Rangers Banter Archive October 13 2016

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13 Oct 2016 22:53:00
Everything has gone very quiet on our kit situation, like most i was led to believe by dave king's statement way back at the very beginning of august that we would have had some sort of announcement by now on our ongoing dispute with puma. We all know we'll be parting company with puma but king did say in august that we would find out within a month if puma would be staying as our kit manufacturers but he also stated that puma would have to agree a new deal with rangers without sports direct. This is a big deal for our club regarding revenue coming into our club with hopefully the fans buying replica kits again once this is sorted out, i have been told some very sound info that under armour are most definitely going to be our new kit manufacturers, what's the thoughts out there bears? Has anyone heard anything at all regarding our very important kit manufacturing situation?

14 Oct 2016 08:25:25
I've said time and time again we're in no position to do anything really in regards to manufacturing or selling any kits because of the retail deal. Its a legally binding contract we have to obide by until the notice period is adhered to or if the contract is deemed null and void. It will take closer to years than months/ weeks for the contract to be revised and then for legal proceedings to actually take effect and with Ashley, who has nothing really to lose he'll be willing to let every legal procedure pass by including appeals. Under Armour can make what they want, but the fact of the matter is that we have a contract that rangers merchandise is to be sold mainly from SD stores or the money going to them.

I've said time and time again if its as simple as you make out it would be done already.

14 Oct 2016 11:19:25
Super ally, i've also said time and time again that both sports direct and puma BROKE part of the contract when firstly after rangers paying MA his 5 million quid to get back the rangers badge image rights, sports direct CAN'T or should i say SHOULDN'T be selling any glasgow rangers merchandise with our famous scrolled badge on it. FACT mate! Secondly, puma went behind the club's back in selling the shirts when rangers hadn't given them the say so, puma 100% sided with sports direct on this which trust me is a massive mistake on their part! So these very crucial errors just may be our way out and cutting our ties with both completely and taking our chances on very good grounds of winning our case in court, FACT! In the meantime let's get a new kit manufacturer and retail partner, sell rakes of rangers replica kits and making big money for the club like we always used to! We were up until all this carry on getting in tow with SD, the 2nd biggest club in britain in sales of replica shirts, only manchester utd sold more! FACT!

14 Oct 2016 12:18:27
P. s. you're spouting so called facts totally irrelevant to the contract in question.

14 Oct 2016 12:33:46
Super ally, what are you on about? I've explained it all in my post! Its not my fault your not grasping my point! What piece of my post isn't true? I'll answer it for you, NONE!

14 Oct 2016 12:57:37
How did they break terms of a contract that was already in place before the 5m loan was given. The loan was for securities overy imaging rights nothing to do with the retail contract. THEY ARE TWO SERPERATE ENTITIES, so you cannot use one to restrict the other.

You're "point (s) " look like they were set our by a 15 year old, you have no concept of what the contractual situation is and always post makebelieve rumours and ideas which are always more wishful thinking or adding 2+2 and getting 16.

If it was as simple as you've made out, which it really isnt, then we would have done this ages ago. If we went on your idea we'd breach the agreement in place and therefore owe any money drummed up to MA.

14 Oct 2016 13:28:16
Now now ladies, put your handbags away.

14 Oct 2016 14:00:15
What about the badge rights did they not break that when it clearly stated that the badge rights came back to us when the 5 million quid was paid back! SD cannot sell any rangers merchandise with the badge on it or they're in breach of contract, honestly I can't be any clear for gods sake!

14 Oct 2016 14:13:54
Got to say I can't wait till this goes to court because we need an answer before the season is done so we can hopefully get back to wearing the mighty rangers kit .

think when this is all over and we are advised to start buying tops then we will see a city overrun by guys like us wearing our rangers top with pride.

I honestly hate not buying my son and myself the rangers kit it just feels wrong to not have it.

14 Oct 2016 14:38:05
Cleary not, because every vendor that sells them is doing it no bother at all with licenced goods, so there must be a stipulation in the retail contract which means they can continue selling licenced goods, which i'm going to say is entirely seperate to the loan he gave us. Fair that we now have the imaging rights and licences but us saying you can use them doesn't mean he can't if its in paper in a legal form to suggest he can for the next 5 years or so.

I don't take any enjoyment in the fact this is the case, you need to remember that but what you are saying is just michael fish.

14 Oct 2016 16:17:06
Super ally, listen mate, i know what you're saying trust me on it. Why do you think extensive negotiations have been going on for months now with regards to king saying that SD have now got no rights to sell anything in their shop which sports the rangers badge. I'll tell you why, its because king has his legal team trying to force the issue on this in which king and some of the rangers directors are confident they'll win. Try and differentiate what i'm saying here mate. SD CAN sell rangers merchandise but NOT now with our badge on it! King and co said that puma and SD have breached that part of the deal, that's why we're in dispute with them for goodness sake. Don't take my word for it if that's your perogative mate then take Mr. kings word on it. What does any other bear think out there regarding this? Where do you stand on our argument ed, what's your take?

{Ed001's Note - not got a clue, as I have not seen the contract.}

13 Oct 2016 17:04:34
Regarding the Atlantic league, the editor said it best: we shouldn't be thinking of leaving the Scottish league like a rat jumping from a sinking ship. Let's try repair the ship, the product and make it a worthwhile investment. So much history would go down the pan if we left the Scottish leagues. While I must admit it would be exciting to join an Atlantic league or move down south, I feel it would a short term buzz and I'd miss our beloved Scottish league.

There's no argument that things need to change. Like outing the dinosaurs that run our game and a few of the current member club's chairmen could be doing with retiring and taking their old fashioned philosophies with them. The attitude of our fans must change. Every home game at every ground must be packed regardless if it's a big game or not. Show outside investors or love for the beautiful game and they'll put their hands in their pockets. I for one hate seeing an empty Scotrish stadium especially if it's on tv. It's embarrassing. What right minded investor would look at that and think it's an attractive proposition. None. The constant in-league bickering between teams needs to be a 90mins only thing. It's not helping anyone. Sure you can passionately dislike your rival clubs but when it comes to bigger picture stuff, we need to join forces for the sake of creating a better product. Otherwise we could be resigned to mediocrity until the end of time.

14 Oct 2016 10:09:42
A lot of hate for this post. Shame. It kind of emphasises the point I'm making. I don't see things becoming better unless we can all get on same page.

14 Oct 2016 11:07:26
Lets be blunt here. People have tried time and again to change/ improve our system. Pack the grounds?
Drop the prices, but prices can't be dropped as there is no money in the league, and teams can't afford to do that. No investors are looking at this league as even the english championship is a better deal. There is no denying the scottish peoples love for football. But its not £3 to get in like the 80's. Were looking at prices of £50 to watch us vs celtic. Barcelone vs Real at the top tier (to scary for me) are priced at £15.59. You think we would give those prices? no chance because there is no money in the game up here. No chance, for me its the atlantic league, and for the people saying 'oh but if we go then aberdeen, hearts, hibs will say why can't we'. The atlantic league is planning, if it goes any further, to be a pyramid system allowing other teams into it. Call it jumping ship if you want, I call it progression.

14 Oct 2016 14:04:50
I thought it was a pretty fair post Monty and don't disagree with anything you have said! Would miss the Scottish league but there is going to be a certain point that if somthing is not done we will end up being on a par with Welsh and Irish leagues.

14 Oct 2016 14:44:13
be realistic it would be easier to create a new league than it would be to fix this league we are falling further and further behind the big countries and so are the likes of Turkish football dutch football sweedish football to name but a few.
as much as I wish we could get the tv revenue like England our population doesn not allow this and Scottish football even if every team had a chance of winning the league and we all played nice style of football our league would still be financially in ruins .

im pro atlantic league get to watch rangers play top teams like ajax fernabache gallatasary and so on week in week out would be a better watch than rangers v killie for instance.

14 Oct 2016 14:18:44
celtic will prefer the pacific league dougie.

13 Oct 2016 11:42:49
I just wanted to put two points across.
First regarding the Atlantic League. If the opportunity comes up for us and celtic and any other scottish team to enter this, I think we have to jump at the chance. I think it would be silly to sit back and stay in the spl. We are a HUGE brand and we are not fulfilling our true potential. This league would jump us and the rest forward. We will never ever compete in the european champions league to the extent we should. A club out size should be up there having a chance of winning that trophy but money talks and in the spl we don't have any. So for me to go and watch us play the likes or ajax, sporting lisbon, olympiacos week in week out, with no disrespect to the lower teams in the spl. I know who I would want to see. I want a league where there is a real challenge, fair enough this year were abit off. But 3-4 years time there will only be 2 teams in scotland again, to me that's boring maybe not to you.

My Second point it regarding Strachan. I feel he has to go and I want a manager to come in who is proven with lower quality teams a Heimir Hallgrímsson or the like. I want a manager that says give me 2 qualifiers, I will start playing the youngsters, I will bring them up through the system and by the time the second qualifier is underway and if it sint working I will leave. Scotland needs a young team and at the present they aren't getting the chance. Olly burke for example, the boy is a fast power house. Why he didn't play is beyond me. We need players who are actually playing week in week out and they need to be young, fresh and willing. Not these older players who are well past it. the 2 fletchers, malone. Mould a young team into a unit that play for each other and the jersey.

13 Oct 2016 12:46:08
Would be madness to jump into a league where every second week would need to travel abroad to watch rangers. Especially in the current climate where it will become more hassel traveling freely throughout europe.
Rangers and Celtic will never leave the scottish leagues but if we did it would only be for a move down south.
how many times now have we heard this nonsense about atlantic league.
Why would we turn down champions league oppertunities to watch us travel to brondy and malmo week in and out.

13 Oct 2016 13:33:29
Dumfermlineloyal, moving to EPL is always going to be a no.
Thats exactly the reason the TV money would be huge. A huge fan base struggling to to get to away games generates a need for a large tv deal. maybe its just me but I can not see the reasons to stay. Our nation is being forced out of the champions league they don't want us in it. They only want the rich teams. I think we would be kicking ourself if we actually decided that we would be better off in the spl. Also you think we are better than malmo? or brondby? Say they offer the deal to scotland for 2 clubs to join. Celtic and Aberdeen join as we want to stay in spl so we can get to champions league. What players would come to us? Celtic and Aberdeen would have far far more money. Be attracting top top players and the spl would be worth even less than it is now.

13 Oct 2016 13:34:51
In 20 years time do you all really think Barcelona will still play in spain? Man united in England? Bayern in Germany? a super league is coming, and we need to try our best to be part of an exclusive league of our own, it's been in the pipeline for long enough now. it is clear that people are losing interest in the champions league, best way around that? create a 20 team league built up of the best teams in the world, now that is interesting. I don't care for one off games with Madrid vs Chelsea, or Man utd vs Barcelona, I'm very interested in seeing who would win a league built up of the best teams in the world. you could even make a 2nd division made up of other teams not quite ready for the jump into the big league, bottom 2/ 3 teams are relegated each year and the top 2/ 3 from the "smaller" league would come up. That to me is seriously interesting. I for one would enjoy Rangers and Celtic playing against the teams we have been linked to through the atlantic league., people seem to forget these teams qualify for Europe more often than our own do.

13 Oct 2016 15:58:01
the atlantic league would mark the start of worldwide football and its only a matter of when not if we go and the atlantic league would be a lot better of finicially think of the battle for tv right to it aswell as sponsors who know their brand will be seen by a much wider audience for me its a no brainer leave the wee teams behind.

rangers and celtic have always said they would go and rangers have been the ones to instigate it with ajax before so we will be doing that and hopefully taking the limelight away from the epl and the rest of the big teams.

13 Oct 2016 16:23:04
I really don't see how any of this will work. Someone somewhere will have to set up a brand new football governing body as UEFA simply will not allow the Atlantic league.
But if one day it did happen and RFC and CFC join up, all that does is allow other teams to dominate Scottish football. Then in turns that team says "well we want to join the Atlantic league because Scottish football is boring".

This will happen across every league in Europe, I see it as a complete non starter.

13 Oct 2016 19:46:35
Disagree strongly about the Atlantic league but totally get your idea about a new Scotland coach.

13 Oct 2016 21:29:36
Yes they will be still playing in their own countries.

14 Oct 2016 03:56:38
I have to agree about global club football becoming the standard, it won't happen overnight but with foreign owners pretty much the standard at big big clubs and the greed of the broadcasters I think its only a matter of time.

14 Oct 2016 10:12:50
The 1 big point you are all missing is the fact you have to be asked. At present there's no evidence to suggest you should be asked or will be ask to play elite football in elite stadia.

14 Oct 2016 15:04:16
believe me ttts rangers and celtic would be the first teams on the list if this was to happen and we would only need to sign up for it.
tv deals would come .
uefa is trying to make the chyamps league invitation only which would leave out the countries that want to join this league. so only need fifa approval uefa nothing to do with it.
as things stand rangers and celtic are lucky if we get to group stages of champs league with no chance of winning it so we wouldn't really be missing too much in that sense.

mark my words this will happen even if it takes another ten years to set up it will happen.

13 oct 2016 09:09:51
i think bartons presence at ibrox will be down to his ability on the park. but employment law and his illegal betting should mean we get rid of him for hee haw.

13 Oct 2016 17:10:45
Not sure the betting will be enough to get rid of him. Its not as if he has bet against Rangers or bet in matches involving the club. Quite a few players have fallen foul of the SFA rules and none have been sacked by their clubs. It's not as if the punishments handed out by the SFA have been very severe either. Is that really gross misconduct? I very much doubt it.

13 Oct 2016 19:55:47
There are loads of posters on here that seem to have very little understanding of the realities of employment law.

We can't sack Barton for something that we didn't sack simonsen or black for.

We can't cancel his contract without paying out in full.

Each instance unless directly related or being a similar offence MUST be dealt with in isolation, fairly and not as part of a plan to force someone out of employment.

If we try either of those it is termed constructive dismissal meaning he can take us to a tribunal for loss of earnings and compensation.

Please people before making statements about what you think should or should not happen go onto the ACAS website, download the guidelines and spend some time reading them.

IMO signing Barton was a very foreseeable error, but the way the club has acted is disgraceful and as a result I have sympathy for a player I never wanted in a rangers shirt.

14 Oct 2016 10:32:42
DisHco squad,
I do have some experience of employment law having been involved in disciplinary and grievance procedures as a manager in local government for 20 years. I did retire 4 years ago so as you recommended I had a look at the ACAS website to refresh my memory. I am sure you are right Barton cannot and will not be sacked for breaching betting rules. You are also right that the club has to be wary of constructive dismissal and the serious financial implications that could have. It may be however that whatever happened on that day the club is alleging that he committed an act of gross misconduct such as serious insubordination which they believe warrants instant dismissal. I accept this is pure conjecture on my part however. The only part of your post I disagree with is having sympathy with Barton. Don't like him and like you didn't want him. He is a big boy, can look after himself and the only thing he is losing out on is a regular game of football as I am sure he is suspended on full pay. The only thing that is cause for concern is how long it is taking to resolve but this may be down to him just as much as the club. As these things are supposed to be dealt with privately and confidentially we may never know. Anyway whatever happens can't see this all ending in a good way for the club but can see Barton walking away to play for an English club with a good wedge from us in his pocket from us-so no sympathy from me whatsoever.