Rangers Rumours Archive March 12 2012

12 Mar 2012 23:26:30
how much cash would it take (including 49 million tax case)for rangers to be debt free?any rough estimates?

Even if it WAS 49 million only who in their right mind would foot that bill?

They guess around 90million .Paul Clark keeps saying a lot of creditors .We only know a few

Total worst case scenario as far as i can make out, not saying much, is 75M for big tax, 9M for paye etc, 24M ticketus about 108M altogether. there is probably more. i believe MIH are carrying another 70M of rangers' debt but i dont know how that pans out. where did it all go ? no idea. when you look at celtic over that period they also rebuilt their stadium and carried the cost of lost gate income. since they completed their stadium i believe that they have been taking 10M a year more than rangers at the gate and have come out more or less debt free. they havent got a great team but their market value is way beyond anything rangers have got. any rangers players catching the eye of other clubs will be picked off like plums from a tree. it also means that rangers league titles under SDM were among the most expensive in europe. what was it all about ? so if the rangers fans want to pay that debt off, it will make rangers the most expensive club in the world to support and all for something nobody outside scotland gives a toss about. however if the club goes bust and comes out debt free that way, then we have another record, the most scandalised club in europe. suddenly ordinary folk in scotland are discussing raising tens of millions to repay money given to millionaires. how did it come to that?

Differs could be from over 90 million pounds to 136 million these are figures i have heard been quoted

Tax case...rangers may well win it.Or it is a split decision with some liability.Figure of �49 million likely liability by timposters wildly inaccurate and grossly overstated....as has been hinted at strongly by those in dialogue with HMRC..but hey they must be lying,eh?

I think I will believe the Administrator's analysis rather than the 'expert' amateur timposters, totally obsessed by all things connected to the Rangers

OK, ill take my esitmates from reliable sources.

Hello ed what figure do you have on rangers total debt including hmrc ticketus any idea ? and any hidden debts running costs legal fees {Ed001's Note - I haven't looked into it, there are too many figures flying around, with no real way of knowing which are correct without access to the accounts.}

And the administrators analysis on what rangers debt adds up to is??duff n phelps havent a clue what the outcome of the big tax case is,and if found guilty duff n phelps havent a clue what the penalty will be either,perhaps they are lying.

We were told it was �18m before whyte (minus big tax bill) so �9-15m for the tax vat and ni since then but cant see it being the figure quoted here unless some were hidden from whyte

Sunday post last week stated the debt could stand at 90-100m. then of course there is a matter of the playing squad which would require 20-30m+

How can anyone put in a bid to buy a club in 2 days time when even the administrators do not know the value of the debt?

The current agreed tax is �15m and ticketus is �24.4m. So start with �39.4m plus interests. Then theres the big tax case over �50m and then all the smaller creditors; SPL teams, strathclyde police, utility bills, council tax (2 sites),......
The huge indebtedness is only one problem. The immediate issue is there is no money to pay the bills/ wages. Ally and Walter have been roped in to raise funds from fans. This won't make a dent and may only pay salaries for Duff and Phelps, who are now a big financial part of the problem.

Yeah ,ticketus are real reliable, the first administration not to sack anyone and dont even bother saying about retaining sellability coz thats not an admins job

Any main buyer is not going to want fans sitting on a board telling him how to run the club, The main guys are waiting for liquidation, then they will move, wait and see.

Right now, there is no debt to Ticketus!! As it stands they are due money from the Season ticket, which aren't on sale yet. They are due approx �9m per season from the sale of tickets. The main debt is to HMRC which stands @ �9-�15m. There is also the debts due to other clubs, security, police, suppliers etc. The big Tax case will hopefully be covered within a CVA along with all the other debts. As for D&P not knowing the debt figure - they will know EXACTLY what is owed. Just coz they haven't told the media, doesn't mean they don't know!!

If we get 200,000 Gers Fans willing to input 600 each some can take more than one option then you have 120 million. Foootball clubs dont run on profit we need a new structure and Budget control

200,000 rangers fans, this guys talkin pish!

With the �24m owed to ticktus and the �18m debt plus the �49m tax case, so around the �90 million mark, I can't honestly see someone buying the club and taking care of thedebt

I posted a link last week to a site called football finances, they have all the accounts for for all the spl clubs going way back. The last entry i could see was in 2010, for both celtic and rangers this site warns about overspending in pursuit of european success. Now u guys can check this but they state that rangers have made a loss of about 170million since 2001. i think it averaged at 12-13million a season. Ithink they suggest that David Murray was propping rangers up with his and MIH money. This wasnt an issue until 2008 when lloyds became involved with all Murrays companies. It was lloyds who appointed martin bain etc. To be honest guys a cant remeber all the facts and figures but it makes interesting reading on both celtics and rangers finances. Hope u guys find the site and find some of the stuff on there interesting. Lists directors salaries, how much spent on players, how much brought in in players sales, impact of europe money etc

Actually ticketus is owed 40M. they gave rangers 24.4 M in return for 40M worth of season tickets. so they get 16M profit and interest on the deal. the 24.4M figure being bandied about was the loan figure.

12 Mar 2012 20:16:57
I never heard all the press confrence on Friday .But Hugh keevins said he asked the administrator if this means rangers will not go into liquidation .And he said you can never rule it out .

Mr timmy keevins ego is starting to really bug me. He thinks he has all the answers and is constantly belittling the callers. besides he is last person u should listen to, he only deals in celtic goings on.

It must be plain to everone and his dog that liquidation is just a matter of time.
But because this means a lot of money written off by a lot of creditors, there is a lot of reluctance to admit what is categorically obvious

Hugh keevins wasnt at the there. he was on the radio at super scoreboard

Mr timmy keevins haha, the man who said celtic wouldnt win the league then when we went on top denied it.
He is a d*** and everyone knows it.

Spew Keevins is a joke with his irritating nasal voice. He's thriving on what he thinks is our demise so I for one hope we bounce back stronger than ever as nothing would irritate him more!

Regardless about Keevins, it is LIQUIDATION.

Explain. What is categorically obvious then? How is liquidation imminent?

D&P are putting on the brave face but they need a buyer ASAP to pour millions into Rangers. They have no cash. The March wage bill and utilities, has, electric, telephones, computers, licenses, police, council tax, ..... Will tip rangers into Liquidation. AEG will then get Ibrox cheap. Cala homes will get Mutray park cheap.

12 Mar 2012 18:25:09
I've just heard from one of Steven Naismiths close friends that he is in talks with Blackpool and West Brom and could possibly join one of them at the end of the season. Naisy thinks he's most likely to join Blackpool although he wants to stay with the Gers I sure hope so!

Naisys better than joining blackpOol

Your having a laugh, I know this is a rumours page but thats the funniest thing I've heard in months.
Billy dale bear

Someone posted this the other day,almost word for word!
Don't really know why i'm responding to this, oh wait a mo' it's to say your talking pish! Stevie-A-Bear

Your talking nonsense mate.

Aye and hes going to glenbuck cherrypickers too he.l be there next year gers that is doug

Your close mate but you misheard slightly. My wifes best mate's cousin is married to the next door neighbour of a guy who sat next to Naisy at the traffic lights on Friday. What Naisy actually said was 'since my pay cut I won't be going to Bahamas this year, looks like I'll be off to Blackpool for a week.

Whatever no one is bigger than the club

If he goes it will be to the PREMIRSHIP

If we can't keep Naismith what calibre of player are we realistically looking at? David Healy our best player?

Erm no one can talk to naismith unless he is in the last 6 months of his contract. other than that he is under contract and he cant be aproached by ther clubs.

According to D&P there are new clauses added to contracts of the biggest value players regarding CWhyte - so no reason - these NEW Contracts are not in there final 6 month period - or that they prevent players taking to anyother club...

New contracts - this why it took days to complete. Devil is in the detail.

Blackpool can't afford to pay Robbie Fowler a wage! They're hardly gonna match Naisy's Gers wages! If he goes it'll be to the Prem {Ed001's Note - they could easily afford it, they have millions in the bank, they just don't pay huge money, they live well within their means.}

" If we can't keep Naismith what calibre of player are we realistically looking at ? "

Which part of overspending for a decade do you not understand ? Rangers wages are gauged to qualify for the group stages of the CL every year, when they fail as in 2011 they lose 10 million.

Any new owner's business plan will not be to break even if they qualify for the group stages of the CL.

12 Mar 2012 14:03:06
Looks like the Murray consortium will fail. I certainly hope so as I just don't believe he has the clout to make this work. I believe we would remain weak for too long.

However I have no clue as to who is interested..........a long wait with a rocky road still ahead I think.

For me it's no to Murray.

GDog
WATP

Sorry to put a dampner on your hopes but just sit back and think.
SDM was trying to sell the club for now on 4 years well before the sh*t hit the fan.
What makes you think that now when almost evetything is in the open and the scenery not to nice some rich guy/company/consortium/whatever is going to come flying through the clouds and sort everything out.
Where were these people the last 4 years

Is he trying to get the club on the cheap? Having seen off Whyte (almost) surely the last thing the club needs is another chancer.

And what do you base this theory on.

Das Shadow

G-Dog I don't know where you have your info that it is going 2 fail & I have no reason 2 question your info but reading quotes from the 3 main supporters groups they seem 2 think we are on the correct path with murray & his backers so lets see what happens
NTYABOW

Investors are interested in the club due to a CVA hopefully being agreed. That way the clubs debts are laid out in B&W for any investor to scrutinise. Also the value of the debt will be greatly reduced. The CVA would also include provision for the Big Tax Case - therefore making it a mush sweeter investment opportunity!!

I agree Gdog, I take my hat of to Paul Murray for attempting to save us but I just don't think he has the money needed, sorry to ask again ed but any joy with ed002 finding out more mate?
PaulRFC {Ed001's Note - only that AEG are seriously interested and that Murray simply isn't believed to have anything like the money required.}

Are we not all in agreement that murray doesnt have the money? Hence why a consortium has been put together!

With the names been mentioned today and the possibility of other like minded people looking to be part of the deal it seems like a goer in my eyes! Or is everyone just so negative these days?

I can't understand why AEG are interested, I really can't. Central Scotland is over subscribed with stadia/ arena venues....Hampden, Celtic park, SECC, concert hall, Murrayfield, etc ......
T in the park is the biggest annual draw in Scotland and it'll never be at Ibrox unless tens of thousands of kids can pitch their tents on the park and pee everywhere.

Anything that relies on fan money won't work. The fans just don't have enough to make a dent in this debt.

Murray is simply spearheading this - he doesn't personally have the cash - how many clubs actually have one single owner like abramovic. it is usually a powerful consortium. the names being banded - three or four having been named already in the press now is very interesting and very possible indeed. It remains a very complicated process as you would expect but this set up could provide for something very powerful. and if there are two or three other possibilities in the background then that's encouraging too. The chat I am reading about "why would anyone buy gers now when they could only find whyte previously" is very naive (no disrespect). that chat is coming from people who know nothing about company purchases, debt relinquishment, CVA's, the risk HMRC face from a liquidation situation. Let's just give it a chance.

Sorry people we are all wasting our time here there is absolutely NO WAY we can avoid liquidation.We are in an impossible situation and the key in the door is the only way out. Have you any idea how much D&P have to be paid? Could be anything up to �10m.Someone would need to chuck in about �60m(assuming deal was done with HMRC) just to get started. It ain't gonna happen!

Anything that relies on stadia performances won't work either, the SPL is the biggest income for stadia performances in Scotland and its a low income that cannot be improved upon..... Fans don't have money and they're over paying for the quality they're receiving. U get to see Spanish giants for less in Spain! We're already overcharged.

AEG are serious are they ed mate? That's quality to hear, their guy anshultz or whatever is minted and it could open up tv deals over there, would his or their interest be part down to Johnstone do you think ed?
PaulRFC {Ed001's Note - I think it is more down to his desire to own the stadium and the opportunity having arisen.}

Just a thought here guys if rangers are sold what happens to whytes shares hope im wrong but I have afeeling he wont go empty handed. also dont like the sound of far eastern bids as blackburn and birmingham fans would back up

Previous post starting with 'murray is simply spearhead' is spot on i think. i beleive it is probably easier to purchase rangers now they are in admin than what it was under SDM. its
(hopefully) all out in the open now. more transparant who we owe and how much. remember Tom Hunter i think twice tried and failed to buy rangers from SDM.

As much as i'd like AEG i just don't beleive we would be that fortunate. Hope i'm wrong.

Stadia are white elephants in Scotland. Hampden and Murrayfield were built by and operated by Government money. The taxpayer funds them to millions every year.
There's no business returns from such things in Scotland.

AEG - An American company is never going to buy an old firm team with inherent sectarian problems they have.

To hot to handle.

In a CVA or liquidation, Whyte's shares would be worthless. There is an outstanding question about security on a loan which some believe Whyte owns but there are strong reasons why he shouldn't benefit from that (not least because he paid off Lloyds with Ticketus money not his own).

The inescapable conclusion about stadia is that Rangers would be better off sharing with Celtic or renting Hampden (which maybe shouldn't exist but that's another arguement).

12 Mar 2012 11:47:58
To all the numpties who ridiculed my post yesterday.the record has named one of the guys I was talking about as one of the blue knights consortium.so we'll wait and see if the other guy's mentioned later in the week.also just a note on the ebt case.hmrc are duty bound to recover any money that is owed.agreed.so if rangers are liquidated they get heehaw.that is why they are trying to work out adeal with rangers.the reason they never accepted a deal last may was because rangers we not in admin with the prospect of being liquidated.the goal post have moved hence the deal.you are all deluded if you think a deal is not being discussed.remember hmrc wasted millions of taxpayers money chasing 250,000 from harry redknap and lost!!!

Which name did you mention ? Not Douglas Park I hope, his name has been around for a while.

Keep dreaming go to Scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com and read taxcase and forming a newco! Ticketus ain,t joining any consortium,the taxman ain,t doin any deals and if ye actually read Paul Murray is a former director under not fit and proper criteria.So we are back to Duff and Phelps propaganda machine buying time till another wee court case regarding d&f bein fit administrators by FSA this week.Delusion and illusion time again.

HMRC have a policy of NOT agreeing to CVA's so how do Rangers expect to get of administration?
HMRC will NOT do a deal. Look at it this way, if HMRC did a deal then it would set the precedent to other businesses to avoid paid taxes altogether then settling 10% of the total when they are eventually caught.

Face facts and the fact is that the blue knights consotium will never have a bid accepted on the basis that the CVA will not bee agreed by HMRC thus preventing the club from exiting admininstration.

Incidentally if you are basing the outcome of the big tax case on Harry Redknap's case then you are a total moron.

I think you are deluded my friend.HMRC embarrassed themselves with vodaphone and a few other companies recently they will not allow that to happen again also Mr Redknap was an individual not a company

The difference is that the Rangers case is not being tried by a Jury who don't want to bang up the next england manager.

HMRC don't care if a football team are LIQUIDATED for not paying taxes. Their mission is to take a big scalp to scare the others and clean up the sector.
HMRC are currently moving to liquidate Port Vale for �750,000.
HMRC cannot allow to be seen to reward tax evasion with pennies in the pound agreements. That just encourages more tax evasion by everyone. 'oh we'll just do a deal with Hector in 3 years for 10% in the meantime, directors snouts in the trough boys, swill up!'....

Total nonsense.HMRC can demand,even to a liquidated company,ALL assets are sold and creditors paid.What the bleedin hell do you think liquidation means? Walk away and say tough to the creditors?

Everyone above bang on as i said read Scotslawthoughts.wordpress and they,ll soon explode any myths on liquidation!Correct creditors and taxman can still chase any newco so pay yer taxes and debts or you,ll be ground sharing wi Partick Thistle at best.

Quite right m8.at last somebody talking sense 4 a change.what do you think about aeg[shot in the dark.

Clearly HMRC will do a deal.
but Its still grim if we only pay 20%

Hmrc dont do deals wake up

I can't believe bears think 80-90% of their tax deBt is going to gently whisper away in the wind. But then again, same folks believed Murray and Whyte, and that Ally would be a good manager.

12 Mar 2012 10:54:50
www.redblackrangers.com

get one now! This is the site Coisty
and Smith are promoting.

J

Thot that was the one frm a couple of Gers fans who approached the RSA or RST or something? Coisty and Walt behind the RFFF, Rangers fans fighting fund. Either way I"LL be backing both of them to save the club I love

Why is the scarf black and red

Ive purchased mine! All proceeds go to bu tickets for home games which are then given to local schools and charities!!

No it is not.

McCoist, Smith and Jardine are promoting RFFF

Why people arguing? Just buy 1 n support your club!

What have rangers already got the colours for a newco, where is the blue?

I say again while it`s a good idea, a Rangers scarf must have blue. From the second game we ever played we have been " the light blues"!
Jim

If they made it blue and white, no 1 would buy it as they already have 1 so changed colours! just buy 1 and stop complaining about small little things!

It's black and red to reflect the original colours of Govan - which is why the Rangers socks are black and red. All the info is on the website though.

12 Mar 2012 10:29:15
Last weeks hold up was caused by naismith wanting a guarantee of a free transfer at the end of the season or he was not going to accept a 75% wage cut.problem was solved by shagger telling him in no uncertain terms how ungrateful he was since all the time he has been out injured shagger did not miss him fact

Source>?

well everyone else asks for one, ?

BluePeter

Can't blame any of the player looking for a get out clause, nobody really knows what the outcome will be in next few months Craig Whyte might be back yet and Naisy stuck with 75% cut and have play under Whyte regime, McGregor is a proven idiot make him captain campaign is a no no none of the current crop of player that have been a disgrace on the park this season deserve captaincy!

Crap ! Wee naisy is a true bluenose, shaffer as you put it isn't naisy only asked to have a clause in that if whyte come back he gets a free! Same as shagger, Davis,lafferty and whitaker ! Fact

Naisy has said there was no danger of the players not accepting 75% and they are all good fees men. This completely differs from Ally's statements before the agreement and his worries of redundancies and he wasn't going to tell them the news and wait out the door and give support, etc.....
So the players were keeping their true gers position from Ally and causing worry?
I know who I believe, I believe Ally.

You should be careful of which rumours you believe, unless Naisy or McGregor tells you.

I would be shocked if this was the case, indeed I simply don't believe it, don't believe a Gers fan would post it either.

12 Mar 2012 10:06:34
Motoring tycoon Douglas Park and London-based duo John Bennett and Scott Murdoch are backing the Blue Knights.