Rangers Rumours Archive May 17 2012
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17 May 2012 23:51:53
Certainly I am not pleased with the transfer embargo placed on Rangers largely as a result of Craig Whyte. However, perhaps its just what we need to give our youth a chance. Clearly, we are only competing domestically next year and its time to bring the younger player through. With that said it would be essential to prioritize keeping the bulk of our experienced squad intact so that there is significant support for the less experienced players.
I've posted a few times in the past concerning our clubs inability to develop and introduce youth players. Why did we have Murray park? Instead of buying Emerson, Beattie etc maybe we should give a chance to our younger players. After all Barca, Arsenal, and other big teams do it in bigger competitions so the whole old firm can't afford to lose excuse doesn't fly. Let's finally give youth a chance.
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Well said , when Walter took over from le guen he rebuilt the team with more experienced / quality and most where gers supporters which was needed , but then I think Charlie Adam every time he played for gers there was boos from the crowd too much pressure to win every match on younger players at that time , now I agree it's time just to play youths build the team for the next couple of years then buy 1 - 2 quality players
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That would be the transfer embargo placed on Rangers FC ( in administration) as a resultof the actions of its owner. Seems a fair deal to me. Whats the problem ?
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Our youth coaching methods need an overhaul; these players are not emerging as the potential stars they ought to have been
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One man takes a lot of the blame for the lack of youngsters over the years: Walter Smith.....he always wanted to buy bigger and better and SDM's ego went along with that strategy. Unfortunately, wee Dick also went along with it but, at least, he gave Bazza Ferguson a directive to get in the 1st team and 'make it your own'. But, no, Walter only wanted to buy big (foreign).....but, to be fair, at least he had the sense of mind to buy in Rangers-supportin' players over the last few years.
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While I agree with the sentiment, we need to bring in people who can actually spot and develope young players. No gain for club or player if we're just going thru the motions and make no mistake about it, for the better part of 25yrs, that's exactly what we've been doing. Rangers till I die and not ashamed to say so
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Totally agree with this post, big teams like Celtic focus on producing youth and look what they have coming off out of Lennoxtown, Aiden McGeady, Shaun Maloney, James Forrest, Steven Crainey, and other prospects such as Dylan McGeough.
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Agreed. I think we should take our medicine gracefully and try and make some good out of it. This is exactly what we should be looking at in the circumstances.
Big G.
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This should be a test to green, your team cant buy players over 18 but there is no restriction on how much you can spend on youth set up scouting etc. So this year if he dose have Ra****s future in mind he should invest some of his 'war-chest' there
DB77
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Alan MacGregor, Charlie Adam, Alan Hutton, Greg Wylde, Andy Little, Kyle Hutton, Ross Perry, Jamie Ness - have you heard of those guys? They are all either full internationals or under-21s. Rangers didn't play kids in Europe because there was too much money riding on it and idiots fans who don't go to games boo all the young players coming through.
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Totally agree. You should concentrate on developing good young Scottish talent (sensible Rangers fan)
....and then tell them they cannae play for Scotland cause you're in the huff. (Idiot)
Shug
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Its a good point you make. However, I have some concerns regarding the Gers coaching, particularly 1st team. Smaller clubs come to Ibrox and appear to play more structured football than we do - Ally needs a top coach to assist him and stop the pedestrian, square passing. So boring
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Give youth a chance??
where have they finished in the youth league these past few years?
What have the youth team won of late.....as far as I can find and see they have been behind Celtic in youth development for years now..... they retained there "better" youngsters and then sold them on after they didn't make the grade or they have been sold on for a bit of money. Murray Park kids were sold on before they got that chance and where is that money now.... Wilson, Adam, Fleck, Wylde.......
Clutching at straws if you think that the youth have ANY chance of stepping up to the grade any time soon!
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We have produced far more youth players than celtic in the last 10 year, did livingston get a transfer embargo, nope
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Lets get all our scouts out lookin for 14-17year olds since thats all we can get within a few years when our finance's are more secure we will have a strong young team with first team experience. It could end up doing us a favour in the long run. R.T.I.D
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Did livingston try to cheat the tax man, nope.
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Where did they pull this transfer embargo from? its been made it and has nothing to do with the taxman! its a made up punishment to make us as uncompetative as possible after we exit administration- weve never had a good youth system for years, fleck has wasted himself, adam was fat at rangers, wylde was very up and down decent end to our last championship winning season, wilson was a decent player for us but was down the road at the first open door- 4 names since ferguson came through, ross mccormack never given a chance-mcmillian was in his mid 20`s when he left hardly young!
stg
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Walter Smith was to blame for the lack of youth players breaking through.
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Please Note - Dundee got a transfer embargo.
Also - Still to pass for Rangers.
EBTs , Double contracts , Forged and shredded documents and contracts.
UEFA still to intervene (and they will) and the police. We will have a better feel of the situation after Wednesday evening TV program on Rangers and D Murray.
Who Sold The Jersey.
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Dundee got transfer embargo while in admin.It elaspsed after coming out of admin. As any club in admin does. SFA didn't impose any sanctions on Dundee the SFL did. SFA have never imposed a sanction on any club that has gone into admin. Why now
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To the guy that listed magregor, adam etc. Only 3 played a substantial number of games for Rangers (greggs, adam and hutton): if you add ferguson then that's 4 players since 1998. Truely a poor show for youth development. True enough we have had some promising talent in the pipeline, but as others pointed out some were not given a chance or were sold. I also agree that our coaching has been poor in the respect of give youth a chance. Despite the criticism, the hope is that we do give youth a chance rather than buying over rated duds like ortiz, emerson or beattie among others. Let's see some scottish kids gracing our colors.
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17 May 2012 23:37:09
i think the transfer ban will help us out buisness ways because we should be buying young talent n turn them into great players anyway. we are a selling club so good profits if the scouts can find good talent
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It took a transfer band in order to you start thinking about a youth team. yous are only mad about the band becaue you know yous have no youth team because all the money went to all old unaffordable players. your too late to the game and because of that yous will be hurting even more
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Perhaps Murray Park could be used to its full potential to develope the youth of tomorrow
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Our under 19' fell well short this season!
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To the "loony" who things we've just started to think about "youth" John Greig introduced our current our youth policy in 1979 and the list is to long to name but where do you think Durrant and McGregor came from ! and who just won the Glasgow Cup @ under 17s
bertiboy
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17 May 2012 22:34:19
When big eck was boss we wer 80 mil in debt , we got that down to 18mill , the wee toerag comes in and stops payin the players and staffs tax , he tells the bloke who deals with that side of things not to say a word to no one , greig chucks it because he,s no say in things mclleland chucks it for the same thing , bain files to sue whyte , this is after the rest of the board have walked because their not happy that whytes in control of the club , all this going on and the sfa dont bat an eye even after tv delving into things and the press asking questions , walter smith coming out and sayin it was uhe best financial position the club was in in 70 years but the sfa asume that someone must have known , so weve been on assumption , and all wee keep hearing is that wee wer in the wrong and should take our punishment , what a absolute joke
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Why did wallter spend over 30 million when it was known rangers were broke.
Walter has run up most of the debt - he often had a team worth more than the Celtic team whilst claiming no money.
it would be interesting to hear walts views on dual contracts.
rangers are being punished for 15 years, not 15 months.
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Thats right - all innocent.
it was the big boys who ran away eh!
is anyone ever ever ever going to say sorry and admit what was done needs addressed?
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How can you blame the s.f.a, the people inside your club knew things were not right. Why didn't the greatest ger not come out and say anything?
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Craig Whyte is not responsible for the non payment of PAYE, NI and VAT.
Rangers FC (IA) is responsible, as a club and as a corporation.
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Lloyds forgave a lot of debt and interest, no way did Rangers pay back £62m in 3 years. Someone should review the published accounts for those years.
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Whytes reign is very recent and is only marginal in the demise of RFC.
The collective silence of directors over the previous 10-15 years about contracts and how players were paid is a damning indictment of the club, their culture and the bully boy attitude of their owner who ruled with impunity.
When all is said and done the spotlight will eventually fall on Murray and the fans will realise who sunk their beloved club, only then will Murray be asked serious questions about his reign and his role in the death of RFC.
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True Rangers men like John Greig should have spoken out publicly against Whyte.
Likewise Ally McCoist just a week or so before administration claimed both himself and Whyte ultimately had the club's best interests at heart and maintained he had a good working relationship with him.
Quote: He wants success for this football club just as much as I do.
Both men are true Ibrox legends and I bet they both deeply regret not speaking out now but they must have known a lot more then they let on and in this instance they let the fans down big style.
If they had the SFA would have been forced to investigate Whyte much sooner and I doubt the club we all love would be in quite the mess it is today.
BB
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That would be the October 2011 programme on the BBC that Rangers FC ( in adminstration) and their fans condemned as a load of lies would it ? Or was there one none of us saw ?
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Mate you are delusional. I can tell you actually believe what you are posting and have somehow convinced yourself, or someone else has. Its scary.
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It isnae ranjjurss's fault, neir it isnae, its everybudy else's fault, so it is
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Did murry not plough in 50 million at this time to reduce the debts
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It's not the SFA's job to police all of its members, most of whom are doing the right things most of the time. It's each member's responsibility to stay in the rules. It's not that hard you know.
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"he tells the bloke who deals with that side of things not to say a word to no one , ".... ?
Job of director is to ask - how come we suddenly have £1million more profit this month than last month..... - oh not paying taxes !! right - i'm off
directors face jail if company does wrong - thats the deal!! lots of cash for the job - but HUGE personal risk
you saying directors DID NOT ASK ?? - thats negligence and they can be sued for that !!
how do you hide not paying £1million a month ?? in a company with serious debt issues.....
directors could have stopped whyte, staff could have stopped whyte, fans could have stopped whyte
You all did not - thats why you punished - for what you lot did not do.
whyte got personal punishments for what he did. Life ban etc...
Club got punished for what the club as a whole did and did not do.
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Could be mr M did not pay £25 million in tax and thereby added £50 million of value to the balance sheet.
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At the end of the day it's the loyal fans who are being punished! We will be paying a premium for season books to come n watch average players next season! The embargo doesn't effect the club because we have no money to buy players anyway and we're no competing in Europe so there would have been no reason to heavily strengthen for that! The sfa keep goin on about the punishment was mainly because of whyte not paying bills and he's not fit n proper well they didn't exactly do much to stop him! And now it's us that's paying for it nxt yr!!
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What? Are you for real, it was the job of Rangers FC to carry out due diligence on Craig White, not the SFA.
Why don't you face up to your responsibility, Rangers have been found guilty of non payment of Tax and PAYE, this money was taken from players wages and used to fund the running of the club, that I am afraid is a serious no no, you cannot run any business in that manner let alone a football club, that money should have went to the inland revenue and then forwarded on to the treasury.
The punishment should fit the crime and quite frankly I think Rangers have got off lightly.
The expression you reap what you sow comes to mind do suck it up and stop looking to blame everyone else
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Ally got dropped from 4 competitions. With that loss of revenue Craig had to stop paying bills. Remember he went to court twice to be ordered to pay up? Ally's failure forced Craig's hand. Whyte saved Rangers by not paying PAYE, NI and VAT. That £13m paid the wages for 9 months. Or would u rather we paid the tax and sacked 100 staff? That was Craig's choice after the footballing disaster.
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Bit of truth in what you are saying but Walter has been sniffing Gas if he thinks the club was in a healthy state when Whyte took over.
Yes perhaps the bank debt was £18m but looks like the reason for this is because we were not paying tax for years. Whyte has a lot to answer for but the problems are much older than his tenure.
Big G.
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One problem with your post Gordon Smith was a director till the club went into administration, calls would have come into the club by creditors chasing late payment. I was told in November people weren't being paid it wasn't exactly a secret we had serious money problems. We just have to get on with it.
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I think it's astonishing that Rangers greatest player hasn't said anything! He walked away from the club and said nothing. He was a director of RFC and ultimately had a "directors responsiblity" to ensure that the club was being run properly. He did nothing. Shamefull !
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Ok another attempt to get a post on here.I enjoy the banter on this site but i think its time we get to the point.Like me most gers fans understand that we should be punished no probs with that but what we do have a gripe about is we keep getting more punishment we are constantly told we will probably get more punishment when this that and the next thing comes out about our dirty past.All we want is a end to it so we know where we stand as a club is it the spl with heavy sanctions not for me.Will it be no rangers what so ever not for me.Will it be relegated to div 3 this one is for me.Why simple really it proofs that the whole of scottish football is not corrupt ie putting money before sporting integrety.Also we are banned from signing new players for a year.It also looks like we will be banned from europe for 3 years.This will give us a chance to bring through a good young squad as we build ourselfs back up to the top.The only bad thing out of this would be no old firm games and smaller crowds at ibrox.But i am sure we would still get crowds of about 20 thousand which would easily maintain the costs as we would not be paying anymore than about 5k to any player.Thoughts fellow bears.
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It seems to me that what you are saying is that the SFA should have acted on hearsay and supposition. Their job is to police the Scottish game and l;ike the real police they can't just act because someone looks a bit funny. There has to be proof.
The SFA like the law is a body that acts after the fact. Most of what both organisations do revolves around aprehending and punishing the guilty. That is the small price we pay for living in a free society.
The SFA are not alone look at England no-one has ever raised any real concerns about Abramovich of Shiniwatra who robbed his country's exchequer to buy Man City.
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Walter said the club was in the best financial position it had been in in years when he left but he forgot about the gorrila in the room. The £75 million sword of damacles that is the big tax bill.
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This embargo is not for past 15 of past dealings. It only deals with 9 months of CW ownership. If double contracts are found to have been used there will be further punishment. As for directors not speaking out Grieg and Mclelland but resigned in October citing the reason as they had been totally taken out the loop of the running if the club. Surely this is speaking out. Bain, Jonstone, Murray Paul that is released statements as far back as last may casting a don't over Whyte SFA did SFA abt it. As for McCoist he is a football manager how would he know if tax & paye is getting paid. As a line manager I wouldn't know if the MD was paying the tax man or not. If any1 has actually read the SFA report they would know all charges relate to last 9 months Rangers & Whyte both charged with the offences ? . Surely it's 1 or the other. If the argument is Whyte is Rangers why has he been personally charged ? To many inconsistencies. Why were livi Dundee Motherwell not given same embargo by SFA. Livi were relegated by SFL no sanctions from SFA. They all owed taxman and had not been paying tax. It is also a restriction on employment and trade law. SFA cite it's not a law case so they can hand out these punishments. However they use a law case to prove Whyte & Ramgers are 1& the same ? Very Strange.
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Just too add to my above comment I would rather that we were relegated to the 3rd division as punishment. Would accept that if double contracts were used. If we have done wrong take a fair punishment and except it. I don't think there should be any question of keeping SPL status if we are guilty of double contracts. A wee note to a lot Celtic fans that won't us relegated just be careful as the voting system in SPL wil be challenged, new rules abt money distribution, wage restrictions for the league etc etc. as the smaller clubs that both the old firm teams have out voted in the last 12 years will now turn everything to there advantage. As the old firm have done for years
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Nobody is batting a eyelid about what is happening down in england because nothing has happened just imagine if the s--t hit the fan at one of the big 4 down there with hundreds of millions of pounds debt.I guarentee it would not be the circus that has unfolded up here with rules being made up as we go along total joke.I bet the FA would bend over backwards to help that club survive and why.Because as much as i h8 2 say it they only care about football and making sure the product is as strong as possible to attract big money.Then u look at our lot and they are acting like a bunch of kids with like but hes a big boy and hes been caught short so lets punish him anyway possible and get a good laugh at the same time its embarassing set out the punishment right away say right thats what u have been punished for not oh wait a minute heres some punishment now go away but we might call u back in a couple of weeks to give u more and get a good laugh at the same time.
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17 May 2012 19:55:30
So in a nutshell, our bigger players may be sold on for a pittance. Those that remain will not be allowed new team mates over the age of 18. Our playing squad will shrivel. We will be expected to fork out our hard earned cash and fill the coffers of SFA member clubs at away gamesbut watch our team possibly struggle as a consequence of the SFA's decision. Sorry mate not for me. I remember us in the late 70''s and the tic in the early nineties. Neither team was attractive to watch during those era's and going to the matches were soul destroying. Don't see why my cash should keep the parasites alive.
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Who says they will be sold for a pittance, they may have release figures now, but that does not mean that they will go. Release clause only allows the players to have a say if they want to go and somebody meets the price. I would have thought that the new owners will do everything to keep them, because if we don't and cant sign anybody there will be no Europe the following year either.
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Don't care if rangers start the season with 11 5 year olds aslong as there wearing the blue shirt I'll b there..
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How long have Rangers been cheating all the teams in the SPL. Guess what? When that was happening all the wee diddy teams fans were shelling out our money whilst the SFA must have known a certain team were living way beyond there means. I feel sorry for the genuine Rangers supporters. But guys like you are making most other fans hope your club now dies.
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Celtic won 9 in a row.....
rangers won 9 in a row...
this is what happens with scottish football, its been pants for years...
So celtic go on a 9 year run - get used to it and come back stronger.
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New manager at liverpool, new manager at Aston Villa, maybe managers moving from other teams...
They will all want players, but money will be tight - and rangers players can move to english premier league, or championship teams for pennies to the club, but huge new salaries and sign-on bonus for players....
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Take the punishment you lot broke the rules. just because you dont think you will win the league you are walking away do ross county fans think they will win the league i dont think so but they will be there.
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I for one am happy to hear you dont want to watch anymore, dont need s**t attitudes like that in ibrox, only people who are behind the team 100% no matter what!
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Who says Green and co don't have the money to keep the likes of McGregor and Naismith? If they want to stay we can pay them whatever we like thats not anyone elses business?
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You have been stealing off every other club in Scotland for the last 20 years by playing players you could not afford. Is that too difficult for you to understand ? It may become clearer after the official investigation into playing illegally registered players which will result in the withdrawal of titles and cups .And all this is before UEFA get involved .
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Well said poster above. Its about supporting your team through thick and thin. Doesn't matter how bad it gets you go and cheer them on. Whenever it turns around you will then appreciate it even more cause what you've had to suffer watching. The one thing we can all be sure of is whether it takes 2 or 3 years maybe 4. The Rangers will be back at the top and you will be glad you never gave up your seat and soldiered on.
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Celtic's nine in a row was honest.
The Rangers nine in a row was dishonest, tainted and cheating, shortly to be rescinded I'm afraid.
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Well said @2 dont care if . Can see your a real supporter and not a glory hunter like many on this page.....Stevie
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That's why the quickest way to recovery is coming up through the divisions and by year 3 we'll have served all the punishment we are getting plus blooding the youngsters ready to win back the SPL (if it still exists).
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So now the cheating goes from 10 years to twenty hmmmm okay were the so called dual contracts not.after the 9 in a row as for not able to afford them hmmm clearly yoor wrong as they were paid it was more a matter of murry finding savings in not having to pay them taxes as they were loaned the money from an offshore account which is like what buisnesses are doin all over britian they make a company in a tax haven lend that money to the British arm n the profits the company go back the way as payments for the loan which isn't tax detuctible which is or was legal
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Celtic's nine in a row was honest.
The Rangers nine in a row was dishonest, tainted and cheating, shortly to be rescinded I'm afraid.
rescinded on what basis ? EBTS? they didnt start until 1998. the last of 9 in a row happened in 1997. EBTs weren't illegal they were a tax avoidance device available to all even Celtic
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"EBTs weren't illegal they were a tax avoidance device available to all even Celtic" ya your right but most teams saw where there may be problems and chose not to use them, yous were the ones who did and now look your arguing it was fair when infact if it was there would be no problem. accept the fact your club took the risk and now have to pay for it, turns out it was wrong so deal with it.
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The EBTs start date as far as I know is still to be established, however I accept that only titles won during their existence should be reviewed. The RFC 9-in-a-row could well be OK and whilst I am not a Rangers man I honestly would prefer to think everything we watched was fair and equitable so here's hoping.
RFC's problem is if they have been cheating for as long as everyone suspects then on review Celtic will be going for about 16-in-a-row and that is a vary sad indictment of RFC. Add to that oter teams should have won titles, other teams sdhould hav efinished second and cash payments for every team in the league should have been greater.
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So our 9 in a row wasn't illegal I'm glad the previous poster can now accept that .
As hes now moved onto EBTs. If it was as simple as they are illegal, the tax tribunal would have lasted five minutes or the time it took to say "you owe us X" but we're almost 5 months in and no decision. there is no guilty or innocence as you only get that in court cases there is only a sum due at the end of a tax case.
the evidence of "double contracts "is the failing mind of a bitter old man and a letter which suggest there may have been. Hardly concrete
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I agree with the OP I don't see why his money should keep the parasites alive either but if he's been a fan this long I suppose he might as well keep giving money to them :)
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Aye it was a risk that backfired but rangers ain't the only team in football to have used them so it shall be intresting to see who gets hammered next n what punishment they get will the likes of you Celtic fans claim cheating proberly not its only because its rangers you claim cheating
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Can someone tell me if this boycott will include the derby games ? cos if it does atleast our toilets and seats will be safe.
but I doubt your fans will keep away from the derby games
hail hail
Marco1888
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Ally was right, you don't do walking away, after all you have to be there to walk away.
What happened to if they play in the streets we will support them from the pavements.
Take a leaf out of the real football fans on the other side of the city. They started a sack the board campaign before the club slid into the mire!
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@ original poster, the sfa is not made up of the member clubs, that is the spl, they are not responsible for the ban, also i dont think either of the two era's u mentioned are as bad as the football recently.
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Celtic won 9 in a row in the greatest era of scottish fitba spending as always less money than RFC giving out less bonuses than our glaswegian brothers.At the same time RFC not good enough to win a title in scotland went to 2 euro finals ,in that time st johnstone pumped HAMBURG 5 0 AND I BELIEVE dunfermline PUMPED 3 TOP ENGLISH SIDES 1 AFTER THE OTHER might be wrong , but no cheating or very little .SIR DUMPED MURRAYS NINE IN A ROW LETS GET SERIOUS .
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Rangers 9 in a row is tainted.they are only going back as far as 1998 because that was the year the spl started.wouldnt be suprised if it was going on from day 1
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17 May 2012 17:12:15
we did a wrongy...no doubt in my mind but murrays getting off scot free and he is th eculprit along with the arse smellers.....i personally feel we should be punished by the sfa ...but the appeal yesterday to keep everyone happy should have invoved the charge or punishment being upheld money wise (160.000 fine) but the transfer embargo should have been reduced to 6 months then everyone would have been happy...bad sfa decision = bad people......deecee
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It was rangers in the dock not the SFA!
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Wrong deecee ,only Rangers fans want that,most like me think the old boys at the SFA let you off very lightly but and there is always a but
Rangers is a former football club. They played their last game on Sunday 13 May 2012 at Perth.
We’ve been predicting this for months, and if you think the revelations and shocks are over, think again. Empires will crumble, oceans will dry and galaxies will collide next week. The surface has only been scratched.
Dannybhoy
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This is nonsense, punishments are not designed to keep the recipient of the punishment happy !!
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You might say Murray's getting off scot-free but if this BBC Scotland documentary The Man Who Sold the Jerseys is going to expose what I've heard it is going to expose then that might quickly change.
Phone bugging brought down the most powerful man in the world in the 1970s, President Nixon and just look at the impact that Rupert Murdoch, News International and his NOTW experienced because of phone hacking.
Stripping the man of his title might be the least of his worries.
BB
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Don't Murray will get his ,that why he's trying to get the panorama program blocked cos its him not Rangers in the firing line , no be a sir much longer
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Rangers already have a transfer embargo in place and will remain so until you exit Administration, so banning you for only 6 months would mean no actual punishment
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I don't understand how Rangers could be allowed to sign players while they stole owe clubs for players. That is not fair on the other clubs. Perhaps once Rangers pay those clubs they should be allowed to sign players again?
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I don't understand how Rangers could be allowed to sign players while they stole owe clubs for players. That is not fair on the other clubs. Perhaps once Rangers pay those clubs they should be allowed to sign players again?
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It wasn't the SFA, not at all, it was two High Court Judges and a QC, neutrals, that did it.... Investigated Rangers, punished Rangers and refused the appeal. Not SFA guys at all. And it was all very lenient.
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How could BOS lend DM £900m without any chance of getting it back? Lloyds said they would never have made the loans.
Was the BOS boss neighbours in Edinburgh with DM?
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Why are RFC(IA) fans blaming the SFA?
The original decision and the appeal were heard by a senior QC and a senior judge looking at the SFA rules. They decided there was wrong doing and they decided the level of punishment according to those rules.
Without fear or favour! Face up to what was done by the club and move on.
All this lashing out at everyone else is SO childish. The fans group leaders just sound like playground bullies.
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Rangers still owe money to other clubs for players,, u think Real Madrid paid Man Utd 80 mill for Ronaldo in 1 lump sum? happens everywhere.As for the embargo,, fine was i reckon too leniant,, embargo could/should have been suspended for 6/12 months
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"Rangers still owe money to other clubs for players,, u think Real Madrid paid Man Utd 80 mill for Ronaldo in 1 lump sum? happens everywhere.As for the embargo,, fine was i reckon too leniant,, embargo could/should have been suspended for 6/12 months"
This daft argument keeps cropping up on here. There is a difference between paying in installments and not paying at all! {Ed014's Note - I have been told that part of the Ronaldo deal was that all money was paid upfront.It is tied into the clubs debt and bonds and a certain amount has to be kept in the bank.
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Correct you can blame sdm but ultimately we can blame the banks for letting him run up all that debt as well
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17 May 2012 17:10:13
charles green set to be another craig whyte and rumoured to be selling off the big three : naismith mcgreggor and davis
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That should just about recoup the 8.5M
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And how to you propose that we keep them? With what money?
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I think we should be selling/releasing almost everyone, reduce the wage bill to minimumal amounts until we have sorted our debts, then in a few seasons reinvest making our club back to the formidable force we once were.
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But we're not going to get 8m for all them, and that's how much Green is offering for a CVA. I'd say nice try, better luck next time timmy etc. but it really wasn't a nice try... at all. Muzz
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Is that the formidable force you became by not paying your taxes? or the mediocre force you would have been without cheating?
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£5.75 million for the three. They have release clauses in their contracts which were added when they negotiated their pay cuts.
Mac
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They could use the warchest.
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Of course we are.
do you think they reduced their wages out of love for the club?
its in their new contracts.
good riddance. please take whitts with you, the thought of him taking 20k+ a week out our club makes me ill.
we'll play with a team of kids and develop them, short term pain long term gain.
having another 140 years is the most important thing, players come and go.
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Will the poceeds of player sales not go to the creditors eg HMRC who must be aware of the approximate value?
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As much as I'm probably this site's biggest sceptic of Green, I wouldn't blame him for these guys going.
After the Whyte fiasco I'd guess they would always be on their way. And Duff and Phelp's incompetence certainly didn't help either.
Personally, I'll wish them all the best for their service to the club.
BB
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Players wont be sold until we are out of admin i.e the creditors have had what was acceptable from the cva pot
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Aye aye cap'n the war chest indeed. Unfortunately in this case I fear our ship is a tanker with captain green at the helm. It's the final twist of the knife by Craig the bhoy whyte. Hats off to the guy though the patsy has found himself his own patsy.
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Players won't be sold until we are out of admin??. And just how can you afford to pay them £25k week?
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They have to go there isnt a penny to pay their wages. currently operating @ a 10 million a year loss, we all know this
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17 May 2012 16:59:43
The SFA claimed it was right to fine Rangers and impose the transfer embargo because the actions of Whyte were the responsibility of the club... Then why did they also fine whyte on his own for what they felt were separate issues?. Surely if the club is responsible for what he did while he was at the helm, it must include everything he did, if it doesn't then why say the club is guilty by the fact he was the owner for some things but not guilty for others when he was still the owner.
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You ,like thousands of other rangers fans, are still not getting it are you ? Whyte was, and probably still is , the owner of RFC ( IA ). Whyte rangers, rangers whyte - is is all the same in the eyes of the law. A senior judge and a top QC have explained all this to the public at large. Can you not understand that ?
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Whytes actions : £13m PAYE benefitted Rangers FC (IA) it didn't benefit Whyte. The Ticketus money benefitted Rangers FC (IA) by paying off Lloyds. It didn't benefit Whyte.
Why should Whyte be punished for Rangers' received benefits? When is Rangers FC (IA) paying back the £13m to the British people?
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Remember bernard tapie lol
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Whytes actions : £13m PAYE benefitted Rangers FC (IA) it didn't benefit Whyte. The Ticketus money benefitted Rangers FC (IA) by paying off Lloyds. It didn't benefit Whyte.
Why should Whyte be punished for Rangers' received benefits? When is Rangers FC (IA) paying back the £13m to the British people?
I never realised that Craig Whyte posted on here.
Craig Whyte has never in his entire life did anything that benefited anyone other than Craig Whyte. How else do you explain the millionaire lifestyle
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Because it benefits senior board members financially to fix the league a point not missed by William Hill who have cancelled their sponsorship (bookies and publicly fixing a race have never been friends) hopefully the rest of the business world will see the light and cancel too with SKY not wanting to be tainted predict a hard time for the SFA
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Its called Corporate governance and as a company the guys in senior positions have a responsibility to question anything which they feel is wrong.
Can anyone tell the fans WHO challenged SDM during his tenure. Many of these individuals would be savvy enough to know that what they were involved in was at best debatable and at worst (as HMRC would have us believe) illegal.
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Any tainting of titles and competition was done by Rangers when the club elected to stop paying taxes, and therefore the blame for it lies squarely at the gates of Ibrox.
If so many Rangers fans don't think its fair to blame the club for the actions of Whyte on club, then why are these same people looking to boycott away games to punish the fans of other teams whose owners haven't yet done anything against Rangers apart from being cheated on the park and diddled in the payments owed to them?
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Individuals can be punished by SFA the same as clubs. what is the problem there?
whyte was penalised for the way he bought rangers in the first place. after that its all the club's doing because he IS (was) Rangers
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It's simple, CW is Rangers and Rangers is CW, just as SDM was rangers and Rangers was SDM, that what is known as being the owner and the buck stops here
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17 May 2012 15:33:50
Why don't we just accept the punishment handed down by the SFA and get on with surviving for next season.
If we get ourselves sorted then not all of the players will leave, some may and that will bring money into the club which will help fill the black hole that we have.
Then next season when we are free to sign players we should be in a better financial position to go out and strengthen the squad. When we 1st went into administration everyone was saying as long as the club survived they wouldn't mind missing out on the league for the next few seasons. Well this is our chance, take our medicine, move on from this debacle and come out the other end a better, stronger club.
Ps I'm pretty sure that we can still get loan signings as Portsmouth were able to do this last season. (not unless the SFA change the rules again!)
The Pilot!
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Absolute bang on pilot , we have to move on or else we will make things worse, the fans have been fantastic so far but if things like boycotts etc take place , we will lose total respect......
craig+babybear
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About time - the voice of sanity! I agree completely - stop moaning about the injustice of things, move on and get on with building for the future. We're in the wrong, have been caught and deserve to be punished.
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The SFA will not give player licenses to anyone joining Rangers in the next 11 months.
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Cant do loan signings unless emergency ones plus English have different rules, SFA aren't making up the rules the punishments were up to including expulsion or suspension, they chose the embargo so we just have to take it
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No loans either. Not a rule change just the rules. Loans still need to be registered.
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I agree 100 percent, try and keep our main players firstly then give the young boys a year and kick on next season. All this threats from the fans when there might still be a vote if newco required?
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That last post is absolutely right . You are not doing yourselves any favours with all these threats. The SFA are completely in the right here . Did you read the 24 K word report ? I did. Every rangers fan should take the time to read it . rangers got off very lightly here. Remember , UEFA and FIFA are watch all this debacle very closely . If rangers push their luck , I can see them being suspended or possibly thrown out of the league !
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If found guilty of the EBTs the next punishment will be thrown out of the league. Just the tip af a titanic iceberg.
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A sensible post finally.
Accept the punishments and move on.
Things can only get better
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17 May 2012 15:14:38
charles green meeting with sfl and spl at hampden today - chris mclaughlin, twitter.
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And! Is this so he can reveal the mystery 20! or after the failed appeal mistery 12!
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So the one thing we know is that Charles Green is not meeting with sfl or spl today!
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17 May 2012 14:22:23
Given the appeal has been rejected, who thinks that Charles Green & Co will back out of the deal. . . Worth noting that they are still in the 'exclusivity period' and not actually the owners as yet
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Charles green and his group do own rangers, they have already bought craig whytes shares for £2.
the only thing to be decided now is if it is a cva route or a newco route. this will depend on the creditors, and we should know this by the 6th of june as im sure i read the preposal will be with them by monday,
mr green has already said his deal doesnt allow him to back out,
so they will own rangers either way.
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According to Duff and Phelps Charles Green has signed a irrevocable, binding contract to the sale of the club.
There was no preferred bidder status.
So the club IS his
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I dont know,but,given the way green was talking about a war chest for ally to spend a day or two before the appeal for the embargo,i think newco is the plan.i doubt that helped our case very much.
drumlad
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Can't blame anyone other than Rangers for that. Mr Green knew all about these sanctions when he came in with his group offer - he would be mad to continue - but then again, it has been reported that he said he was mad to buy Rangers, so who knows - but, I think that, it will all crash down eventually.
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We need to know who they are CG's background isn't glittered with success. I'm worried that perhaps six or ten of the twenty are possibly less presentable than him, as he's their 'clean' frontman.
On the appeal......Livingston got booted to Div3 just for being in admin! We're in admin and didn't pay£13m PAYE, NI and VAT. It takes about a dozen people in a company to achieve that.... Also Whyte didn't make a penny, it was all benefit to Rangers FC to keep us going. Let's be honest, it's a light punishment. Let's move on and clear remaining issues with decency.
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I agree! And not looking good if CVA doesn’t’ happen as per this article-
The former Sheffield United chief executive's bid to buy the club cannot be formally accepted until creditors vote on a proposed company voluntary agreement (CVA) on June 6.
Jon S
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They wont pull out, my opinion is that it can only benefit any buyer because it means they dont' have to worry about spending money on buying players immediatly and can get everything else sorted at the club before the following season starts
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Green is looking for European football. We know that Rangers is out of Europe next year and possibly 3 years on liquidation.
However, there is a new rumour that Rangers would get a three year ban from UEFA on the years they qualify for Europe. So we would have to win s Euro slot to be banned in the next season. We wouldn't serve the ban in a season we didn't win entry. That would be pointless punishment anyway.
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Do you think a guy like Green would bind himself to a sinking ship? Of course he will have an escape clause, he will walk in 7 days.
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To the poster saying the Euro ban only applies if we qualify first, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, there is scaremongering, then there's disinformation but what you said is in a league of it's own altogether. The only reason there is a 3 year rule is because UEFA require 3 years of continuous, audited accounts which we can produce over a 3 year period regardless of league position. I appreciate you did say it was a rumourso it's not a dig at you personally but to seriously entertain that is just ridiculous.
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Irrevocable, binding contract! what absolute tosh! ALL contracts are revocable as it's only a matter of small print & who has the smartest lawyers, put in simple terms they can back out if their due diligence shows they have been given incorrect or misleading information by the auditors, that's why as we speak, their people will be all over the books like a cheap suit looking for any discrepancies which could give them a get out.
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I think his offer has been accepted but he can still walk away (he does own club not the assets), agree with most post deserve punishment and move on, would like to add whyte is skint and think he was depending on euro money coming in, should never have been sold it in 1st place totally murrays fault.
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Of course he can walk away. Everyone has freedom to do what they want. He hasn't handed over the £8.5m yet and might not do so. That might result in a court case if he has a contract with D&P but the club would liquidate and there would be no recourse to Green!
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At last . Some decent and articulate comments . I agree that Green would have some sort of get-out clause . He bought the shares off Whyte not knowing the level of debt ? This from a venture capitalist ? Of course he has a get-out !
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The Green knight is pretty informed and knows all probabilities.
(1) RFC with player restriction for a year
(2) Newco (liquidation)
(3) Newco Hybrid (liquidation)
He will be able to work with any of the three options and resell rangers in a couple of years.
The only problem will the EBTs, double contracts and wether UEFA will except Newco and what penalties they may set.
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Green and Whyte are in this together. They stretch it to the day before the creditors meeting, pull out, liquidation. Green, Whyte and Duff & Phelps are con artist asset strippers. Whyte pays Green and the shadow investors a fee offshore somewhere and Duff & Phelps get their fat fees. Simples!
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Can't understand why they ever came in! It Seems the twenty is now down to five or six! 18/5/2012
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17 May 2012 14:15:38
so if we are a newco and the spfa are correct and no players transfer across, and the spl vote to keep us, then by 7 June 2012 we could still be in the league with no players and no ability to sign anyone over 18.
total joke and not thought out...
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It's for Rangers and other Clubs who follow their bad example to do the thinking! The SFA and the SPL are there to evenhandedly implement the rules as laid down and agreed by all members if they are broken by 'any' member Club
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You will be able to extend the current players contracts(if any decide to stay) you will be able to recruit your youth players to the first team(so you will have a team) please do keep up....
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The SFA statement said that Rangers have OVER FORTY PLAYERS. I can see some of the big players leaving, but even if the entire first eleven were to be sold, there will always be enough left to field a team. The real concern is, how competitive will that team be?
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You have FORTY signed pro players.Where do you get this no player thing?.........green jhedi
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A newco CAN sign players as its a new football club
jeezo
BluePeter
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Simply, Rangers broke the SFA rules and why they should be treated any different to any other club baffles me ?. We keep hearing that the Scottish Premier League couldn't survive without them, but hey wait a minute that wasn't a consideration by thier adoring fands a few years back when they were trying to get into the English Premier League it was a "stuf you" attitude to the rest of the SPL up here, then oh how the shoe is on the other foot now. You broke SFA rules and now, like any other club you should be made to pay for it, why oh why should you be tereated any different. Maybe they should add another rule to the SFA handbook stating that any mis-managemant of a football club breaching SFA rules will be severly dealt with, unless that club concerned is Rangers as they are the saviours of the Scottish Premier League. It is a total joke and Rangers are the butt of it.
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Rangers are being treated differently though, name another SPL club to be given a 12 month transfer embargo? Whole thing stinks of Liewell and his puppet Regan.
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Thought a newco keep your history and tradition can't have it both ways and players don't have to transfer registration so you will need to buy a whole new squad when your stars walk away
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"Rangers are being treated differently though, name another SPL club to be given a 12 month transfer embargo? Whole thing stinks of Liewell and his puppet Regan."
'Liewell' would have had you expelled if he had any influence on the tribunal. Do you want to go back to the panel and say "hey this embargo isnt on the list" and they can say "ok we'll kick you out of the league cos that IS on the list"
Take your medicine and just be glad its not a suppository!
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If a Newco wishes entry to the SPL it will need to take punishments with it. If it accepts status as a new club in the 3rd then it would be fair to drop the embargo. I think that would satisfy the argment on not haing it both ways. As for the argument that nobody else in the SPL has had such an embargo, the truth is nobody else has behaved quite like rangers! Lets be clear, the punishemnt is NOT for being in administration or for having debts. It is for willful tax evasion to the benefit of RFC to the tune of £13M which it used for running costs. Had it paid these it would most certainly had to reduce its playing squad and therefore reduced its ability to compete. This is arguably cheating other SPL clubs, particulalry the 3rd placed team who miss out on SPL TV money as a result and, had Rangers not had a ban from UEFA, would also be missing out on CL involvement. The mentoin of Motherwell is pretty spurious. They behaved very badly IMO so are fortunate. That said, they were the forst of a number of clubs to start the admin process which caused football authorities to put procedures in plance (eg 10pt deduction). If you want to see harsh look at the penalties given to Livingston and Dundee - two more recent examples than Motherwell.
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Embargo does not apply to newco
applies to Rangers FC only
Govan United will be a fresh setup with no debts to the rest of the SFL/SPL
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17 May 2012 13:57:09
Here's a point ...
So what happens if McGregor,
Whittaker, or Wallace get injured
whilst on international /SFA duty in
America, & were obviously not
allowed to add to our squad to
compensate for this outcome.
Should Rangers or the players not
make a stand now and pull out of
squad. Harsh I know on the individual
who wants to play for his country
but needs must.
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Who's needs? It is an honor to represent ones country please do not, in the name of sport, discourage anyone from doing so. You should be ashamed for even raising the possibility of players doing so.
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You have 40+ proffesional players in your squad. They could be replaced if they got injured albeit by a nobody but look at Tony Watt
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I fully agree that all Rangers players from under 17 lever should make themselves unavailable for the Scottish National Team. They are aiding an organisation that is actually hindering their ability to progress and be a success in this game.
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They will have insurance to cover wages,but that is a good point..........green jhedi
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Maybe once you pay Lee Wallace transfer fee you can discuss it further
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Very good point raised. Even without embargo Celtic, Motherwell etc would hurt without top players. Compensation insurance will not buy replacements probably just cover wages and treatment. And, in Rangers case, they could not go like for like if over 18 is injured.
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One could argue that by imposing the ban the SFA are helping their career by giving them a chance to play competitive football at both domestic and international levels
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They won't be at Ibrox for long anyway, Greens going to sell them.
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17 May 2012 10:17:06
Is there any friendly games confirmed yet ? Ulster bear..
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Nope, ally reckons we will be staying at home for pre season. I think playing championship n premier league teams would give our youngsters good experience. Coz lets face it, our punishment stands. We will lose our best players. Hopefully we can keep 1 or 2. Aluko n naisy for me. Then start again. But I very much doubt that will happen either
B bear
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Yes some friendlies have been arranged east Stirling Annan athletic pollock juniors and more Tba
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I agree those are the 2 we have to try and keep. Mcculloch will probably stay as well to babysit, as well as Boca. Think McGregor, Davis, Lafferty Whittaker and Wallace at least will go, so just hope we have a couple of decent young full backs waiting in the wings
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I am sorry but I can't see any advantage for championship or premier league teams coming up to play essentially Rangers under 19' side even with Aluko and Naismith in the side - unless they felt the need to help the needy.
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Is it possible for aluko to renew his contract with the embargo in place or any player or can rangers not renew any players contract ?... Bm
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Is it possible for aluko to renew his contract with the embargo in place or any player or can rangers not renew any players contract ?... Bm
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We are still allowed to re-new contracts, only banned from registering new players.
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17 May 2012 12:01:42
Can anyone clarify. Is there an actual rule in place that clearly states that certain actions merit a transfer embargo? I mean i knew a club in administration has a transfer embargo imposed on them but unaware of any other reason why this sanction would be enforced.
J1985
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The rules on sanctions are not exhaustive but essentially allow for the decision makers to use what they consider an appropriate sanction for any action or inaction that falls between listed sanctions. I hope that helps.
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Because wee didnot pay our taxes or pay for some off the players last year angry bear watp
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I don't know either but that seems to be the core of D&P's arguement.
On the other hand, D&P need to be a little careful with that one as there is also no rule that a newco can join where an oldco left off. This is new territory and getting pernickety isn't going to help anyone.
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Transfer embargo was one option another option was total expulsion, The SFA have gone for the more lenient option what other punishment could they give? a fine that wont be paid in full as SFA would just become another creditor getting pennies to the pound if anything at all.
DB77
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Don't think so. The actual punishment for Rangers' behavior is explusion from the league. They thought that was a bit harsh, being rangers and all that, so they reduced the sentence. If you think Rangers should appeal on the grounds that the punishment is not listed, go ahead. I don't think you want to ask for the punishment that is listed, do you?
Al
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Put quit simply NO although the transfer embargo is justifiable when a football club is in admin. this is simply a case of LEAGUE FIXING for financial gain by members of the SFA board maximum sentance that was in there power was £100k+vat and hopefully the appropriate papers are on way to FIFA as we speak to prove SFA have breached sporting integrity
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So what do you prefer then...expulsion?, the option is there for that.
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Don't know the answer to that one pal but I know the name of somebody who will know.
Lord Carloway.
He's s a Senator of the College of Justice, appointed by the Queen no less, he's a judge of the Supreme Courts of Scotland, and he sits in the High Court of Justiciary and the Inner House of the Court of Session.
And spending any more RFF money in challenging his decisions is absolutely futile and I would think only make matters worse no matter what Duff & Phelps or Sandy Jardine or anybody from RM or FF says.
I don't like the decision either but will just have to live with it.
BB
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To clarify - there was not action in place fr an embargo.
BUT, the crime was far more than they could deal with but not enough to suspend the club from Scottish football and so to action a punishment that fitted the crime they placed the transfer embargo on the club.
Now if the club take it through the courts or go to eufa as suggested there coulb be harsher punishment handed out like banning from Scottish football and world football handed down from EUFA/FIFA.
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As far as know the sanction has been enforced due to the non-payment of tax paye & vat. and my theory is that the sfa have slapped the transfer embargo & the 160.000 fine because they dont want us to be relegated to the 3rd division because the sfa know how much revenue they will lose in spl. now gers fans are planning to boycott away games as of next season.
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"Put quit simply NO although the transfer embargo is justifiable when a football club is in admin. this is simply a case of LEAGUE FIXING for financial gain by members of the SFA board maximum sentance that was in there power was £100k+vat and hopefully the appropriate papers are on way to FIFA as we speak to prove SFA have breached sporting integrity"
Maximum sentance was expulsion. Why are Rangers fans not graping that this is the absolute best outcome they could have hoped for.
The tribunal were allowed to impose a fitting sanction if the list of suggested sanctions were not appropriate.
This is a huge let off for RFC yet the fans are taking it as an attack. I guess that because they are the people they shouldn't be punished?
Ed what are your thoughts on the punishment imposed? I know Ed032(?) looked into it and changed his original opinion that it was harsh after seeing the options the tribunal had at their disposal. {Ed014's Note - There isn't an Ed032.I think Rangers have been lucky considering they could have faced expulsion.
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The maximum punishment was £100k for EACH offence, so you could have had a £300k-£500k fine (I've lost count of the number of rules you have broken!) and like the embargo, the likes of which you are still under for entering Administration, is the more lenient punishment you could have faced.
As for the SFA breaching sporting integrity, Rangers killed that off years ago!
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So the embargo has just been plucked out of thin air then. The 160,000 will contribute to Craig Leven's pay off when he fails to take Scotland to Brazil no doubt. I mean this money won't go to the other clubs in the league for them to put into youth development or to arrange a pre season tour.....it's going straight to the SFA. They haven't been wronged by Rangers so why should they gain 160,000 from us?? If they decided to put a transfer cap on us for a season and insist on all transfers being paid in full then fair enough but an embargo just stinks!!!
As for them kicking us out. Do me a favour. The game will die....SIMPLE!! Listen to Steve Lomas, Stuart McCall, Danny Lennon ect,ect. Without the old firm Scottish football has nothing to offer. No product means you can kiss goodbye to any TV deal and no sponcer in their right mind would pump money into such a poor product.
J1985
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Put quit simply NO although the transfer embargo is justifiable when a football club is in admin. this is simply a case of LEAGUE FIXING for financial gain by members of the SFA board maximum sentance that was in there power was £100k+vat and hopefully the appropriate papers are on way to FIFA as we speak to prove SFA have breached sporting integrity
go on appeal to UEFA and FIFA see what happened to Sion, the panel could have suspended or expelled Rangers so they got off lightly IMO, remember that the panel and appeal judge and QC on them, think they might know a bit more about the law and integrity than Duff and Duffer
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Ed014's Note - There isn't an Ed032.I think Rangers have been lucky considering they could have faced expulsion.
Sorry Ed I cant remember the Ed's number. He was moderating this page and initially thought that the punishment was harsh but he looked into the matter (like RFC fans seem to be incapable of) and was shocked that they had gotten off so lightly.
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17 May 2012 11:51:56
I might be the only one thinking this, but i think that we should take our one year ban, struggle for a year and come back stronger. E$ven though it was Whyte/Murray who have shafted us, they were rangers at the time and we were all very happy to sit and watch all these expensive players. I for one will be going to the games as per, and i will remain a lyoal supporter of both rangers AND scotland. Lets take our medicine and grow up. what is done is done.
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I agree, fellow bears stop acting like that mob from the east end with their conspircay stories, take our medicine and come back stronger
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A supporter of scotland (sfa) are you having a laugh mate. The rangers players should refuse to play for the national team. As once again they have taken a right good kick at Glasgow rangers. Gary W.A.T.P
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With you 100% on that. I wish D&P would just let it go, really. Otherwise it becomes a "my lawyer is bigger than yours" thing. Which is embarrassing as well as expensive.
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I agree. Let's just accept the embargo and try and concentrate on keeping the club alive and hang onto as many of the better players as we can.
By the way anyone know any 17yr old superstar strikers ?
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You might be right about taking our medidince, but someone made an interesting point that if our players were injured on international duty, we couldn't buy any replacements during the transfer window. I'd love the players to withdraw & cite this reason.
As for the legal stuff, have we actually won anything in court since D&P started contesting everything & anything?
Are we using "My Cousin Vinny"?
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Even better idea, why not go round every club and snap up their best under 18 player for next to nowt and get it right up them...Catweazle-talkingbone.
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Totally agree if we can keep the squad we have (unlikely) we wont be far away and if the team only has to worry about football we should hopefully have a better level of consiscity
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Well said mate. Spot on.
Intelligent well reasoned post. That particular issue is over. More hurdles in front of us without going backwards.
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"A supporter of scotland (sfa) are you having a laugh mate. The rangers players should refuse to play for the national team. As once again they have taken a right good kick at Glasgow rangers. Gary W.A.T.P"
A right good kicking would have been expulsion. YWTP.
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Don't agree about the Scotland thing, I am finished with them, but I do think we should get on with the embargo. We whould not sell any major players promote from within and if we can get a couple of loan deals for some up and coming Premiership players we will be ok. With a wee bit of luck we could puch Celtic next season lets be fair if it wasn't for Naisy's injury we would have been closer to them this year - the seige menatality will kick in and we will do ok. Not saying we would win the league but we would defo get 2nd. And as for Europe we could still get a few friendlies at Ibrox during the season with a few biggish teams that are looking for games during the winter i.e Scandanavian teams or teams that have been put out of Europe.
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Gary who is this team glasgow rangers u speak of ???
Please enlighten me coz there no such club FACT
Hate it when fans dont even know our name
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I think some people forget we are scottish and most of us are proud to follow our team and our country as will the players who have the ability to represent club and country. What will be will be, soak up every blow and take it on the chin and when it comes time for the SFA to look to us for assistance then shuv it right up their erse. Follow Follow 4eva
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I agree with that as its only right to accept ban as we done wrong ,we bought players and did not pay for them but still used them,also everyone else in life gets punished for doing wrong.
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Exactly . Let's move on. Get our house in order. Get some new owners. The quicker we get past these troubles and onto a sound footing. The better. Let's concentrate on getting out of admin and on the right road
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When we where sitting and watching all these expensive players, did you know what Murray was doing in terms of contract & EBT's? if you did why didn't you bring it to the fore? why didn't you let everyone know what was happening so we could have done something about it at the time and not let it get to this. you take the medicine, I'll pass when it comes to me.
We're not asking to get away scott free, we are asking for a bit of understanding on the effect it's having on the support and the people at the club who have done nothing wrong.
You take the path of least resistance, others believe we have a reason for our stance, one shared by many in Ibrox.
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Hail hail m8,great post i was actually starting to think i lived in the twilight zone,look at what yous done it needed punished,every other team would have gone down what would become known as the RANGERS route,cheats need punished(ed what do you think?) to original poster i hope your team survives for fans like yourself ,just try and get rid of the WATP brigade as wee try and get rid of our bigots to,as they hinder more than help
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How can Rangers possably "come back stonger" ?? u have been livin above your means for years, u will never again have those sort of funds available to you, so there IS NO CHANCE you will come back stonger, rosey glasses, take off the blinkers pal
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17 May 2012 11:51:39
Hi guys, can anyone advise when the SPL investigation into the EBTs and double contracts will be finalised? And what severity of punishment is possible under the SPL rules?
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I think that in every game that we have played with an improperly registered player we are deemed to have lost 3 - 0. Following, any points gained will be wiped away. Titles and trophies will be taken back. I think the same applies to UEFA comps too. Perhaps ED can clarify this for us. {Ed001's Note - if players are found to be registered incorrectly, that is the standard punishment.}
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I forgot all about that.
Jeez and that's in addition to the SPL NewCo sanctions being debated by all the clubs. I guess if SPL send us to Div3 then the one year transfer ban still stands there also.
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When the SPL started the investigation into double contracts that's when the shredder lorry turned up at Ibrox, almost to the hour.
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Yes first reply is correct. It's not that difficult to recalculate the tables, a high School maths pupil could do it in a weekend. Another issue is that all the prizeminies will have to repaid, hence, SPL cannot award second place prize money for last season.
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So it's possible Rangers could be deducted a load of points, relegated instead of Dunfermline and all the moves to keep Rangers in the SPL could be irrelevant?
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If every game is 0-3 the consequence is relegation on successive seasons...
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David Murray should be behind bars, along with a few others, if double contracts etc are proved
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How can he be jailed if it's not a criminal offence, just a football offence?
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Criminal tax evasion, it's how Elliot Ness got Al Capone.
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17 May 2012 11:51:03
If Rangers fans boycott away games then surely away fans will do the same to you.
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Slight difference in outcome tho, away fans boycott rangers will mean like maybe 500/600 max away fans not coming to ibrox apart from when celtic come,
rangers fans boycott games will mean several thousand fans not paying the increased price of £25/£28 going to games,
therfore the other teams will feel it worse,. i dont agree with a boycott at all but even i can see that basic maths of the situation,
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Aye and we,ll miss 200 motherwell,200 dundee hibs,50 ross county and if the 7,000 bheasts don,t come we,ll just fill it ourselves. airdrie bear
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Ha oh we will be gutted other than cfc fans dint come to ibrox 300 max an if cfc fans dont turn up it will still be a sell out
So pipe down an toddle off
TB
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Other than Celtic other clubs have small groups of supporters don't think they will make much financial affect on gers overall income
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It wouldn't make a difference, apart from OF games, other teams have awful away attendances.
RFCJ
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That would make sense if it wasn't so laughable. The other clubs can't fill their own stadiums on match day. But threaten a boycott to away games to Ibrox that they don't attend in any great number anyway. Hilarious
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Fans going on strike, sounds laughable. Either you want to see your team play or you don't. When Rangers cheer on their team away from home they really make their presence felt. The team benefits from that.
But don't go if you don't want to.
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Other fans boycotting rangers will have little effect, as a Celtic fan I know that in total outside rangers only 4000 away fans attended Celtic park all season that's less than 0.5% (being very generous to away fans) so Rangers will be in same position
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As far as i know, the fans of Elgin, Clyde, East Stirling & Peterhead have voted to boycott all games at Ibrox.
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Here's hope you lot botcott Paradise...save us a fortune!! wont need to replace toilets twice a year>>>>
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Who cares about the away fans, we'll still fill ibrox with home support.
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Thats right Stranrear and Stirling Albion etc will carry a big support .
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Other teams have s**t attendances at home never mind away support (apart from Celtic) wont hurt us if they stay away be we can cripple them.
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Then people like myself who live in england can get a ticket then. RANGERS till i die.
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If Rangers fans are going to boycott away games then surely that makes the voting on a NewCo easy as the threat of reduced income is nulified if you are going to boycott the games anyway?!
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When you are struggling to make top 6 ( if your lucky) theyll be plenty seats to fill when crowds fall to 20,000, then only the real supporters show up
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When you are struggling to make top 6 ( if your lucky) theyll be plenty seats to fill when crowds fall to 20,000, then only the real supporters show up
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No wonder people don't like Rangers with fans talking about trying to cripple other teams.
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The boycott won't work, all the fans that go the now will stop buying tickets so the people who want to go but usually can't now can. And even if no one turns up to the games you are only hurting your own team, no traveling support so no 12th man.
St Mikey
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17 May 2012 11:43:20
Instead of protesting outside Hampden, why don't we do it inside?
If rangers fans take over for the next international then the sfa would have egg on their face in front of the worlds press. Massive protest during the game. I understand we would be giving them ticket money but if no programmes, merchandise and food was purchased inside this would cause major problems. f
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Never really thought this one through eh?..........green jhedi
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You have no shame, what a pathetic lot say you are sorry and take whats coming ffs
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You lot are a total and utter disgrace.....to Scotland, to football and to humanity. Why don't you try PAYING your bills and taxes and show a little bit of DIGNITY by accepting your justified and lenient punishment and furthermore why not just say SORRY to all the other fair minded law abiding and tax paying clubs in Scottish football for dragging the game into the gutter and making us the laughing stock of world football?? Perhaps if you did this instead of all your denials and threats and arrogance then maybe, just maybe, you'd get shown a wee bit of support and sympathy from the rest of us
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What part of punishment for breaking rules dont you get?
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Im rangers through and through but this is shocking! when it comes to supporting the national team who gives a f*** about the sfa?! support your country NO MATTER WHAT!
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As a rangers fan i think this has to be the most ridiculous thing ive ever read. you need to get a grip of yourself, only thing that would achieve is a riot and more bad press for us because of scum like you..grow up!
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17 May 2012 06:25:46
Scottish foorball what a joke.
Kiss goodbye to the £80m unsigned t.v. deal spl cause there is no way sky are going to pay that for a league that's rigged for one team and one team only to win.
Rangers will now take this matter to the cas and that will result in Scottish clubs being banned from Europe next season, Uefa ban any country for taking part in European footnall if any club sues it's member association
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Load of pish mate
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Footnall will be the first to suffer
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Great lets make ourselves even more hated than we already are, we might hese clubs to vote us back into the SPL but what will we do go and get them kicked out of europe because we can't take our punishment.
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The SFA seem intent to kill Scottish football by punishing Rangers as much as possible. The diddy teams desperately want us to be handicapped, yet want to take the 50% of cash generated by Rangers for the SPL. I say to hell with them all - lets go to Division 3 and end it all. When Scottish Football dissolves, i bet the Premiership will take Rangers for sure and the dinosaurs at the SFA and the diddy sides can watch the part-time SPL be 'contested' between Celtic and Celtic reserves LIVE on BBC ALBA.
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Sion did worse, they took UEFA to court and as far as i`m aware, the Swiss are still in European compititions!
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Hmmm, where to start. Sky have already have a contract with the SPL, this contract came with conditions. If certain conditions are not met this contract CANNOT be withdrawn BUT there can be changes i.e money, games shown etc. Neil Doncaster has already said that there is NO condition with regards to 4 Old Firm games a season. A condition like that cannot be made in a league that splits into two.
The only Scottish club that will be banned from Europe next season is Rangers. Any disagreement between an association and a member club has NO bearing on the other clubs in said association.
I will put the OP down to anger and frustration however it is about time that you realise the only people to blame for the situation you currently find your team in is the team itself. Financial mismanagement has been going on at Rangers for years so this could have happened at any time. Take the hit and move on. The transfer embargo will expire for the start of next season, by which time you will be able to compete in Europe again. If you manage to hang onto atleast 4 or 5 of your better players you will still be good enough to finish in a European slot.
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I think you will find it is Rangers that are the joke and people like you make them so. True fans don't sopout the insane drivel you are coming out with about rigged leagues. Sue the SFA! you are having a laugh
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Like it or lump it mate. The league has been rigged for numerous years with rangers having a financial advantage over all clubs in the spl. Winning titles with players that where bought with money that wasn't there to be spent. I can't believe rangers fans are pointing the blame to everyone but themselves. Weren't complaint during the successfull years that yous had Questions weren't being asked where is all this money coming from etc. It was all honky dory in the glory years. Now it's time to suffer the consequences
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Utter fantasy mate,do u remember f.c. Sion and the long running battle with the Swiss fa? Sion took their complaint all the way via eufa and the cas and I don't recall any Swiss teams being banned from European competition,incidentally they got nowhere as they were found to be cheats-ring any bells,sandheid
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Here we go again! When are you people actually gonna take responsibility for what your club has been doing over the past few years. You's are in the wrong, DEAL WITH IT! You's owe money to clubs all over europe because uz havn't paid for signing or borrowing their players. As a result the SFA have rightly banned you's from doing it anymore.Uz even have the brass neck to appeal the measly fine that came with it. I think you's are getting off lightly and I also think uz will recieve no more sanctions which is appalling. Being uncompetetive for one lousy year wont do uz any real harm. No doubt uz will wangle a CVA and leave the creditors hanging and save your cheating skins. Time to man up and take responsibility and stop with the pathetic idle threats, absolute disgrace!
Drew
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Get over it, corruption lise with Rangers, as soon as you ascept this you will feel better. Its RANGERS fault, not some big boy who did it then ran away. getting bored reading this sort of crap now. jog on.
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UEFA only threatened to ban Swiss clubs from Europe if their FA didn't deduct Sion points for the games inelligible players featured.
If Rangers take their case to CAS Scottish clubs will still play in Europe and if you lose the SFA may be instructed to cancel your membership
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Rotten Rangers threatening to destroy everyone because they are being punished quite lightly.
Bye bye. UEFA knows such a move would be cynical and spiteful and only punish Rangers more harshly.
Ciao.
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I'm getting fed up with all this crap about Rangers will do this and Rangers will do that, you're team is as guilty as sin, if SKY pull out, so what? every-time someone from Ibrox threatens it only caused more harm than good (see appeal case) the hole is getting deeper and i'm sorry to say posts like yours are uniting more people against the once mighty gers, at the start of this mess i wanted Rangers to survive as long as they paid the price for their crimes, now i want them closed for good, people like you and you're dying club think you are being victimised, lol the lack of an apology from Rangers should ensure you're club suffers what it richly deserves. "liquidation"
Disgusted Jags fan.
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May I remind you that man utd failed to gain re entry into CL as Basle, the Swiss side were nothing to do with the fact that fc sion were banned, the same as Celtic are nothing to do with rangers, u cheated, no one else. Dry you're eyes mate,
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If UEFA get a proper picture of what has been going on at Ibrox lately they will most likely asking why the SFA haven't already suspended Rangers.
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Eh....dont think so........How can they ban the rest of the clubs for us doing something wrong, Not paying taxes, suppliers, other clubs............eh...and you think Uefa will ban other clubs....think we will be banned for a lifetime...if we are still here
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Be a more exciting league, yeah sure rfc won't be second, but 4 or5 other teams have a fighting chance, more cash for finishing higher up the league. tangerine team.
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Please tell everyone HOW the league is rigged.
If you mean that Rangers rigged the league for years then I can tell you that and as for the SKY deal concider this
If SKY walk away are they condoning cheating?
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This has to be the most riduclous post ever written anywhere on any forum. I take it you had a quick afternoon break from your sand pit at nursery.
take your punishment, pay your taxes and get on with it son.
TonyBhoy
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We should not forget that SKY present a 'sports channel' to people interested in watching 'sport'. The company will be very keen to ensure that they are associated with the concept of 'sporting integrity' which Rangers FC have demonstrably failed to do. I believe that the SKY will continue unabated and be appreciated by viewers interested in watching sporting events including Scottish Football.
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Not quite. UEFA will take action if a national association doesn't punish its club for a sanction it imposes.
So Rangers can go to the CAS if ti wants. But the SFA must exercise its obligations under UEFA and if that means punishing Rangers further, be assured it will do so.
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The sky deal will still be in place but I believe they will demand live matches on monday and friday nights as adverts for on line betting is where they make a lot of their profits these adverts will be shown and people will watch even without rangers
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Rigged league. the only ones cheating are your own team and you will have to accept that when the judgment of the dual contract investigation is announced. your an embarrassement to your fellow rangers fans coming out with that nonesense
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Let mr green promise to pay every thin dime to everyone owed money andwe will applaud.but shaft a newsagents for 40 quid a florist for 70, and rot in hell forever.
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The fans of every club in Scotland should unite to kick Rangers out, the good news is many are starting to think this way.
think back to the 80's when Scottish football was booming without a strong Rangers. kick them out NOW and bring the integrity back to Scottish football.
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Maybe iam a muppet ed but havent all the pundits been telling us all for years the sky deal is crap. {Ed001's Note - it is crap, for the rest of the SPL other than the Old Firm.}
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According to the SFA we have around 40 players. Why dont we take the punishment and this so called transfer kitty should be used to re-sign all of the squad for next season and just get on with it. The squad we have are more than capable of making a decent challenge for the league
Yes I think the transfer embargo is unfair businesses that enter administration are not banned from replacing their staff so what makes football any different. These business are not punished it is the directors that are again what makes football different.
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All this SPL needs Rangers clap trap you didn't give two f**** about the SPL when you wanted into the English Premier League, the blinkers yous Rangers fans wear are amazing !
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Guys like you are a complete embarrassment to Scottish football and indeed your club. Unfortunately, there are more than just you that think like this. Your anger I can understand. However, it is pointed in the wrong direction as it should be directed to all RFC board members. They have allowed Rangers to be the laughing stock of football everywhere!
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16 May 2012 23:39:58
Ed , Where do we stand as a club, can we sign free agents ? Thinking it would be against the employment laws if we offer free agents a deal and the SFA block it ??
The airport bear {Ed025's Note - sorry i dont know mate..
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Im sure we are more than welcome to sign players. I believe they just wont be allowed to be registered for the league. Is this true? Any further clarification incase I am wrong?
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Money is not the issue, you will not be able to register anyone.
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We can't sign anybody aged 18 or over. That includes free agents and transfer fees.
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Your question about free agents was put forward to fraser wishart who says that rangers cannot sign free agents but can offer new contracts to players such as andrew little and soni aluko. the sfa's decision will backfire on them bigtime!
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The SFA hold the players registration they simply won't accept the players registration.
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The punishment for the offences committed by Rangers FC are fines and no signings of anyone over 18 years of age there is no ambiguity in the decision!
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Employment law doesn't apply in football. Uz cant sign any1 over the age of 18, free agent or not. DEAL WITH IT!
Drew
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The ban prevents Rangers registering any player over the age of 18, it is that simple. No trialists, no loans, no frees and no fees
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The SFA will not grant licenses to play football in Scotland to any new players at Rangers, whether they are free, volunteers or bought.
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You can bring in under 18 free agents, its not rocket science. doh!!
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No! No! No! no! And no again you cannot register a player over 18 years of age and it DOESN'T matter whether they are free agents,kidnapped agents,double agents, or special agents.WHY do you guys ask these questions when you have access to a computer that would give you all the answers you need? Especially when it's your beloved cloud at deaths door!
Briggs
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There's nothing SFA or anyone can do to stop Rangers employing footballers. They just won't be allowed to register them for their playing squad.
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No free agents unless they are under 18. It doesnt break employment rules as you are able to employ players they just wont be registered so unable to play in competetive matches.
Rangers could theoretically sign Leo Messi if they want and he can play in the next Linfield friendly.
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Rangers have over forty players on their books Mr Green can increase their wages and make it worth their while to stay at Ibrox and can bring 18 year olds in too. So where is the problem when a lot of Rangers fans are saying its a crap league and Celtic are s**t3 too.
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Are you hoping to get someone on a free, pay no transfer fee, declare that you are paying them £3k a week and use a double contract to pay them more money which you dont have in the first place.
The embargo will do RFC no harm whatsoever. It will give you the chance to get used to not getting into further debt which caused this mess.
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They will be doctoring birth certificates next
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Rangers, Duff and Di*@head and Charlie Green need to get there head around this sharpish. There will be no turnaround in the appeal ruling now so forget UEFA and courts of sports arbitration and all that s**te. Get Aluko, Little and all the others who are willing to stay and get them on new contracts, even if its 1 year extensions. They need to act now before agents turn the likes of aluko's head and rangers lose them. They need to secure the numbers they have for next season. Or next season could be even more embarrassing than you could even imagine.
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17 May 2012 03:09:44
I for one will not be paying to see a fixed league in my sky package
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Now that's a good call! How much would Rangers fans & clubs cancelling their Sky membership hurt them in the pocket? In fairness, the current contract will be adhered to and it would only hurt Sky in the pocket, but it may have some kind of bearing on the new contract.
It would certainly be interesting.....
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Subscriptions from scots to sky is no big deal to them either way
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My sky package has been cancelled roll on virgin end of June
Alan
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Its a little thing called sporting integrity, sumthing uz lot know nothing about.
Drew
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Love this "league fixing" trend going on here. ha ha
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So you dont want to watch any other football either then? no prem or spanish, very little champs league? I'm a gers fan and this is just getting ridiculous.....we fooked up we've just got to deal with it as best we can
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I'm sure Sky will be losing a lot of sleep about that. Not.
Get over it and enjoy the football. (Or was it was never about the football?)
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Roll on virgin ?? virgin have to pay sky for the sports so what`s the point?
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No you wont watch it because your crap team will be even worse next season because they cant buy (and then not fully pay for) new players. So you will have to watch them lose even more games. Just be honest about it. You will be wearing a Man City top by november. Glory hunter.
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Sky are big in Scotland cos thers no other networks to buy from, England is fight between ntl, virgin, etc {Ed001's Note - NTL are Virgin and they pay money to Sky to show their channels.}
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League Fixing is winning leagues and qualifing for Europe with Taxpayers money . Money that you have not paid and have no intention of paying . Take Hibs, a club run within its means they finish 2nd bottom then take yourselves a club who with held 1.1m of taxpayers money every month to enable a 20k a week contract to an ex hibs player (Whitts) . Now if the shoe was on the other foot and Hibs had gained a higher league place than you by cheating every month . Would you want them to face sanctions .
You played a big boys game , you got caught now take your medicine and move on .
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Why not cancel sky and actually go to games ?
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Sky don't show Div3 games.
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17 May 2012 01:48:07
Surely now RANGERS must call UEFA in to probe the sporting integrity of the SFA after its attempt at LEAGUE FIXING for financial gain by senior board members
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Are you serious! If UEFA get involved Rangers are f***ed , they would have no problem banning you from all football for the actions over 20 yrs , still more to come out in the panorama program next wk( the one Murray is trying to ban )count yourselves lucky you still have a team
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Please oh Please contact UEFA
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SFA acting on behalf of UEFA. What do you think UEFA would do differently you muppet? Probably increase the sanctions for not paying European football creditors for a start.
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That's the last thing Rangers should be bothering with. UEFA really don't take kindly to that kind of thing, especially as they'll be keeping a close eye on the Rangers' debt to Rapid Vienna, for instance, very closely.
A complete no-goer.
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Sutrely rangers financial doping should be punished? Juve were relegated for match fixing - whats the difference? rangers simpy used different methods to cheat. transfer ban is good news for green - justifies him not spending any money without fans backlash. wake up.
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Typical un-educated post.
Think UEFA would be far more interested in the 11 years of match rigging on the back of the EBTs......Hell, lets hope Rangers do call them in. A sensible expectation would be that UEFA recommend revocation of your SFA license then bye bye Rangers - Period.
Be careful what you wish for.
The way some of the rangers 'Fans' are reacting reminds me of my primary school days when the big fat kid would try and bully the smaller kids, not out of a misplaced feeling of superiority, but driven by that gnawing feeling deep inside that he was really the inadequate one and had to compensate in some way. To me, this sums up the whole WATP mindset. More to be pitied than laughed at.....
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Think youll find SFA are probably taking guidance from UEFA. If the situation is as close to match fixing, then they have no option but to impose the strongest possible punishment. If all acussations are true UEFA may invoke harsher punishments. Perhaps SFA are trying to indicate they are tough enough to deal without UEFA stepping in. D&P have to think very carefully about any further actions, IMO I beleive they will shout alot in public but will do little in private, courts case is just more money they cant afford, court case will autoamtically banish them from Europe, and possibly end any chance of Newco, as UEFA sactions could make this impossible.
Again IMO its obvious something at rangers was highly corrupt, I beleive some more info will come to the fore on this over the next few weeks, the Rangers fans may eventually get all the information insted of snipits, the BBC programme next week will either be a damp squib or the start of a major investigation by UEFA/SFA. Mr Murray is the route cause, the undertones in the Scottish media are now beginning to realise this.
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Financial gain? They risk all uz lot acting like wee babies and boycotting matches. Its called having a moral backbone and a responsibility to justice. Well done to the SFA.
Drew
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The greatest crime is match fixing. Rangers the SFA and their referees didn't do that for 140 years.
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Why should Rangers waste money on a call when UEFA will be paying them a visit soon regarding cheating in over 700 games, if you think the BTC is bad wait until this hits.
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Haha. Excellent. You feel free to go to UEFA, they will take a dim view of RFC appealing to them about such a lenient sentance. Considering the INDEPENDANT tribunal deemed RFCs breaches as only slightly less serious than match fixing.
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I think you are on shaky ground if you start complaining about sporting integrity to UEFA. It is the lack of sporting integrity i.e. cheating, exhibited by the Rangers' management over several years that has got you into this mess. It is likely that UEFA will increase the sanctions against you, not reduce them.
Liah Smit
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What rangers done under the EBT's is as close to match fixing as is possible. Cheats liars and thieves.
I would send you to the 3rd division....with sanctions imposed down there also.
TonyBhoy
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Tonybhoy
We don't want them in our division, the fans and clubs down in the depths of Scottish football might not have much, but at least we have integrity.
AA
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The original post is idiotic at best but sums up the anger felt by most Rangers fans. Consistency is the key here and that is something sadly lacking at the SFA, UEFA and FIFA. To the Celtic supporters banging on and on in this thread about the EBT's and dual contracts - keep your powder dry, the decisions haven't been reached yet but even if they do go against Rangers, which isn't guaranteed, then precedents have already been set elsewhere. Consistency is the phrase here again. Juventus (match fixing) were relegated ONE division with only an additional nine point deduction (not exactly one that would cripple them - they gained promotion back to the Serie A during the same year). That is the worst any team has received to date for that sort of offence. The Swiss FA will also back down against the seven clubs involved in their scandal too and they will no doubt drop ONE division after regaining their registrations. Their FA will reach a compromise with UEFA over their reinstatement otherwise Swiss football will be in the wilderness for decades - that one is still ongoing.
Sorry for the cut and paste but the rest of the points were made on the Celtic page in reply to someone stating that the club collectively, and not the individuals, were to blame and should be punished unmercifully. Consistency and a FAIR punishment is all we are looking for.
p.s. Sorry for the length of it ed!
I will start by saying I genuinely think the transfer ban is a fair compromise. It is only for a year, we should accept it and move on. That is my personal opinion. However, the issue Rangers have, and probably the majority of the support too, is to do with consistency in the application of punishments.
Uefa banned Fernebache from the Champions League for a year due to match fixing allegations (Rangers were one stage below that remember - its been highlighted enough times on this page if you can't) and that was it as far as punishment from Uefa AND the Turkish FA (right behind FIFA, Uefa and Italy as the most corrupt governing body out there). Rightly or wrongly NO transfer embargo from their own league or the WORLD football ban from FIFA that you are asking for, only one season's suspension from the Champions League by Uefa whilst the investigation took place. Fernebache, like Rangers, thought this was too harsh and appealed through the European courts prior to, under pressure, dropping the action before a hearing could take place. They were actually proven correct, technically, as the Turkish FA chased the individuals involved instead of the clubs they represented and Uefa have not intervened to suggest they deemed it otherwise. They only took issue with having their authority challenged.
Hopefully Rangers will not take this any further full stop, despite the Turks setting a precedent of only punishing individuals and not the clubs, because it could have serious implications for the WHOLE of Scottish football if they do appeal and carry it through. Uefa do not like to have their authority challenged and hold the respective FA's responsible for the actions of their teams and players. If it goes through European or more likely civil courts then EVERYONE would lose out if this happened to go the whole way.
The Turkish FA have charged the INDIVIDUALS concerned and criminal proceedings are still in progress, the Fernebache chairman is in jail and certain players already convicted of match fixing have been banned for between 1 and 3 seasons (personally it would have been for life). I would have no problems if that were the case here - justice HAS to at least be seen to have been done and someone HAS to face a severe punishment to stop others following suit. Let it be Murray and Whyte if everything alleged ends up proven to be true, as they are both entirely culpable if that is the case. Throw the book at them, I will help you. No other chairman/owner would ever overstep their boundaries again if they remotely thought they would be held PERSONALLY liable and could face jail time. The clubs would then be FORCED to operate within the rules instead of constantly trying to find ways of bending them.
Owners and chairmen of the top EPL teams are currently considering reselling the naming rights to their stadia (to themselves BTW) every year to increase their clubs income and 'legally' get round the new Fair Play rules. Bit like the use of EBT's in a way. Legal but for how long? Guaranteed they aren't the only big guns looking at similar dodges either. Is it right? No! But who or what is going to make them realise they can't keep legally 'cheating' the system until it is officially deemed otherwise?
If clubs get punished and the individuals don't then what is to stop another charlatan taking over a Scottish club and doing exactly the same thing? Currently they can just walk away free from personal responsibility and leave the mess for someone else to clean up, just like Murray (allegedly) and Whyte (definitely!) did. It happens all too often in the real world too and everyone suffers bar the ones DIRECTLY responsible. Remember the banking crisis? Banks went out of business through the financial mismanagement of a few: recession followed by double dip recession, people lost their jobs, pay freezes and cuts for almost everyone else, massive unemployment, and no-one had any confidence in the system of government. Did we deserve that? Obviously you think we did. The government represents every person in Britain and by your definition we would all be guilty by association because they didn't reign in the financiers when they had the chance and we stood by and watched. Is that about the gist of your argument or have I got it wrong?
What about the GENUINELY guilty parties during that time? Goodwin lost his knighthood (only after intense political pressure to save face - otherwise he would have kept it) but kept his outrageous pension and the other individuals concerned just climbed back onto the gravy train at the next available stop as if nothing had happened. It won't be the last time either, in football or business, until rules are put in place that gets the people RESPONSIBLE by the short and curlies instead of grabbing everyone else's by default.
Incidentally, NO Turkish club with players or officials involved in the match fixing scandal has received ANY sanctions for the misdemeanour's carried out by the individuals involved. Uefa have closely monitored the process and appear happy with how the Turkish FA are dealing with it. Otherwise, they would have stepped in and ALL Turkish clubs would likely be banned from Europe and the National team banned from competing in the Euro's (not sure about World Cup as that is FIFA's domain). That is the big stick they beat everyone down with.
When Sion took their case to court Uefa threatened the Swiss FA with a blanket ban on ALL European fixtures and the removal of their registration as a member country if they did not stand up to the Swiss courts and get Sion to either drop the case or accept the punishments previously issued by them. Similarly, threats were also directed at the Dutch FA around the time of the Bosman court proceedings. Don't invite a bully into the playground.
I would be careful about asking for the intervention of the most crooked and self interested organisation out there. They will have no qualms in decimating the WHOLE of Scottish football for a few decades if they feel the legality of their authority is being questioned (look again at the position the Swiss FA are in and how they got there).
You might not think it but by footballing standards the sanctions imposed ARE pretty harsh by comparison and the SFA ARE actually standing firm on the matter (ironically, like the Swiss, probably because they do not want Uefa involving themselves either) despite being criticised regards perceived leniency whilst concurrently being accused of being too harsh. They cannot win in this situation. We shall just have to wait and see where it goes from here. I for one hope it goes no further. Some form of punishment IS due and if they aren't going to chase the individuals then it could have been a hell of a lot worse for us than a twelve month embargo. Accept it and move on is what I say.
Brian
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"sporting integrity"! it's taken me over 20 minutes to write this as i have just stopped laughing! get a grip this is your own fault you are in this position, Hearing rumours that people within Green's consortium are already indicating they may back out! watch this space!!!!!!
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17 May 2012 01:45:39
When are the 20 of Greens consortium going to be named? Why did Whyte give up his shares so easily? I reckon whyte is still involved
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It's all about what happens with the floating charge. Suspicous it hasn't been mentioned as is crucial to what happens next.
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Who are these people? we have a right to know!! lol Ally should go on the telly again and ask don't you think?
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Do not worry. I hear that the potential bidder who it was reported wanted to paint Ibrox 'PINK' may come back in after seeing Rangers players taking nice wee pictures of each other as they shower!
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They want to wait until a CVA is in place as I hear there is a few with a hell of a lot of cash. They have been told 8.5m will get a CVA through but if the ppl waiting in the wings have hundreds of millions the creditors will want more cash from the CVA
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Any 'newco' should be called ' Emerald Greens Merrymen ' smile your on camera weeman!
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Come on . There are no serious players in this 20. Big hitters don't mess about with ten and fifteen percent deals. They go the whole way. Don't get me wrong I hope there are serious hitters but I am sceptical. Recent experience has taught me this.
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17 May 2012 01:33:51
No rules for a newco within SPL
No rules for fit and proper persons
Max fine for what we have done is
£100k, no embargo.
SPL will make up rules about newco
and that will be whatever suits their
clubs.
SFA demand to know consortium
members so they can decide despite
having nothing in force how to do that.
We get fined £160k with embargo, not in the rules,
since when were SFA appointed enforcers
for HMRC for not paying tax, must
have missed that appointment.
so sfa and spl will just make up
rules as suits them at any given time
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The £160k was made up from three seperate charges. All of which included a sub clause stating that the team would lose their membership to the Scottish league.
So Rangers got away with losing their membership three times.
Please don't some on this site and claim you are being hard done by. You have got off very lightly.
Saying that, there are still two charges to face though.
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The SFA and SPL will do whatever they can to get rid of Rangers FC. Their ends whether legal or illegal justify the means.However,it sounds like they have left themselves open to a legal challenge
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Boo Hoo everyones fault but Rangers again,the SFA have a wide range of sanctions £100 k was not deemed to fit the crime(you could and should have been kicked out all together)did you not read where they said the only thing worse than what Rangers did was match fixing? They let you off light stop moaning ,it is getting very boring now.
Dannybhoy
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Rule for newco is to re-apply to league, no need to accept application. Reason for meeting and rule implementation is this situation is new, if it was any other club other than old firm SPL would not have meeting. NEWCO cannot currently apply for SPL, so why not keep to existing situation, why try to give Rangers preferential treatment. This club has been corruptly run by a succession of individuals, the punishments given out have to reflect this, poorly run businesses close down daily. Not one Rangers fan has given any answer to why they should be an exception. Life will go on without Rangers, might not generate the same levels of income, but all other clubs will adapt or follow the same route and become extinct, so be it, the ones left will eventually create a competitive environment and all will live within their means as it should be.
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There is a rule in the SFA/SPL statutes that said they can impose ANY other sanction outwith their rules IF they deem it necessary. This embargo has been signed by the lawyers for both the SPL & Rangers. It has also been signed of by a High Court Judge. This ruling is water tight.
As for the fit and proper person ruling. Surely even the most dim witted of Rangers fan would like to know who is running their football club. The SPL/SFA made the mistake of letting Whyte in without background checks, would you like to see them make the same mistake again? There might be a good dozen Craig Whyte-esque members of this 20 person consortium.
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Stop grasping at straws, take yer medicine, move on,
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160k is the max fine. Maximum sanction is EXPULSION! RFC have got off with a slap on the wrist considering what they have done and the punishments they could have recieved.
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Changing the rules to keep you in it.
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Legal challenge! Original panel and appeal had contained a judge and a QC this is just the start more harder stuff to come , phone tapping , forged and shredded documents, dual contracts oh the Rangers are f***ed
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16 May 2012 23:58:18
Has anyone heard anything about Sven goran Ericsson being named the new gers manager. Heard its all done and ally will walk when everything goes back as it was on 1 June and there is no money to pay folk.
I'm stayin anonymous but I can assure you that this is from a very very very credible source and I would put my house on it happenin after being told what I was told today. Also told that Rodney's agent is part of the 20 men which could spell the end for a lot of players and mean many new faces as this is the only way he will get his tuppence worth.
Charles green is a villain and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. He will pick rangers apart bit by bit as his only god is money. Anything worth selling will be sold, otherwise how are 20 men gonna get a profit and your not tellin me that they are in it for the love of rangers. Money money money.
The Chinese and Indonesian investors also have international arrest warrants out for them so they can't go anywhere. The whole thing stinks and it will all unfold in the coming weeks. Feel sorry for ally as he has handled everything very well but his time is nearly up and he can still walk away with the respect of the fans, I would imagine he will be the only one!
Remember I told u this here first and slate me all you want but I will duels reply when the time comes
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If this was true, which I seriously doubt it would be then my season ticket (if the form ever arrives) will not be renewed! Nor do I think I would follow on with the same vigour!
Copey Loyal to McCoist!
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Must be true! Sven has always said that his dream is to get a team out of Scottish Div 3 into Europe.
Then he will retire and die happy with 72 virginal Ulrikas in heaven!
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I think you have got a best- seller there mate. The film rights will be worth a fortune!
Liah Smit
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Rooneys agent. VERY dodgy character. Struck a deal with him once ! Shook hands in it. Then he renaged on deal when someone offered more money
Remind u of anyone
Mojo
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What an utter pile of nonsense. stop drinking mate
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I heard it was sir alex and Jose mourinho double team mite be true? No1 has a reliable source when it comes to Rangers anymore not even the media so don't believe everything you hear SGR always needs lots of money to spend and even then he's hopeless so why come to Glasgow?
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Slate who? You have left no name because your post is the biggest load of tripe Ive read in a while.
Gavla
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Not doubting your source as you do seem convinced, but do agree with the rest of your post this takeover stinks, it just does not have a good vibe and does seem manufactured from day one. the last thing your team needs is another corrupt owner, surley the last 2 would highlight this. Good thing is they will not be allowed to take over or run the club without all 20 being assessed by the SFA to be fit and proper, in all honesty D&P should ensure this in advance, but who knows they are probaly puppets for someone
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Hope not he's Whst our club doesn't need someone spending millions we ain't got.
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Ha Ha brilliant Yea it is true and he is bringing Beckham and Rooney with him and as for your house, yea urnae allowed tae put council hooses oan anything oh ah forgot you are a Rangers supporter yeas can dae whit yea want.
wee Tam
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Ok firing ally who's maybe on £10k a week if he's lucky to bring in Sven who's prob gonna be looking about 40k a week. Wise up.
Rodney's agent getting rid of players and many new faces to be brought in so ur spending even more money. Although wont be this year due to the embargo.
Think you've been on football manager way to long mate.
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Why would they spend millions on sven then pick the club apart, absolute p1sh......
very very very unhappycraig+babybear
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He managed to turn a 15 point lead into a 10 point deficit McCoist must go - if we survive!
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I agree. I think the Green Knights are dodgy characters and have been planning this for a while. How come they appeared out of nowhere with a finalised bill. Also C. Green registered a company in March or April called Sevco, but has yet to declare what its line of business is. Could it be a football team? Will we see Sevco FC playing at Ibrox next season?
Al
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THIS IS %100 TRUE - i was also told this from an unnamed agent working on behalf of an unnamed club, from an unkown galaxy many leagues under the sea (ie scottish third division)
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Ye sure why not? mccoist would have been sacked before admin & "we dont do walking away", so is he coming to glasgow for £300 per week then
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17 May 2012 00:11:31
D&F press release in the last few mins
AN SFA independent appeals panel has this evening upheld a decision to impose a 12-month transfer embargo on the club.
Duff and Phelps, administrators of Rangers Football Club, issued the following statement tonight.
Paul Clark, joint administrator, said: "The decision by the appellate tribunal to uphold the sanction, namely the suspension of registration of players for one year, is not competent in the view of the club and its legal advisers.
"Such a sanction was not available to the tribunal and should not have been imposed and it is the intention of the club to challenge the determination.
"The club will consider seeking review of this most disappointing decision and it is a matter of regret that the certainty and finality Rangers sought on this matter has not been achieved.
"Everyone at Rangers is bitterly disappointed and dismayed at this outcome."
Charles Green, who leads a consortium purchasing Rangers, said: "Our group went into the purchase of the club with this sanction in place but we hoped the decision would at least be commuted.
"We fully support the club as it considers an appeal against this latest decision."
Sandy Jardine, spokesman for the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund, added: "Rangers supporters will be shocked and bitterly disappointed by this decision and will find it hard to take that the club has been so heavily punished for the actions of individuals."
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If D&P take this through the courts UEFA will intervene and throw the book at RFC. We need to draw line and move on, not waste time on costs which could lead to bigger implications to the club.
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Rangers need to fight the SFA in the courts and see what legality their so called 'powers' actually are in relation to punishments decreed.
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C'mon, lets be realistic here. The 2 individuals did not do this alone. That said, they also did it on behalf of RFC so they represented a "club" decision. Did anyone challenge their decisions in writing? Need to draw a line, take the blows and move on instead of wasting valuable resources on Dumb and Dumber and their legal cronies.
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The decision was delivered by a QC and approved by a leading judge. Quite what grounds D&P think they might have to challenge it I don't know.
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A couple of points
1. both UEFA & FIFA take a dim view of teams that bypass their national and international associations in favour of court action, they could impose greater sanctions.
2. Saying we are being punished for the actions of one individual is infantile nonsense. Like it or not Craig Whyte owned 85% of the company when these actions took place. That mean he was the company! - Him not the players not the holders of the other 15% and certainly not the fans.
We have an emotional investment in the club. The financial investment we make in buying season tickets is repaid by admission to all home league games that season. That is all we are legally entitled to.
Finally for D&P to suggest that the panel exceeded their powers seems unlikely to succeed it looks to me like another expensive waste of time and money like other court actions they have pursued. Instead of fighting the embargo we should be doing everything we can to hold on to the players we have. If they go at cut price rates (or even free if there is a newco) how can we afford to replace them.
We need to start fighting the fights we can win! {Ed025's Note - good post that mate..
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Dumbest thing in the entire post is Whitehouse line "it is a matter of regret that the certainty and finality Rangers sought on this matter has not been achieved." It has most definitely got certainty and finality, maybe not to Rangers choosing but nonetheless it has both. So won't Duff and Phelps add more uncertainty and less finality by appealing again? I'm beginning to think they are merely complete half wits.
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Sorry, Clark, not Whitehouse.
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Bears, in all seriousness we have to be very careful here and not let our hearts rule our heads. Irrespective of what we all think of the SFA, they are not stupid, they have their own top lawyers, they know their rules and limitations, this decision would not have been made and upheld without them being sure they were acting within law. I seriously fear that if we take this further such as to UEFA or FIFA then given the facts infront of them they will punish us further and call for our suspension from the SFA, I think that is a certainty. We cannot go into this with a sole argument as it wasnt the supporters fault it was our owner. Like it or not Whyte was the owner, he was Rangers at that time and as such business law dictates. Lets have cool heads here and take it and move on. Rash comments already from the boss and Greens war chest havent helped matters either.
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Don't let them waste money chasing lost causes. Do you think they would be quite so quick to instruct if the fees were coming out of their own pockets?
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To be honest I think we are going down to the lower divisions next year: how can we stay in the SLP with the embargo in place. BUT I dont like the begging and moaning some of us are doing. I thought being a man was taking it on the chin: and in this case thanking god that they haven't done something made like strip us of our titles. Now that would have been a disaster.
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Richard Keen QC didnt he do well NOT !!
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Suits me, the other option was expulsion from Scottish football completely.
Take your pick!
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You have (I assume!) paid for a QC for this appeal, you are going to get legal advice for a second appeal, so you are going to be clocking legal fees that will soon outstrip the £160k you have been fined
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Lord Nimmo Smith did the initial investigation and wrote the report. A leading QC imposed the punishment and another leading Judge has reviewed the appeal.
Forget it.
It could have been worse.
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Challenge possibly might be, that the max fine open to the sfa was 100k & there was NO option to implement a transfer ban.
AGAIN sfa are making rules up on the hoof & calling Rangers bluff.
I agree taking an appeal to the next level might backfire, because football is a law unto itself, but is it just me or does something stink here AGAIN??
bil72
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You need to suck this up and move on. What was very telling in the statement from the SFA was ""The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect.
"The appellate tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club." you have been given the least painful of the options. If you pursue the SFA through the courts then UEFA may push for one of the more harsher penalties as they have relatedly stated "they have faith in the Scottish Associations to deal with it" stop moaning, get on securing your existing players and move on. Its done. Â Â Â
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Collective accountability by all the directors of RFC. Read the shocking SFA report. No defence.
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Poster 3 well said
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Full statement is in BBC Scotland website from SFA.
2 paragraphs state ( not verbatim) that basically sanctions do not affect the 40 professionals that RFC have on their books , including those on loan, so it's not the end of the world !
If Green has a warchest put players back on terms of old contracts. Same players won 3 championships, mind you they didn't have an apprentice manager then and Allys managerial record isn't too great.
Maybe the next manager should be theain issue.
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The use of the word competent by D & P startles me somewhat. I find it ironic. D & P and the old Rangers board are/were certainly not competent or honest. Lining their own pockets with fools gold.
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Think Sion ppl, they went to the courts and UEFA threatened to throw them and the whole of Swiss football out of Europe, as above both a judge and QC have been involved in the sentence and appeal , we need to take it on board and move on
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Wish duff & duffer would just accept decision and move on. Everybody agrees we should get punished so just take it and be glad it wasn't increased to being kicked out altogether
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Jardine wants to shut up this "a big boy did it" excuse is embarrassing the whole board must have known and nobody said a word til it was too late
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I always found it interesting McCoist screamed for the initial identities of the tribunal be known AFTER they delivered the ban. I'm sure if they had delivered a fine only to Rangers, McCoist would have been happy with their anonymity.
If not the case, why didn't McCoist ask for the identities to be known before they convened?
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One of the appeal tribunal wanted all big clubs hammered. See this
Spartans demand SFA throw the book at the big boys as well after being kicked out of Scottish Cup on a technicality
Mar 22 2012 By Craig Swan
SPARTANS secretary Jim Murray last night backed the SFA’s demand for honesty – and called for Scotland’s big guns to be hammered like his club if they are found to have stepped out of line.
The East of Scotland outfit welcomed the move from Hampden chief executive Stewart Regan to write to every club in Scotland demanding they own up to making any secret player payments.
Regan fired off letters to all 93 full member clubs 11 days ago after recent claims from ex-Rangers director Hugh Adam suggesting double contracts had been handed to players at Ibrox.
Such a deal would have made those stars ineligible and Hampden chiefs have now claimed they will punish any club guilty of the offence over the past 10 years.
The letter also insists failure to respond by April 6 could result in sanctions.
Murray wants fairness to prevail after Spartans were thrown out of the Scottish Cup earlier this season for fielding an ineligible player in their 2-0 win over Culter.
Striker Keith McLeod signed a new deal in the summer but it was dated only once and the SFA claim it must be done twice.
Scottish Cup rules state that any club fielding an ineligible player will be kicked out of the competition. And Murray hopes that principle will be applied across the board if other clubs, no matter their status, are found to have been in the wrong.
He said: “Regan is doing a good job and he is going to get there. He is sniffing out things and a lot of people and clubs are going to be shaking in their shoes.
“They will be wondering what is going to happen.
“I’ve said for a long time that several misdemeanours have being going on. You hear it through the grapevine but because it is a bigger club nothing happens or it just goes away and lies in a corner.
“These type of things happen and we’re well aware of that. It is sometimes just a case of no one gets to know.
“If anything along the lines of what we did against Culter was done by one of the bigger clubs in the SPL, I don’t think there would have been the same outcome.
“I couldn’t see them turning to Hearts, Hibs, Rangers or Celtic and saying: ‘By the way, you missed a date on that lad’s paperwork, you’re out.’
“I’m sure it happens. With the agreements with players these days, you need a Philadelphia lawyer at times. I agree 100 per cent with Regan’s moves and I’m pleased to see some action.â€
Spartans chairman Craig Graham and a top lawyer went to Hampden to have their case heard and were deeply disappointed when the SFA’s ruling saw them lose a lucrative third-round tie against Partick Thistle.
Murray added: “Our lawyer, who is a big-shot in Edinburgh, looked at our case and felt it was not a misdemeanour.
“We had a registration form which was all signed and dated by the player. Then we had a minute of agreement which was signed by the player – it was just a date was missing.
“Our lawyer believed that, in legal circles, that would have sufficed. But, no. Because it was Spartans, we were out.
“That was typical. Whether it be the SFA, UEFA or FIFA, they have some rules that make you think they just make them up.
“Our lawyer said a date was missing but the other form married up to it and a date only needed to be inserted.
“We felt hard done by. I had it before with the SFA when they phoned me up and said: ‘Jim, you have 1/7/2008 on the form and it should say 11/7/2008.’
“I told them: ‘Could you not just put a one on the front to save you from sending it back?’ But the answer was: ‘No.’
“You feel guilty about a small mistake yet there could be folk out there who have been at the fiddle for years.“
Should he have been on the panel? {Ed001's Note - yes, because he is right, if guilty teams should be hit hard. Stop clutching straws! Rangers have got off lightly, be grateful.}
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Sion has shown that a club takes takes its association to court will get hammered by UEFA.......
Yet admins thing there is more money for creditors in this strategy..... where ?
But who picked them, a yes.......... mr whyte
time till tell.
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Sandy jardine wants 2 think before he opens his trap the guy is a poor front man for the RFFF, cringeworthy and clearly lacks intelligence.
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SJ says: "Rangers supporters will be shocked and bitterly disappointed by this decision....". Really, are any of you shocked!!
"...so heavily punished for the actions of individuals." He talks like it was one of the fans running onto the pitch, one of the 'individuals' was the guy that owned ye!
Even as a Celt I don't like the one year ban, it's a restriction of trade and gives the current squad an amazing negotiating position (you can't buy to replace them), but you got off lightly!
Anyway, best of luck to all the good Gers, you might just need it.
Shug
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Fellow Bears, just be careful what you wish for.
If we take this to the CVA it might make matters worse. Just remember what happened to Sion. They thought they had a case to answer and made a right roarin James Blunt of themselves.
TTG
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We need to take this on the chin and try to retain what players we can for next season. When you take into account the SFA were considering expulsion we got off lightly. If you do the crime you gotta do the time - lets move on to the next issue to resolve....gulp!
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Have we all read the explanation by the SFA! Especially number 4!
4. The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect. The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion
So let’s p*ss the SFA off even more and they might then use the sanctions they do have ! Expulsion! They also go on to explain with a squad of 40player including several on loan not like there is barely a starting 11 of youth players!
Jon S
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Perhaps we oughta take it on the chin. Gives any possible new regime a season to get the house in order without too many expectations.
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Excellent point this ---The decision was delivered by a QC and approved by a leading judge.
And yet my son and a load of fellow bears seem to believe D&P when they suggest these guys must be incompetent & even think that disrupting or even getting a Cup Final abandoned might somehow be good for the Rangers' cause.
Guys it would be hugely damaging for our reputation.
Anyway, from what I've been hearing about this upcoming Mark Daly documentary - with revelations about phone hacking & double contracts - this transfer embargo might be the least of our problems this time next week.
BB
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Fight the decision with wot monies? !
Spending more or the tax payers doe.. think not!
"angry bear"
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Paul Clark says " the decision was not competent " I`ll tell you what is not competent Duff and Duffer ! I cannot believe they are going to appeal the appeal. Don`t they realise where this is going ? If UEFA get involved rangers will be thrown out of football. Take your medicine or else it is goodbye for ever
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A transfer embargo was placed on Dundee for improper governance, it seems there is something in the SFA system that covers this type of penalty.
A rank rotten Rangers team for a year is the fans penalty for their clubs improper governance.
I hope they do not desert their team or Rangers will be back in administration within a year.
It will be a test of loyalty.
Anorak.
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Usual sandheids blame someone else..blah blah blah,do you guys really think that craigy was the only person in the know about non payment of tax ,surely this job inside a vast club the size of gers is delegated to someone else?
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Come on Bears, is there no one on here that can honestly say, yes we have cheated, we deserve to be punished. By flagrant disregard for the rules, creative accounting at best, we have put a team on to the park which we would not have been able to afford and won quite a lot, when in all honesty we would not have. So, would you prefer to hang on to the history and trophies, take the punishment, because you all know we deserve it..Or would you rather throw the toys out of the pram, scream injustice ( irony here ) and most likely be hit with more fines/sanctions whatever. Time for all Bears to admit RFC ( as a whole ) at fault, accept punishment and hopefully move on...to the 3rd tier of Scottish Football.
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It is Rangers who most independent minded observers would concur that it has been Rangers who are a law unto themselves. Indeed the independent minds at two hearings found that to be the case and imposed a lesser sanction than expelling Rangers out of Scottish football altogether - Rangers have got of fairly lightly all things considered. Unfortunately, there will be further problems down the line with EBT's and so on, with the ultimate sanction, still a real possibility.
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"You have (I assume!) paid for a QC for this appeal,"
It was paid for out of the Rangers fighting fund. Money well spent eh?
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Jardines arrogance is unbelievable. This guy is an embarassment to rangers and they should get rid. Even after all this he cant see the massive wrong doing that rangers have committed. The man is a tw@t.
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Jardine and McCoist should both be locked in the darkest corner of Ibrox and kept well away from the media!
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D&P are just laying down a marker. They know the next sfa investigation into the dual contracts could be much worse for the club. They're letting the sfa know that they'll take them all the way.
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