Rangers Banter Archive August 18 2013

18 Aug 2013 21:09:42
The up coming EGM!

Fellow fans I am not a financial expert or boardroom director, so can anyone guide us through this up coming event?

When will it be held

How much voting rights are needed to call the meeting?

Can the club veto the meeting and what criteria does it need to do this?

And more importantly if the meeting does go ahead will this allow the removal of Mather, Stockbridge and the rest of the scallywags?

I am sure there will be many more question but considering this could be the most important thing to happen to rangers since we came back from the dead! We should be hopeful that the changes that are needed will happen and then we can move on and try and get the club back to some form of normality.

19 Aug 2013 08:12:26
Wish I could share your optimism OP. I'm afraid if any scallywags get ejected itwill only be to replace them with more scallywags. Who's the honest injun in the wings? I ain't heard of any. don't say mccoll, he's made it clear he's not investing more but that's exactly what we need, big time.

OP a quick search would have answered all your questions so not sure why you posting them on here but basically;

The directors must convene an EGM within 21 days of the date of requisition, and the meeting must be held within two months.

A member or several members of a company, who together hold not less than 10% of the paid up share capital with voting rights in the company can requisition the directors of the company to call an EGM. To do so, they deposit a signed requisition at the company's registered office, stating the purpose of the EGM.

If the directors do not do so, the requisitions or any of them representing over half the voting rights of the requisitions may themselves convene a meeting which must be held within three months of the date of deposit of the requisition.

Regarding your last question, the shareholders will decide, but by my reckoning there will not be enough shareholders to carry the resolution

Remember that an EGM is a very different meeting from an AGM and the agenda is specific

JG

Easdale's share purchases last week all but guaranteed the result of this.

Gaz

JG it isn't up to you what gets posted on here (thank God) so the OP is quite entitled to ask any questions he wants. It's clowns lie you that waste this site for people with your high and mighty attitude. On here you are just the same as everyone else, stop acting like a plank

UddyBear!

Gaz do explain how easdale, s 1 million shares can guarantee the result when there are another 66 million shares out there, you really don't have a grasp on the basics of a plc company

JG

JG He already owns shares, so I wasn't talking just about his 1.2m are such. The board has 28% according to Green. The fans just under 12% as far as I'm aware. That is all we know definitely, the rest is about garnering support for either side. Hence the London trips last week. Your implying I have no grasp, let's test yours, can all fans votes be proxied, are they proxied? If not how much of that 11-12% will vote? The boards 28% will that's for sure.

I was presuming both the big share purchases of the past week or so were hardening support for the board, however tonight Tom English said Laxey say they will vote with the fans, that is huge for McColl.

Given that Laxey was an investor attracted by the board in the first place it was speculated last week that they were voting with the board, every percentage point on the boards side is a prisoner McColl etc can't afford to lose. But English's comment changes this and it will be much closer now, so thanks to a development after I wrote my earlier piece things have changed but if the bulk of institutional investors remain with the board then McColl can't win, Laxey shows they can and might switch over though.

Gaz

Gaz what I can tell you is my votes have not been proxied, there has been no contact from anyone, my small % on its own is insignificant but I did think that McColl and co would have been looking for the fans 8% to help them

JG

18 Aug 2013 17:06:36
Sometimes you read something in here (rumour or banter page) and you just can't fathom it out, in itself it makes no sense whatsoever. But as of today and a second golden snippet of info this whole thing is making sense. And I have to say it is pure genius. I'm not revealing it right now and as you know I'm opinionated and forthright but I promise you within minutes of the EGM, if it actually takes place, then I'll give you my full interpretation of it. In short you have about four weeks to save your club from a lifetime of misery.

Now don't go moaning, the two relevant articles are there for all to see, tieing them together is the clever part, get searching guys the clock is ticking.

Gaz

Do these " relevant articles " have inverted comas Gaz? as in articles quoted from a credible, reliable and truthful source.

Gaz don't tease!! Give us something to get us excited about!

And the two articles would be where exactly? More BS if you ask me. there's always an if wi you Gaz!

Oh gaz your such a tease, another rumour/opinion the very thing you were shouting from the rooftops about yesterday, do us all a favour. fill in the blanks yourself

Look I'll be the first to admit this is beyond wild speculation as it stands and if nothing else all I do is regurgitate quotes and figures but as I've said in here about most of the past few years, none of it makes sense. This makes sense.

@1) A very valid question. The thing I read today is factual, didn't believe it till I read it elsewhere in a newspaper (and a good one at that). The second thing is the speculation but you know what, it makes everything that bit more explainable, all the madness we have read of for months. They are either utterly insane or remarkably clever.

@2) It is killing me lol but for once we (non Rangers fans) are not dragging you to the well, this one you have to work out for yourselves.

@3) If never ties you down to a certain standpoint, it appreciates things can change, "if spending doesn't halt or if the club doesn't get new investment" etc etc. it takes onboard that there are two ways for this to be done. I always try and put myself in the position of the other viewpoint, appreciating all the caveats and possibilities, that requires "if's" sometimes.

Both articles are in here and are still on the top pages, no need to raid the American Congressional Library.

They are insane if they have went this far down the road and haven't thought of it, alternatively they are geniuses if it was the game plan from day one. That's all I'm prepared to say. Anyone spots it names the two articles and comes to the same conclusion as me, I promise you I'll confirm it is my thoughts also.

Gaz

I take it gaz that you think that Rangers are being run to fail all along and there only here for the land ect ect. why else would Ally be in charge, why else would there be very little cut backs, why else the abject failure in the board room. yes it does look like its being run to fail no doubt about that
a manager who through his total lack of skills got us pumped out of cup after cup
a board set-up made in hell
and a business plan that had no down sizing
yip its deliberate no doubt in my mind
sad to say from a man who bought shares

SDM gets a heid case to do the dirty
then some scavengers can feed on what's left. they have no intension what so ever of making a go of it
they all call for more fan involvement
fans, fans, fans then hand them over a husk an empty shell that can't be run
because the fans don't own the stadium ect ect ect
you would think the fans let down SDM with a failed share issue or something

I take it gaz it was the stay at these lodges an hour down the road that brings it al into focus Christ do they realy need to get shot of the money that quickly paying of players? when your skint?
if you needed to get shot of our season book money how more quickly could they do it
Ally. are you in on this?

Absolutely bang on Les. For others if you are still justifying expenditure in footballing terms I'm not interested, this is for folk already thinking this is unsustainable.

Murray said for every fiver Celtic spend blah blah blah. Right now every £4 earned sees £7 go out (£20m to £35m). To any sane cash investor this has F*** O** written all over it.

Do you think King would have gave Rangers £20m had he known Murray wasn't putting in the cash and it was Bank of Scotland dough all along? Same here, no one will invest while that board still writes the cheques.

The total top heaviness of the club (7 out to 4 in) is so unwieldy that it is sure to fall without further investment.

The IPO was required as it filled the £20m hole Bill Miller described but it is all about getting to year two unscathed.

Again, if you don't buy into the cash ebbing out suggestion, stop reading. Everyone with a brain sees the cash is dwindling and then this weekend's priceless revelation happened.

A trip to Stranraer with a stay over at the Turnberry Hotel, some reports have it as two days by the way. TO STRANRAER, NOT STRASBOURG! The whole travelling squad when the club is skint?? It is beyond comprehension under the circumstances. It's been like Brewster's Millions let's face it.

I often wondered about Mather, a shrewd as they come operator, fessing up about £10m but it got the message out, we're heading for skint, sugar daddy's welcome (but no one will).

And then with admin but weeks away, investment comes, the ground, carpark, Murray park are sold and leased back. (There are flaws in that thread in the rumour page but the overall story is dynamite and I accept it is a story but WTF else explains this?)

And the buyers? The original investors, Mather, Stockbridge, Green etc for the suggested price of £14.4m. It keeps Rangers afloat, what heroes eh?

Smith has described the board as dysfunctional, they have went out of their way to be dysfunctional, why?

They are guaranteed cash in perpetuity or after a lump sum sale. At that point it doesn't matter if Rangers are in the same league as Cowdenbeath or Celtic the club still owes the loan and the rental charges.

Mather has put £1m in, he'd need around a 3 year stay to make that justifiable given wages, bonuses etc. That's if it's a business ran as a going concern. Only it isn't.

Then it gets interesting, do they do what they do best? Asset strip like hell with fat trimming so neat that it shaves the bone on the way by? Turn it into a slick profit making machine and sell up or leave it to wreck and ruin knowing full well that whomever takes over has to shell out for the rental?

Brilliant if true, overspend like hell, award bonuses galore, justify insane luxury expenditure and make the club such a basket case so no one will touch it. Enamour yourself to the support and manager by indulging this huge team/staff culture while locking into incremental wage structures that increase costs year on year and shaft them till doomsday or the Turnberry Hotel, whichever is closer.

Gaz

Sir David Murray


That is all

Goodnight

That's a long time to liquidate is it not?

That is all ( I know I already said that)

Goodnight (again)

Gaz, if its that important tell us all now so we can act. No use in a few weeks turning round and saying ' I knew all this but noone could work it out' if your genuine 'step up and play' if not shut it.

GOVAN BEAR

18 Aug 2013 22:44:29
Dont tell us mr whyte going to resurface in the opposite side briblue

Gaz, if you have something so revealing why don't you spit it out? Not everyone has your astuteness and sharpness. That does not make people dumb, just uneducated in the realm you are in right now. You should be on the board as you seem to have mastered the art of ambiguity where you can sit on the fence, wait for the wind direction then say "I almost told you so!" I enjoy a lot of your posts but this one (IMO) is just a teaser to stir the soup.

TT

I started my 3rd post with "absolutely bang on Les". Did no one therefore read that as meaning Les had the answer?

Based on the bewildering levels of expenditure to date the only feasible explanation for some of it is that they are wilfully bleeding the club dry. They are making it so toxic and unattractive that no one else will happily give them any cash while they remain in control.

This means that the extra investment required will not come from outside sources. This means that the only possible source of further revenue available has to come from them. ie A loan and a purchase of Ibrox, Murray Park and the carpark. Returned to the club on a lease basis (read the post on it in the rumours page). They stump up the cash to keep the club afloat, they get the assets, lease them back and have their hooks into you till doomsday or when you buy them back.

I'm not saying it is definite but what else in the world can explain 7 players last year, 8 players this year, Gordon Durie, player pay-offs, huge bonuses, no redundancies, Traynor and the cherry on top - staying overnight at Turnberry lodges while on a "gruelling" 85.9 mile journey from Glasgow to Stranraer?

Some of you left around 11. 30am and were back in time for the end of the Man. Utd game, correct? Somehow Rangers turned it into a multi thousand pound costing jolly.

I'm still not saying it's fact (the intentional cash bleeding) but what in hell else can explain this madness?

Gaz

Looks the most reasonable assumption. Said all along that when they got hold of the assets, mainly IBROX, they had you by the nads. Ally said straight away if it was a "team in blue playing at Ibrox", immediately aligning Rangers with Ibrox, and only Ibrox.

So you're stuck with whoever owns Ibrox, which has been like a great mystery since June last year. (We must have the crappiest media in the world. ) Now, even if you ask who owns Ibrox you're getting threatened. Seems like the actions of desperados.

So, assets that were sold for next to nothing, will be worth ££££millions each year in rent alone. (Well done D&P).

The saddest thing in all of this, and it was possibly the plan all along (unwittingly or wittingly enabled by the support of Ally and Walter, I don't know), is that these w*nkers have used you Rangers fans love of your club (and it's Ibrox home) as a bat to beat you with. Without your love and support for the Gers they would have nothing to hold over you.

That makes me sick! Best of luck.

Shuggy

18 Aug 2013 15:01:40
This is my first ever post although have responded to many. Many other clubs fans continue to post on this site suggesting we deserve what we get because we continue to do nothing to arrest the fall of the club - they are correct. We (the fans) despite difference of opinion have to act to save the club.

If the Ed allows, this post should be republished daily until the fans do something effective

The only power the fans have is strength in number and we should :

Turn up for ever home game but do not enter Ibrox until the current board are removed and some form of governance is returned which we are happy with. Stay outside for the full 90 mins

This will have a massive effect on share price and the shareholders will be forced to act not to protect the club but to protect their investment. Remember the club is worthless without 44,000 fans inside the ground

I do not pretend to have all the answers but we should do what we can to make change happen. Remember there were warning signs before and at the point of Craig Whyte taking over and we collectively ignored them. Are we really going to do this again and if so there will be no one to blame but ourselves.

It really does not matter whether we believe Charles Green, Craig Whyte or Jim McColl. We have to send a strong message to all of these people that they can no longer take us for granted.

I walked around Ibrox and the Rangers shop before the Brechin game and what I saw was 44,000 sheep debating whether we should buy any kit with J&B Sports written on it. Is this really the extent of our imagination. I as one of the sheep simply plodded on into the ground just as we do without question, then clapped a few banners and a few songs but nothing changes. What I should have done was stayed out of the ground but this only has teeth if my fellow Rangers Fans are with me.

I have made this point before and people have responded by saying that it is pointless because the club already have the season ticket money. This is true but the real debate is about share price and people making money from our loyalty to the badge and Ibrox - the season ticket money is gone we have to stop thinking in days and weeks and start thinking in years to recover the club. What about loyalty to each other because we are the only ever present.

I say unite or the club dies and if this means putting faith in say the RST ( I am not a member) then I would rather trust these guys than any of these other so called "white knights" who have all proved to be bad for the club.

Is it not time we lived up to the billing "WATP"

SR

Youve bought your tickets. they've got your cash. Simples.

Years too late, I appreciate many are consumed by grief but Rangers were liquidated last year. How thick are you?

Did liquidation mean nothing?
Did all your players walking away mean nothing?
Does having a new club with new SFA membership and which started at the bottom of Scottish football mean nothing?

Rangers are now in the same category as Third Lanark & Gretna - THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE other than there's a replica club pretending to be something which is dead and gone!

Know any Third Lanark supporters? No, neither do I!

Good idea mate but your too late, baybear is a great example of this. He tried to not buy a season ticket but gave in & paid his money as a month or 2 of not wanting to. Fair play to him but he did at least try & get people on board his idea similar to yours by getting behind a fan base board. On that note you have the RST & RSA. I don't know which one that clown Dingwall works for but he gave the green light to the whyte deal.

From the shares to buying more season ticket money, the fans have just lined the pockets of everyone In higher management. Rangers have been crying out for a out & out business man since Murray wanted out of the place. A business man would cost cut the team within hours not days or give 1 week deadlines like D&P done, make everyone take a wage drop pump in youth tell the fans it won't be pretty but youth is our new approach until such times. Then after running the club for about 2/3 seasons float shares bring in money buy players sell the good youth for all profit etc then sell a club that's been 'cleansed'. Rather than sign a rangers legend on the board pay him a wage, sign a PR man from the daily record, the list goes on. The fans were warned about whyte green and then blamed everyone else for the mess their in. IMO everyone expects rangers to hit admin again then bring the question regarding the deeds.

Lenny

I am sure that strategy would suit you and the rest of the Celtic support Lenny. Not going to happen we will be back in 2 years to claim our crown back and you Lenny will then be gone from this forum for a long, long time.

19 Aug 2013 11:58:23
@4 - you are seriously deluded if you think Rangers Will challenge Celtic in anyway for at least 5 years. Maybe 10. that's the hard fact. Accept it.

Benedict

@3- Don't know if you noticed my earlier posts but at the last min I realised the error of my ways and cancelled my renewal. Not that this makes any difference in the grand scheme of things but I'm glad I'm not a part of this ba*7ardization of my club. Sometimes you can only go with your gut and from the moment my first payment came out it just didn't feel right. Still feel f**king gutted though.

15 Aug 2013 17:27:58
Not a rumour, just wondering is anyone running a mini league for the sun dreamteam this year? {The Ed039's Note - I have been too busy to do anything like that this year, there is a league on the Liverpool site)

Andhol you have some fair points and I agree in principle to some of them, the redundancy issue yes I have been made redundant twice so I have a fair idea what goes on there. To be able to watch football without any other outside issues would be great and I am sure every true supporter would be delighted to just concentrate on the game, my issues are with the board of directors and senior and middle management at the club because they are without doubt culpable to what is happening right now, every day they continue to bring our club into a very difficult place and I only wish to highlight those particular issues and keep them in the domain so other fans can either comment or agree and of course disagree. It is a very serious situation the club is in right now and we ( the supporters) must get the answers otherwise they will continue until it is then too late!

So not doom and gloom more a reality to what is actually happening at the club!

And just to acknowledge that the club is obviously running scared as a raw nerve must have been touched recently with the recent statement from the politburo.

17 Aug 2013 23:33:23
we may well have cut the wage bill but we are SERIOUSLY well over committed on coaching and backroom staff for a third tier club, and it's time jobs AND wages were cut in this area.

Wee Bill

Agreed that's where we should be looking to cut no need for 2 assistants and a goal keeping coach. Ridiculous to have them all. Cutting 2 of them would save a significant amount {The Ed039's Note - no need for a goalkeeping coach? Are you mental?)

Where have you been the club has already said wage bill is less then last year, person

18 Aug 2013 13:04:53
to 2) i've already said we HAVE cut the wage bill, but we are still spending too much. Just found out Ally had the team stay at Turnberry on Friday night. Does he not know its only a few hour coach trip tp Stranraer? Just try to remember where we have come from and how easy it would be to go back down the big slide.

Wee Bill

@2. not quite true. remember other players had to be paid to leave, eg, goian, kyle, sandaza, so that should be added to this years salary budget.

18 Aug 2013 15:32:59
Brilliant stuff from Ally. team stay overnight in 5 star lodges less then an hour down the road before yeterday's game then go by coach to Stranraer again less then an hour down the road for a 3 o'clock KO.

Barcelona don't even do overnight stays if its that distance.

@4 Kyle wasn't paid off and we don't know the sandaza situation the only ones we know for sure who got paid off is boca and goian

@ No. 2

I would be very surprised if the wage bill is lower this year than last. True, one of the big (ish) earners, Neil Alexander, has gone but Goian and Bocanegra (whose salaries were covered last year by the clubs they were loaned to) have been paid off at a reported cost of 500k each. It has also been widely reported that Sandaza has been paid a similar amount to terminate his contract. I'm sure that Kevin Kyle also had at least part of his contract paid up when he left. In addition, there are 8 new signings on a salary of around 5k a week to account for and probably the biggest earner of all - Lee McCulloch - is still on the books.

Wee bill let me clarify we are not a thir tier club, get that mentality out of your head mate, we are a top tier club who are playing our way through lower leagues to get back to the top, third tier clubs do not sell 33000 season tickets, third tier clubs do not play to 45000 crowds at home, third tier clubs do not sell out every away ground they visit. Do I agree we need to manage finances better? Of course I do but please don't tell me we are a third tier club

JG

@8, what tier of football are you playing. Yes that's right third tier. The problem is that you are still spending as a first tier club but look at the league your in. It will end in tears

Vambo