Rangers Rumours Archive August 14 2012

14 Aug 2012 23:31:11
Been told that Sabastien Faure, a Greek defender and Brazilian winger could also play in the #rangers game v #accies

Charles pinochio green me thinks ? So clubs are still waiting to b paid am afraid , very afraid...
Long haired bear

Funny...
This post has the same (#) pattern as the one below, and was only post half a minute later??
Think your talking p*sh mate.
Dtp89

Green has paid the money to SPL for Dundee Utd, in effect he has paid the A-rabs, it's in SPL bank account, so they are at fault not C Green,

Nobody is awaiting payment im afraid, spl have the money. SO away back under your rock on the east end #yourobessioncontinues

Well whoever told u is talking piss they are not

14 Aug 2012 23:26:15
Definately next to departure is Edu with "hyped up" speculation surrounding Bocanegra to a return to MLS!

As Ally said last week, if these guys want to leave then, can you go NOW! as we have a massive job to do in rebuilding our team... Guy's like Edu will not go to a bigger club than Rangers !

14 Aug 2012 11:32:09
BDO, the liquidators of Rangers Oldco are set to drop a £95M spanner in the works and ask for this sum from Charles Green for the assets he purchased for only £5M - less than 5% of their estimated value (~£120M). Duff and Phelps are going to be attending a number of court dates over the coming weeks for the sale, and if Green and/or members of his consortium can't cough up the money the BDO will legally claim the major assets - Ibrox and Murray Park and sell them on to pay the creditors. Things are not rosey yet at Ibrox.

Absolute rubbish

OP - you should be on at the Fringe mate - this site is wasted on you - hilarious !!

Muck raking total nonsense the sale of the assets have been done - Charles Green offered the highest price for the assets so that is that - Murray over valued Murray Park and Ibrox and are not worth anywhere near 120 million so don't talk utter nonsense - if are worth 120 million then why was the company put into administration with a tax bill of 20 million!

Gers1986

I think a lot of hats will be eaten over the next few days if this is correct..... It was forecasted by many of us weeks ago, but we were called numerous names.... lets now wait and see.

So if bdo want 95 million for the assets to pay off creditors what will they do with the40 million change they get because if i remember there bebt was only 40-50 million without the tax case that has'nt been sorted out yet so if it goes in rangers favour then they would have to return the change to charles green think the original post was bullsh*t from the very paranoid what do you think ed's {Ed001's Note - I think it was a load of codswallop to be honest.}

Let me guess your mucker is from BDO?
jog on

This is utter nonsense. Why should Green be penalised for being the only person/head of a consortium to bid for these? It's not his fault that nobody was prepared to pay the c.£120m the assets were valued at.

False, if this was the case, HMRC could have demanded d&p sell the assets to pay creditors. Full Value can not be reached on ibrox or murray park due to ibrox being listed and a ban on building anything at murray park for so many years, part of deal when purchased by rangers.

Simple answer to that is that they can't do that!!

Hate to say this but utter bollox paperwork been sighned all legal docs done green and his pals own it all lock stock the f***ing lot theres no going back now WATP

A wee thought guys - remember Bill Miller's plan was to hive off the assets into a newco whilst the toxic side of the business was sorted - with a view to merging both at the appropriate time? As far as I'm aware Rangers (oldco) is still IN ADMINISTRATION and therefore has still to be passed over to the liquidators. Let's suppose for a moment that the FTT case findings are not as bad as the 'worse case scenario'. Is it conceivable that an alternative to the previously rejected CVA could be put forward? Remember Charles Green has also paid off the footballing debts and we were given agreement to 'transfer' over by the creditors. What if say HMRC were offered more money over an extended period of time or paid in full (notwithstanding their rights to pursue individuals) over that time and the smaller creditors were also refunded?

Ha funniest post ive read in a while, just laugh this off bears its ridiculous what the poster just said cannot happen legally, the assetshave been bought there nothing to do with the old company that formally ran rangers FC, THEY ARE NOW OWNED BY THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LTD

If you all remember Green said he met Whyte and gave him one pound for the Assers and one pound 100% profit.
The £5.5m he gave D&P was to cover the exact same figure that is D&Ps bill!
BDO will be looking at why £120m of assets went to Green for £2, when 276 creditors were owed £240m.
Remember putting assets beyond creditors including HMRC during administration is highly illegal and that has clearly happened here in the full glare of public media.

The assets should have reached maximum value at public auction for settlement with creditors. Any creditor can now challenge D&Ps sale to chase their 100% repayment. I know I would. Everyone is at risk by the wee guy owed £400.

Well seems all is done and dusted and oldco have lost all relationshsip with newco. Maybe I misread where the liquidators have the power to question all involved and have the authority to rescind the deal if it was not in the best interest of the creditors. Dumb & Dumber will also have to answer a lot of awkward questions. Paying all Scottish debts ensured no hurdles in applying to join SFL but EUFA may have some different ideas when the out of Scotland clubs demand compensation. And yes I follow Celtic and do feel for the honest supporters but I dont think it is all as cut and dried as everyone is intimating

It's perfectly possible and indeed looks extremely likely, for all it wasn't a club with history and prestige that was purchased, it was still assets that are significant.
What's happened may well constituen a "gratutious alienation".
Watch this space but SevGers may about to experience a similar fate to that of its forefather.

Green and co already said ibrox worth £50 million on a bad day, so any arguement they offered highest amount is also false....

D&P had to offer fair access to these assets, going concern was thier choice and £5 million the result, very poor and no doubt BDO will offer firesale and get much more ?

BDO may well have a nasty surprise for Charles Green in the months to come but as they won't even be starting their work on the liquidation until the Lord Hodge/Duff and Phelps conflict of interests issue has been concluded then I have to assume that this is pure guesswork.

BARNEY BEAR

Its not about history, community interest or supporters. Its about a business that has gone into administration and undersold their assets and then entered liquidation. Regardless of EBT's and all the other stuff, Dumb and Dumber sold the asstes for 10% of their true value. Their job as administrators was to get the best deal possible for their creditors not the club. As such, the liquidators will have the opportunity to question how the current situation was in the best interest of the creditors. These points are not personal just facts. Is it fair to the supporters and staff of Rangers, absolutely not but ask MFI, Ravenscraig, Woolworth etc. about fairness. I cant believe businessmen like Green and the Ashley would buy into this knowing the potential so I may be way off the mark but then again everyone believed CW who even duped DM!

"shows us the title deeds" said bomber on the steps , is this related in anyway ?

In my job i go to a lot of companies and there was a company that i went to and know for a fact that the guy put in his accounts stating all the assets owned by the company and in the year following that got a new machine installed worth 500,000 pounds by the time the next accounts were due he had ran up loads of debt to the value of 3-4 million pounds had sold all assets to a new company the transactions were showing in his next years accounts the company that he origanally owned went into liquidation with a bank ballance of 100,000 the liquidators took this to repay the creditors he then opend in the same building under a different co name with the 500,000 pound machine he had just bought but not paid for and is still there today so this sort of thing might not be wright but it is done on a regular basis mark my words

All liquidators have power to unpick any deal in sell of, we await Lord Hodge reviewing the details as to D&P and thier conflict of interest questions, then the administration will end, either as is, or with D&P stripped of admin rights (and fees) and BDO in to restart process again.. more bills, more legal, and yet another set of buyers.

This could leave Green with season ticket money, no stadium and in the clear.

Haha.. WATP,
Your patters fkn brilliant mate.
Dtp89

....Jesus you bhoys are desperate sad sad people...Duff and Phelps were legally appointed...the sale of the assets were legal and Green,s consortium bought them in good faith...if there was any questions to answer regarding the valuation of the assets the questions would be asked of Duff and Phelps NOT CHARLES GREEN...honestly away and follow your own club and leave us in peace to rebuild our club....

Not sure about the figures but i'd be very surprised if BDO didn't challenge the valuation through the courts.

To the deluded out there that appear to think that rangers are worth a shed load consider the following.
* Players Value (assets) minimal due anyone of value leaving.
* Ibrox Value (Asset) -Only worth anything as a stadium, but who would buy? consider the works required, Also a listed building and site of significance,so redevelopment opportunity,very limited, It was also reported that any attempts to change its use would be strongly opposed, due to it also being classed as memorial to those who unfortunalty lost their lifes.
* The Land (asset) Value minimal - no one is paying premium for land with restricted use,not with standing it is not exacatly prime real estate?
* MurrayPark (Asset) Again only of value as a facility , which is to big as a whole to anyone esle, other than RFC, (or CFC but they have their own). It also has restrcited use, so a developer would not pay anything near the build cost of the facility.
So I somehow doubt that BDO would of put an asset value anywhere near £95million, not in 95 million years
In respect as a on going business,invtations where invited and Green was the only show in town,so the market value is what someone is willing to pay? Therefore the only thing for BDO to look at is if D&B wrongly dismissed a Bona Fida alternative bid wrongly.
Taking all of the above into account I think we can confidently and truely say the Original Poster is talking out of a hole that they should be sitting on.

Ibrox and Murray park are only worth that with a football team playing! Why would be 2 bits of land be worth what u lot are suggesting?!

Hate to repeat but who exactly selected D&P...... whyte ? and who did he have in the box on his first game in power... ... ouch.

Sadly does not look clean exit, and no doubt will rumble on and on.

Reports elsewhere than the docs at company house not clear cut, why oh why, green should have all the time in the world , to let this all pan out and just play football, why the rush ?

There is a point in this tho. The BDO can go through the courts and make the buyer (not the seller ie: duff n phelps) make a claim in court to why they think the assest were worth that value, so really the court case is about sevco giving evidence to their valuation of the club. If they fail to persuade a judge to allow it he can hand the assests over to BDO to sell on for its rightful price.

I however, dont believe they will do this and it is just tims picking up on the story about this from two months ago on a legal news scotland website.

30k and counting...every other saturdays ma half day off...

£5.5 million 'as consideration'. Has Green paid all the money? Have Duff and Phelps reached agreement with a credit note from Green and his consortium?
Still to unravel.
I still don't think he has control of the tangible assets, I think Whyte has.
Bomber may well be right. Who has the title deeds?

Lol was it the bbc that posted this toshhhhhh

Could be some truth in this but the 120m figure would simply be bdo going in high as they would know they will not get close to that.

All part of negotiating though, ask for the max and then be seen to compromise when accepting a lot less.

Defo something suspect about the assests being sold to green at that price did brian kennedy not offer more and wqs rejected!

Lets just deal with THE LAW!
The sale has been completed. The assets have been sold. Any wrongdoing over this CANNOT lead to a reversal of the sale. Only possibility would be a claim against Duff & Phelps. FACT

Unless of course the SFA / SPL can convince Parliament to follow their lead and restrospectively change the law!

If d&p all legal why did lord hodge ask to see report from d&p on their legal view of conflict of interest BEFORE he stopped admin process????

All liquidators have power to unpick administrators deals if they unsound, that's the point of having administrators and liquidators....!!!!

Bla,bla,bla,bla,bla.
I'm sick of this drivel, we will be back playing and beating you in a few years, so do one and worry about your own team.
BR

If you sell a stolen car in "good faith" ,as you did not know its stolen, it's not legal!!

Same with buying business, Whyte bought gers with ticketus money that was so legal police looking into if it criminal??

How many months does property have to be on the open market before its value is established ?

Greens was the highest bid, end of story, it does not matter a jot what the book value was, its the market value that counts.

Any transaction works on the basis of a "willing buyer and willing seller principle". A valuation may be attached to an asset, but if no-one is willing to but it at that price then the valuation means nothing... Charles Green and his consortium were the only party to front up the money, so BDO may want to challenge it but not sure they will be successful.

Aye ! Guid yin !

Oh no. The tax experts are now liquidation experts. For a week or two they all cleared off and we had some interesting transfer talk. Now they are back on here cos the only rumours coming from their side is player exits.

RANGERS liquidators say they are unable to guarantee that the club will continue to play at Ibrox, the club's home for the past 113 years.

Insolvency expert BDO has been brought into oversee the liquidation of the company's assets after a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) is expected to be formally rejected at a meeting of creditors today.

Yesterday, the company refused to rule out a fire sale of assets if former Sheffield United chief executive Charles Green fails in his bid to form a "newco" from the assets.

That is straight from the very article that spawned this ridiculous rumour. Note very carefully the following words " if former Sheffield United chief executive Charles Green fails in his bid to form a "newco" from the assets.", we have already taken part in 2 cup competitions and started our league campaign,the newco has been formed - The Rangers Football Club Ltd, so there will be no firesale, BDO's words not mine. Surely this can be put to rest now.

The problem here is a simple one it is worded very haughtily in legal speak but essentially boils down to what one poster says if you sell something that has been obtained criminally say a car the person who buys it when it is found can claim it back and it is up to the person who bought it from the criminals to then try and get thier money back from the courts same principle if someone has gained control of something criminally say a football club then its rightful owner then could step back in say a multi millionaire steel magnate or a wee chancer from motherwell but i cant see where that would benifit any of them but still hypothetically they could but what would be the point but there is as much an argument that the creditors should be allowed the club but again i cant see that it would be sold for much more but bdo might make as much as d&p out of putting it up for sale again and if i could make 6 million for my company i might be tempted to do anything

Clearly there is only grain of truth in original post, but amazing how many supporters think the sale CANNOT be undone, when clearly it can.

BDO NOT YET OFFICIALLY in post as liquidators and GERS not liquidated yet, this pending report on D&P conflict of interest, if this found D&P will be stripped of administrators role, and all deals done by them undone.

squeaky bum time for gers fans and Mr Green - fact not fiction.

how else can you buy £50million assets for just a loan of £8million - a loan not even cash. The purchase has huge risk attached.

Those were D&P's words, not BDOs.

Portsmouth also playing football again, but team of juniors.

and now in new on bbc as heading for liquidation it seems... :(

I wouldn't rule anything out as Charles Green said he paid all scottish club debts?Wonder why Dundee Utd issued a statement yesterday... i,ll let you guess their reply lol

At the moment all Rangers owe is the unpaid Tax from the Whyte era and that is what BDO will be concentrating on. They could recover most of that by repossessing the assets and selling to the highest bidder. The money owed for the big tax case will be recovered from the individuals. Oldco could have avoided liquidation if Mr Whyte had sold some assets and some of the big name players last January to pay what was owed at the time and given the EBT info to HMRC to chase Murray, Bazza, Klos, etc for the unpaid tax. He could then have agreed a 10 year plan to pay back any surplus. This is what I don't get. He would have got pelters and riduled but no where near as bad as now, so was it his ego, he was too dim or just too scared.

Foxy {Ed039's Note - BDO will pursue the individuals responsible, ie Whyte and Murray. This is why HMRC stated they rejected the CVA)

So you think Murray park and ibrox are worth £50m with no team playing at it?!?!

Can't believe so many of my fellow bears are so gullible and assume anybody questioning the sale must be a Celtic man and the chances of BDO overturning the sale is non existent.

BDO in themselves can't overturn the sale but they can take it to court which definitely could overturn it.

That is FACT to the numbty who says that it can't happen.

If there was no chance of this happening ask yourself this question - if that was the case why not just keep Duff & Phelps in charge of the actual liquidation of oldco?

HMRC are very suspicious about what's went on and BDO will be very dogged to find out the truth!

Last poster spot on, liquidators can recall the sale of assets through courts if they decide they where under sold. (I have first hand experience of this) this is why if your business is going to the wall you cannot sell your assets to your buddies for a fraction of what they are valued at.
(public auction isnt a legal valuation LOL)to say its all done and dusted is just dumb until BDO have done there job it wont be im afraid, i have supported Rangers all my life but i would be sticking my head in the sand not to realise this so people posting about this may not be Bhoys ;)

Simply put, if A owes money to B and sells item C to buyer D for £1, then D sells it for £100. B isnae happy and wants a chunk of the £100, i think you will find the legal term for this is tough ****

Who says the assets are valued at £120m? Coventry City was on offer 4 or 5 years ago for £30m. That included a brand new 32,000 seater stadium, a 71 room hotel, conference centre and one of Europes biggest casinos.

Its not tough ****, its illegal if liquidator thinks you sold the assets on the cheap they can persue through courts to bring back into liquidation unless they have been valued correctly before hand... im not making this up and its not a matter of opinion its the law. Now if you where a liquidator would you honestly see 2.5 million as a correct valuation of the assets in question ? maybe it is i dont know that lol ,....

Actually its fraud

Guys a quick google search will give you precedent on this very matter. it has happened before and will happen again.

in rangers case d&p only have to show how they valued the assets. if this is found to be acceptable then this issue goes away. best way for them to have done this is by using using a chartered surveyor/valuer. not by just accepting a bid to cover their costs.

but something to remember at the end of the day is the liquidator will again put the assets up for sale which then charles green could again buy. most likely over a period of time for a larger price (i personally think the 5.5 million value is fishy)

The £120m figure everyone is quoting was actually a depreciated replacement cost - it is an artificial accounting figure and bears no relation to market value.

It's like insuring your house for £1m when it's market value is only £150k.

BDO will know this.

BDO might investigate the sale process, D&Ps role, conduct, conflicts, etc, but unless they can prove another party would reasonably have paid more than £5.5m, then there can be no challenge to the sale.

Personally, I think a legal challenge to the sale is highly unlikely.

D&Ps primary and overwhelming priority is to act in the interests of the 276 creditors.
They clearly did not do that.
D&P say they charged green £2m for assets and £3m for players contracts. Green should sue for the players contracts money. TUPE unravelled that nonsense. Where is Greens lawsuits against all former players? Lol more lies. £2m for those assets is sickeningly obscene if you're a creditor.

The sale of these assets took place in the full glare of the media and the public, it was not some shady deal done behind closed doors. There were numerous interested parties and D&P took the highest offer, its over.

Time to move on to other fantasies.

14 Aug 2012 10:45:52
I read that we lost 29 players, can anyone list them Im struggling to think of all 29 of them ?

Matt_RFC

1.shagger
2.Mat Mckay
3.ortiz
4.whylde
5.mcCabe
6. Ness
7.whittaker
8. Naismith
9 adam
10 Davis
11 Healy
12 Weir
13 papac
14 aluko
15 edu
16 bedoya
17 Fleck
18 Boogie
19. Beattie
20. Bartley
21. Mcmillan
22. kerkar
23. Bendiksen

Thats my wack from players that have left from beginning off last year

Grant Adam
Allan mcgegor
Rhys McCabe
John fleck
Greg Wylde
Whittaker
Naismith
Davis
Jelavic
Healy
Aluko
Ness
Lafferty
Papac
Mary McKay
Bedoya
Edu
Kerker
Gordon dick
Bartley
Shinnie
The right back that signed with Dunfermline( can't mind name)

A can only count 15 that's including the two that left when we first went into admin shagger papac bedoya edu Naismith McCabe ness aluko fleck ****ticker Healy lafferty wylde celik there may be others plean loyal

Jordan mcmillan

24 and 25 Tom and Kim the twins wee got from Man city

I can only think of the following...

Mcgregor
Naismith
Davis
Lafferty
Healy
Whittaker
Kerkar
Papac
Bedoya
Edu (will leave)
McCabe
Ness
Adam (gk)
Celik
Wylde

I honestly cant think of anymore unless there has been youngsters leaving that never broke through to the first team.

A few under 19s left...

I think it's including players who left whole of last season, bougerra, weir....

Mcgregor
whittaker
weir
papac
aluko
davis
mccabe
ness
wylde
celik
healy
lafferty
jelavic
naismith
grant adam
jordan mcmillan
john fleck
kerkar
bedoya
bartley
matt mckay
thomas bendiksen
gordon dick
tom skogsrud
kim skogsrud

thats 25 since january

Jelavic, wylde, celik, ortiz, mcgregor, weir, papac, davis, fleck, lafferty, naismith, healy, whittaker, aluko, mckay, bedoya, bartley, mcmillan, kerkar, ness, bendiksen, mccabe, adam, 2 norwegian twins, rest youngsters

Unfortunately Broadfoot wasn't one of them

Jelavic
mckay
skoskrud
mcmillan
bedoya
naismith
mcgregor
aluko
celik
whylde
mcabe
whitaker
davis
lafferty
adam
healy
12 youth players

Adam
naismith
whitaker
davis
lafferty
bartley
mcabe
ness
mckay
papac
mcgeogh
wilson
healy
mcgregor
fleck
skoskrud
skosgrud(twins)
aluko
ortiz
kerkar
celik
bedoya
wylde
weir
diouf
bougherra
beattie
mcmillan
shinnie
bendisken
jelavic
weiss
rangers players who have left since start of 2011/12 season


rangers players who have came in since start of 2011/12 season

bocanegra
wallace
goian
bedoya(left)
mckay(left)
ortiz(left)
aluko(left)
celik(left)