brechin and Forfar folk would have to drive south through Dundee to get to Perth! Merging teams is not the soloution, its coaching and living within our means as clubs that is needed, coaching the kids to pass the ball and control it etc rather than lumping it up the park, will take a generation but would be worth it.

19 Nov 2012 18:14:17
Who thinks that Scottish football should be restructured to a top league of 16 to play each other 1 home and 1 away with 2 leagues of 20 for 1st and 2nd divs and bring in the likes of the highland league and junior/amature teams and also have the possibility of promotion to the 3rd div via playoffs and have 2 automatically up and down from each div with the 3rd relegation/promotion place decided by playoffs and this would also allow for a winter break in the top div and ease pressure and create free weekends and more space for cup relays and abandoned/canceled games and scrap the SFL, SPL & SFA and switch to a new governing body called the Scottish football federation and have them run the whole lot as this is what I have thought for years now.

Not me. Next.

And jam pack the SFF with ex rangers guys to run the whole game? Sounds great.

19 Nov 2012 16:03:15
what does everyone think of the spl and sfl recontruction plans the sfl plan gets my vote the spl have messed up on various ocasions regarding our overall scottish game they or the sfl should not be able to decide it should be a independent commitee set up who decide what to do with our game because the sfl and spl will never agree so the decision should be tain out there hands if not we will still be stuck like this for the next ten years we need action not talk the spl split is a joke means teams with more points can finish below teams with less point time for serious change {The Ed039's Note - Thats one big sentence mate)

Dont think you or your club get a vote for the next three year when you become a full member {The Ed039's Note - Rangers get a vote as an SFL club, any recontruction plans then need an 11-1 vote to be passed, so Rangers will get a vote through the SFL but nothing can happen unless the SFL approve)

Both plans appear to be a land-grab on the other's territory. However let's try and look at this dispassionately.

SPL idea - 12+12, splitting to 8+8+8. (SFL presumably one division of 18)
Bad -
keeps SPL and SFL as separate bodies;
24th team hardly "premier" standard;
SPL1 might turn out to be exactly the same teams from one season to the next;
Finishing 4th in SPL2 at the split could see you promoted.
Good -
Home and away matches fairly split unlike current SPL setup;
Eventually gets back to 4 old firm derbies;
Finishing 9th could see you relegated if your game has badly slipped as the season progresses;

SFL idea - 16+10+18
Good -
single league governing body;
Decent teams will always stay in top division;
Bad -
Odd way to split 42/44 teams;
Naming needs to be looked at;

I'd like to combine the best of both. Why not have one league structure of (say) 48 teams, splitting into 6 league of 8 rather than 24 splitting into 3?
I'd also like to see automatic promotion/relegation from non-league. There really is little difference between SFL3 and the divisions below it. Promoted teams usually do very well.

Ed no new club in sfl get a vote for 3 year their not seen as full members {The Ed039's Note - So how did all 30 member clubs vote unanimously on the proposals, did Ross County still get a vote? I am not debating what you said but just what I have read)

3. The transfer of the existing SFA membership share from oldco to newco (instead of applying for a new one which would have seen us having to join at junior level) would circumvent that probably. Don't know for sure, just a thought, but makes sense to me. Someone must know (and be able to provide a credible source whilst they are at it!!) as it is not a new thing to have happened. Did Airdrie, Clyde or Livingston receive voting rights straight away when they rejoined the SFL, for example?

Brian {The Ed039's Note - Honestly, it doesnt really matter, I dont think reconstruction of the Scottish game is up for debate, it has to happen, and has been needing it for some time. And I dont just mean the senior leagues, alot has been going on at grass roots and amateur level, but not enough. Henry McLeish published his finding long enough ago but very little has been done to implement his findings)

To be honest ed i had to think about that one again after i posted ... i know new clubs enter as associates for first 4 year and cant vote but the sfa awarded full membership so am not sure if that meant full membership of sfl too {The Ed039's Note - This is why we need one governing body in Scottish Football, everything is far too complicated and when you think you have the answer to one issue you immediately think, oh no thats the SPL not the SFL and vice versa. Also having read back the thread, on reply number 1 it is meant to say that an 11-1 approving vote must be cast by the SPL and not the SFL to be passed. I also think I just made my own point)

Heres a snippet from longmuirs statement "The member clubs of The Scottish Football League have today voted to willingly accept The Rangers Football Club as an associate member of The Scottish Football League.

"Furthermore, The Scottish Football League's only acceptable position will be to place Rangers F.C. into the Third Division of the Irn-Bru Scottish Football League from the start of this season, 2012/13....

I ment to add to my post no 6 ... if that is still the case rangers as associate member dont have a vote on anything untill 4 year {The Ed039's Note - Then how did 30 member SFL clubs manager to vote in favour of the change? Who is the 30th club and how did they get a vote?)

Ed ... as still members oldco was entitled to a vote green represented oldco on behalf of the administrators oldco didnt withdraw untill after the vote ... however you could argue that by awarding associated membership the sfl didnt recognise newco as the same club as oldco and seen them as a new club but i think the sfa awarded full membership so i dont know if that effected their position in the sfl as full members or not, it could have been a temp award until oldco handed back their licence {The Ed039's Note - I meant regarding league reconstruction only last week)

Apologies ed

19 Nov 2012 15:44:29
so thats it now that the wages will be capped at 33 per cent of turnover rangers will never be a top club again then. if we cant pay top wages= no top players = no european football to speak of = deadwater of scottish football. playing useless kids who are nowhere near rangers class and playing 40 and 42 year old veterans whos days have long past.
so the best ever time to be a rangers fan has passed. mediocrety and being top in scottish footballs backwater is all we have now.
still at least we have sir silver of the fox mr amazing walter smith eh.

At least green has explained who he and the investors plan to make money, but paying players less...

.. is there any great club on just 33% for thier players????

Man what a total sado you must be and what a totally pathetic post. So wait there would you rather rangers spent a Sh,t load on foreign players who only come for the money and fail at the only thing they were brought in for to succeed in Europe then the club would end up back in the sh,t within a decade or bring homegrown players through selling the good ones on at a profit. Therefore the club makes money every year we can develop better youth facilities not have to pay millions a year in taxes and debt payments. Yes the players we had in the nineties were superb but that's where our troubles began those days are long gone get used to it and just be glad you still have a team to support {The Ed039's Note - Great post)

We have not got any good youth players to sell though {The Ed039's Note - OK, dont think that is strictly true)

If you love your club , you should be happy for them to be playing anywhere, jerseys for goalposts etc , all the avarice and chasing pipe dreams is what go you in the @hit ninth first place

With that wage cap we will still have the biggest wage bill in the 3rd division, 2nd division and 1st division. Remember OP we are only in the 3rd division and won't be in the SPL for another few years, so we need not overspend on wages any further. Once we are back in the SPL you will prob find Greene will be offski and we have a new owner who might lift the wage cap or increase slightly. For the time being though your just goin to have to accept what is in place!!

TTG

EBTs saving £94.4m and huge loans from Bank of Scotland bought us the previous wins and great experiences of being rangers supporters.
Without these two things going forward, we can never ever afford the Gazzas, Laudrups ever again. So yeah the best years have passed and actually highly likely the honours from those years will be removed. {The Ed039's Note - I dont know where you got EBTs saved £94.4m from. This is the amount being claimed from HMRC which includes a considerable amout being claimed in interest and penalties)

@6 Even as a Celtic fan I have to say that post is wildly inaccurate.

G93

19 Nov 2012 13:43:51
Was diacussing the share offer with my daughter .I paid for her season ticket to Ibrox but am not inclined to buy the shares on flotation as I think they are monetarilly worthless and an emotional investment . What would have value to me are the 22 million preference shares held by the original investors , who should double their money when the company is floated on AIM. Some of these people may wish for a sharp exit with their profit and I think it is these shares that the fans should be looking to buy . If they could band together and raise £3 million, they could purchase , say , 10% and have a tangible presence on the main board. We know Ally has 1 million and may be amenable to sell to a properly constituted fans' grouping(or maybe not) possibly even without realising his profit .Wonder what your thought are on this,Ed, or what any of your east end cousins' guidence would be .

Paddy Malarkey

According to Bill McMurdo -

'It is my understanding that institutional investor interest for the Rangers IPO has far exceeded club expectations.

In fact, Rangers are anticipating that the share issue will be over-subscribed, a positive thing in today's gloomy economy.'

SO if true, Bears wanting shares might be disappointed? Who gets first dibs? Institutinal investors?

Typical fan that thinks he should be handed shares for nothing ... if you wanted to go down that road then why did you not raise 5 million and buy the club in the first place instead of leaving it to someone else to do the hard work then think he will pass it over for nothing if you want them by them if not go take your daughter to macdonalds

@3
I wouldn't want the shares, even if they were free .I support the Mighty Jags but my daughter must have been dropped on her head when younger and supports your lot. All I am suggesting is that fans attempt to buy the shares that count ,that have voting rights and dividends(if any) rather those which can best be described as an emotional investment. Organise and try to buy the shares currently held by the original investors , some of whom may wish to cash in their 100% profit when the shares are listed.

Paddy Malarkey {The Ed039's Note - PM, I think any fan investing in the majority of clubs throughout the world are doing so through and emotional attachment as there are very few clubs who would be able to demand a return on the investment, and the ordinary fan can not afford the number of shares to have a say)

I agree, Ed , just saying that if they are going to band together to buy shares as a syndicate, far better to unite and buy the shares that count.

Paddy Malarkey {The Ed039's Note - Thats a no brainer, no arguments here on that)

19 Nov 2012 08:59:50
BDO have challenged Charles Green and his Sevco consortium to prove that the purchase of Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion car park was given "adequate consideration".

And so the unravelling commences!

Source?

Rubbish, that question would be aimed at the Administrators not the purchaser.

In any event BDO have only been in place a couple of weeks so early days.

I would have thought the onus was on BDO to prove otherwise. So disagree.

BARNEY BEAR

The Goverment's Insolvency Service Investigators are also looking into the asset sale. How can £80m of Assets be sold for £1.5m when Creditors are due £160m and have first shout on the assets?

White brought the salesmen D&P to sell off assets.
White brought Charles Green to D&P to buy assets.
Enough said.

Not this horse poop again. The company and its assests are only worth what someone was willing to pay!!! Fact. I didn't see anyone else offering to stump up the millions you're quoting , now give it a break. We have moved on, the club is trading again and we are on a stable foot now

"I would have thought the onus was on BDO to prove otherwise".... where did you make that up from...

law clearly states the buyer (GREEN!!) has to prove he paids fair-market value!

Not that BDO, sellers or anyone else, the buyers!! Why else do they want to sell/float before this sale is undone ???

Barney just google "gratuitous alienation" and rangers....

rangers fans have to self educate, or they will get scammed,,,, again!

Timmy still clutching at straws and want to see Rangers shut down. Servco is now shut so why your servco poop has no relavence to RFC. away back to Lego Land.

@6: after all the sh1t thats happend over the last couple of years, id suggest not burying your head in the sand, and accept Green & his croonies could be another bunch of conmen.
Slagging every team in the country and telling lie after lie is enough to be concerned.